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I chose Labour but its unlikely that there will be a labour candidate in the Cavan/Monaghan area this time around. I give everyone a tick too in the same hope that my transfers might just influence something but forever FF have gotten my last. I even put SF ahead of them coz even though it kills me from a "blood on their hands" type stand point, Caomhingh O'Caolain is a decent guy whom I worked closely with in regard to refugee issues and he does his best for us.
They're not supporting it. They'll vote against the parts of it they don't support and introduce amendments etc. What has happened is that the parties have wiped other business from the agenda and debate this bill only.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Oh, and don't forget that SF voted for the bank guarantee.
Magicme, you're right about Kevin, he's a good guy who is good locally, but even better nationally. He was, when there were debates about the bail out, one of the only ones who had done his homework. I have great time for the man and he is widely respected. I gave (and will give) my first preference to Sinn Fein because the most likely candidate in my area (I'll be coming home to vote) is a man who is genuinely good. Unless Mary Lou comes in again, which would make sense but she's probably not going to. Anything to get rid of Lenihan the bluffer, Varadkar the idiot and maybe get Joe Higgins back in. It'd be a miracle to have a 1-2-3 of Donnelly, Higgins and Burton. The latter pairing would add genuine debate to the Dail, while Donnelly would be positive. But the halfwits will turn out in force and it'll be Lenihan, Varadkar and Burton. Nobody will learn, we all will lose.
Are you sure about that, always seem against these kind of things?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Yes, I