You're right though I don't understand it. I think Andrews has been a better performer for Ireland for the past while nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
You're right though I don't understand it. I think Andrews has been a better performer for Ireland for the past while nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
This was the team:-
Given, O'Shea, Dunne, St. Ledger, Kilbane, Green, Whelan (Gibson 66), Lawrence (Long 62), McGeady, Keane, Doyle (Fahey 71).
Subs not used: Westwood, McShane, Keogh, Cunningham.
And the Italy team:
Republic of Ireland: Forde, McShane, Ward, St. Ledger, O'Dea, Foley, Coleman, Andrews, Hunt, Long, Keogh
Subs: Murphy, Kelly, Cox, Delaney, Whelan, Lawrence, Treacy
Trap needs to stop making these public utterances as they don't help, but cause anomosity. He should have learnt from the last McCarthy furore.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-2670079.html
I don't think there's anything wrong with what Trap said there. He wants them to answer his calls. He's the one holding the olive branch, not them. Not like he's saying they have to come back begging for their places. He just wants them to answer their phones.
I don't think they have a pre-ordained ranking of our forwards, after Doyle & Keane. It's horses for courses.
Long's day will come and probably sooner rather than later. Cox has more experience now* so whoever comes in for either of our main two will be able to do a job.
wrt Noble, O'Hara etc. Stuff them. It's too late to declare. The dressing room is a strong and united place right now. The "stay aways" have their chance to come back in, but there's no room for any more. Guys like Meyler and McCann could play their way in, but no late-deciders.
I think Andrews is nailed on to start, certainly against Russia. If he watched the Russia DVD he'll see that Whelan must have been on tranquilisers and Green couldn't do his own job, let alone the job of two. Andrews may not be Pele, but he snaps at ankles and is hard to play through. He is very athletic too, so covers the ground well. Against Slovakia, Trap may well go for a better passer like Fahey or Gibson.
However, a lot will depend on who is match fit. Last October I don't think any of Whelan, Fahey, Andrews or Gibson was starting for their club. Nor was Given, Keane and one or two others.
*edit: what I mean is that he has more experience than he did a month ago, not more experience than Long.
I agree. He's absolutely right.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaFox
The point I am making is that while what he says makes sense, such public utterances can lead to miscommunication and crossed wires. We have seen this in the past and the last thing we need are players feeling they are being targeted.
Not tageted as such, but you know the fingers-to-eyes gesture that Robert de Niro does do Ben Stiller in "Meet the Parents"? That's what Trap is doing, and on everyone's behalf. I don't think much more should be made of it but Trap says he'll be getting in touch with everyone to ask if they're in, and to spell out that he requires responses to his and/or Mary at the FAI's texts and calls.
The worrying thing was that The Irish Times has quoted Trap as saying he'll be doing this by text!
If I was one of thoese players I'd be heading over to Dublin for the Croatia game no matter how 'injured' I was. I'd also make sure my iphone was on. NO MORE EXCUSES. If they want to make the plane for Poland/Ukraine (if we qualify, which is a big if) then they need to buck their ideas up.
There was a good bit of talk over in Skopje that Cox had been flying all week. This had come from one or two in the squad to one or two well placed fans. Cox was on fire all week, and was getting everyone hopping - infectious was one of the phrases used.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Shane Long is a star in the making, he's still relatively young and he will develop into a fine striker. But he's had a ridiculous season, and if he was on a bit of a downer after the playoff final, that was totally understandable. As it turns out "We love Cox" had a decent game (I was surprised how little was mentioned of his intelligent use of the knock down in the first half) and should have had a debut competitive goal (only when I got back home did I realise the goal was good). If we didn't get the three points, it wouldn't have been because of Cox.
If i was any of the 4 players, and especially McCarthy and Gibson, i'd be making myself unavailable for selection until Trappatoni was ousted. Results against NI, Scotland, Wales and Macedonia are hardly world-shaking news. Italy was a useless, end-of-season nothing game.
I'm not sure he is Noely. I think the circumstances around these games helped his cause no end. For a few reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
- The weather expected for Saturday was extremely humid - it was sticky but nowhere near as bad as it could have been. A fresher Cox definitely had the edge over a weary Longy in that respect.
- He definitely impressed during the Nations Cup. He had a decent rapport with Robbie
- His attitude (allegedly) extremely impressed both the management and the squad from the moment he arrived. Buzzing to play and eager to take whatever chances came his way. Unfortunately Longy probably arrived on a bit of a downer.
- Personally I felt Longy has been better being sprung from the bench ala Russia. I've no doubt he'll feature prominently in the new season.
To me, it would be a massive surprise if he starts Cox with Keane, not ahead of Long, but ahead of Doyle. That would be criticism worthy. Doyle offers something, and has done for a while that nobody has come close to doing since Quinn went au revoir. He is a totem up top, and works his nads off, all the while with an impressive skill set.Quote:
It would not be a huge surprise to me if Keane and Cox line out against Slovakia.
In our eyes perhaps, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have eyes on Walters too. They seemed to be at pains to get the media to mention that Walters was genuinely absent and there was no problem.Quote:
Long is now probably fourth choice forward.
It's something that I'd use as a stick to beat him with though. International managers have to be pragmatic to an extent. Obviously he doesn't do it to spite himself, but there is more merit to returning Walters and say, Gibbo, than there is Stokes or Wilson. Wilson is covered potentially by a fit Cunningham, Ward, even Ciaran Clark. Stokes is competing with Robbie and probably Long. So there's no real need there.Quote:
And thats why I would not rule out the selection of the "gang of four" for the Croatia friendly. Things can change rapidly under Trap.
I hear what you're saying. I agree too. He has to have realised that he was out-thought in Lansdowne. We're probably in a slightly unfortunate situation where our players that are first choice, don't really fit the system he needs to play to maximise the chances of 1/3 points in Moscow. Russia have/had a really fluid 5 behind what will surely be Pavlyuchenko. Shiranov, Zyrianov and Denisov totally ran amok. Shemsov is equally decent, and I wouldn't be surprised if Billy features for them in Sept. So how to stop them controlling the game deep in our half is what is key.Quote:
As of today most fans would predict Trap starting Whelan and Andrews against Slovakia and Russia. I don't think he will. I'm just not sure who will come in if either Whelan or the more likely Andrews is "rested". I bet Trap has been watching dvd's of the home Russia defeat over and over again. He will look at who played, how they played and what went wrong. And he will not want a repeat performance. The Irish squad for the Croatia game will be very interesting.
Wouldn't surprise me if Trap goes extremely narrow limiting the space in the middle, forcing Russia to play totally around us, rather than through and then out the back of us. How does he do that? Does he sacrifice the wingers? McGeady has to play because for all his faults, he is genuinely getting to a level now where he draws fouls to the level Duff was at, while he is more than capable of running deep at opponents with the ball, creating opportunities for others.
If he is to jettison the wingers, then surely he has to pick somewhat attacking full-backs, Ward and Coleman, or full backs capable of using the ball sufficiently in the middle and top 3rd - Foley and Clark perhaps? Which leads on to the next possibility - the use of John O'Shea or Kev Foley as a shield behind a midfield three or two?
Something like:
---------------------------Given--------------------------
FB-------------Dunne---------------Ledger-------------Fb
---------------------------Shield--------------------------
--------------------Andrews-------Whelan-----------------
----------------McGeady------------Keane----------------
---------------------------Doyle--------------------------
Something that has to be remembered about Dublin - we started like a train, could have been one up, and then absolutely gifted them a goal (Whatever about Whelan being blindsided, Given was totally at fault to begin with), which then allowed them to dictate the next hours football.
Point taken, but technically I was referring to the end of season games, where will I'm sure they're still injured, surely they get some sort of a break from treatment also.Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
Training during the season does continue for PL squads from what I've read - it's curtailed for sure, but doesn't stop.
There's a lot of accuracies there. I'm equally adept at criticising a players performance, but it has to be said, we were out of shape against Russia. Whelan hadn't featured much for Stoke, and was barely fit. Green to give him his credit was all over the place trying to win the ball, but (and it's been commented on before) the indiscipline in breaking the line of two is what allowed Whelan to be isolated. Whelan could be termed pedestrian at the best of times, but this added to his lack of match fitness left him badly exposed. That cannot be ignored, otherwise it's just poor analysis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
What I like about Andrews is, pardon the vulgarity, there's a bit of a cúnt about him. not in the Joey Barton sense, but that he's prepared to be in the opposition faces as much as possible while staying the right side of the law. He got to a new level of respect with me for his affront on Diarra in Dublin, but rose up a notch by outdoing himself in Paris.
Zhirkov ran the show for Russia against Armenia on Saturday, especially in the second half. Everything went through him. Not beyond the bounds Trapatooni could stick Steven Hunt on him. That might mean sacrificing a winger or just playing Robbie up front on his own but I can see Trap doing something like that.
How can you break a line of two? :)
Zhirkov is a fine player. Given the room he could hurt us. The same could equally be said about McGeady or Duff. A feature of the Macedonia selection was Hunt on the right and McGeady on the left. All seemed to agree that this was in order for the player to cut in on the favoured boot and shoot/cross. I don't believe it was for that reason at all, even though it was a good aspect as it so happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
Popov was one of three star Macedonian players, their left full. Their right back, was a second choice centre half. Playing McGeady on the right and Hunt on the left would have been a mistake - limiting us going forward, while exposing us at the back. McGeady isn't as good at tracking back as Hunt, a valid criticism. Hunt himself was criticised for his handling of Popov in the first half, but he didn't do a whole lot wrong, he tracked Popov's runs, forced him infield, and generally made a nuisance of himself - he just did a better job of it the second half.
As for McGeady, well he minced the right full time and again. So we got the best of both worlds.
then the merits have to be discussed. If we had to play one person up front, which would that one player be. If it's Robbie, then we sacrifice everything about his game to basically run around and put pressure on.
By drawing one of the two out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
:-)
For all the talk of the Italy win being a nothing win, I can't help but think if we had lost this "nothing" game, as we did against Australia, the press and fans would be all over Trapattoni for ruining the good run built up in the previous three games.
Completely agree. I have a feeling life at Wolves will have softened O'Hara's cough though and he'll be looking to declare during the new season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Mick McCarthy's been urging him to declare as well: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...reland?cc=5739Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
Not sure how comfortable I'd be with him coming in and taking the place of a regular and committed squad member at this point given he obviously views us as a fall-back.Quote:
Originally Posted by McCarthy
I agree, but I'd always but up for giving him a chance. Let these players prove their commitment after they declare if they're good enough. Problem is he'd have to understand he'd be at the very back of the queue, and would have to wait for an opportunity. He might get called up to a couple of squads for instance, and not get a game. Or maybe just get five minutes ala Wilson or Delaney. And I'm not convinced O'Hara would have the commitment/patience necessary to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
I love Mick and if Mick likes him then that's good enough for me. I'd say he'll wait until we qualify or not before declaring though. He seems the sort.
Hmm, Mick's gut-test over Stutts' gut-test? Controversial.
If any player can come in and add to the squad then I'm all for it.
Stutts' gut would be more tolerant of a quality central midfielder than a late declarer in any other position. It would still have an issue, but nothing Milk of Magnesia mightn't sort out.
To be honest I used to be a lot more on the moral high horse side of things a few years ago and would have 100% said no straight up to the likes of O'Hara and Zat Knight etc.
But since 1994, we have had 7 qualification campaigns and been successful in only one of them. There have been so many glorious failures, so many play-off defeats, so many so near but yet so far moments and the simple fact is our squad has just been short of the quality required for qualification to these tournaments. If O'Hara, Pennant, Nolan, Noble etc improve our squad, despite their motivations, lets be having them. Lets be honest here, Liam Lawrence would have had equally as much desire to play for England as a kid and only decided to play for Ireland when he realised the possibility of him representing England was no longer on the cards. The only difference between him and the other named players is that he never outwardly expressed those thoughts.
I guess I'm a sell out, but I'm a sell out that wants to see us qualify for and compete at tournaments, and if these players can add to the chances of achieving that objective then I'm all for them.
O'Hara wouldn't temp me. That would be as grubby as a Bertie Aherne brown paper bag.
But for the sake of my country and only that, I'd turn a blind eye to a midfielder who meets Stutts' standards.
O' Hara IMO would be a great addition. He is creative, works hard and has the potential to be a leader. Put him together with Meyler and we have a midfield that can eventually replace Whelan and Andrews. As I have posted recently on another thread, Trap needs to get players onboard to increase our resources and be careful of his public utterances. Unity not division in the ranks is essential as we continue the Euro Campaign and start to think about a squad for the next World Cup.
I'm still convinced Trapatonni goes public for a reason. He went public on Keane and Given not too long ago about the need for both players to be playing first team football. In Keane's case he went a little further suggesting younger players might come through. Keane plays one of his best games for Ireland last Saturday and Given has an excellent game as well. Maybe Gibson, McCarthy, Wilson and Walters will come back even better players when the new season restarts. The English game particulary rewards the mediocre like no other league and it is almost unique for a manager to go criticising his own players in public. Perhaps we need more of that not less.
Just came across this blog piece written by Cathal Dervin on the "no-shows" before the Macedonia game: http://www.irishcentral.com/story/sp...122936358.html
He makes a few sweeping assumptions though.
I think that's entirely unfair on all those latter players, especially Walters, and barring maybe Stokes, to single them out for criticism that isn't even based on fact. He goes on to accuse them of treachery which should neither forgiven or forgotten...Quote:
There’s a load of them missing by the way. Some have genuine excuses -- Richard Dunne is suspended and Damien Duff, Keiren Westwood and Kevin Doyle are all genuinely injured.
Others have claimed injuries without having them checked out by the Irish team doctor, notably Jonathon Walters.
And then there’s the no-shows, the players like Anthony Stokes, Marc Wilson, James McCarthy and, now, Darron Gibson who just didn’t make it.
Between guff like that and 20 page 'who shot JR!?' threads (elsewhere), I say start the new season this weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathal Dervin
Some great posts in this thread lads, interesting stuff.
I am no expert on how Russia line out but to me this type of formation wouldnt suit us one bit. Russia will have the lions share of the ball in Moscow, they have technically gifted players out wide and will be more than happy to make use of the abundance of space we would give them out there. Resulting in us being stretched out wide in order to put the tackles in / gain possession and hey presto we are back to a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 formation anyway. You say you wouldnt be surprised but I am assuming you are only talking hypothetcially anyway as Trap will not be moving away from the 4-4-2 anytime soon and certainly not in a game of this importance. If we do beat Slovakia in Dublin - This game will be absolutely massive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
On the other issue, any player worth his salt will now personally speak with Trappatoni to confirm his attendance or communicate his non-attendance. Regardless of what your club spokesman or medical staff say they were going to do, you would just do it yourself, in case. Its what I would do anyway.
What if by some chance we win the next two qualifiers and we won the group to qualify for Euro 2012. O'Hara, Nolan etc might declare then. Would you be in favor of calling them up or stick with the likes of Andrews etc who got us there?Quote:
Originally Posted by French Toasht
I don't mind taking on someone with an Irish Granny hidden somewhere but not if they are taking their sweet time over it. These guys have had ample time to declare already. If it means not qualifying then so be it.
i am a great believer in squad morale. when keane was gone from wc 2002 look at how our two ctre mids played above themselves and we got to the last 16 and should have made the 1/4 finals. bringing in late-comers who have spent an age thinking about joining us could have the opposite affect and ruin the hard fought squad morale we have recently acquired. i dont think we need oharaQuote:
Originally Posted by Metrostars
Just to be certain on Nolan; he confirmed relatively recently that he doesn't actually qualify for us. He spoke about being a generation out or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metrostars
Off topic but lets say we make Euro. What players likely would retire from Int'l play after the Tourney? Is it possible Dunne, Keane, Given, Duff, and maybe O'Shea will all need to be replaced at the same time? Obviously KK will be out by then also.
Hopefully some of these guys get their heads screwed on straight so we have options to replace them with if that were to happen, especially throwing injuries into the mix.
jaysus it would be a disaster to lose the 6 of them at the same time
i cant see any bar kilbane leaving after this campaign and id say he'd need to be pushed. but they will be goin sooner rather than later hopefully new leaders will emerge
Putting myself in their boots, if there's a World Cup happening in Brazil in less than two years and I've either played in just one previously or never tasted that experience...I'm not thinking about retirement just yet. I want to pack it in after the third place playoff in Rio. ;) But who knows what these guys are planning or who and what might emerge in the interim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
I'd like to think that Shay, the eldest, will see fit to partake in some of that longevity that keepers enjoy. Ala Seaman in '02 but minus the Brazilian cross/shot flying over his aged head. Hopefully Robbie will be along while records remain to be broken. Of the five, I'd consider him irreplaceable though. Unless we're incredibly fortunate, I doubt some kid with the capacity for 50+ international goals is gonna share the revolving door with him on his way out. Whereas right now you could tentatively suggest that (for example) McGeady and Clark have at least the potential to inherit the mantles of Duff and Dunne respectively.
I don't see any of those retiring after Euro 2012. Simple as that.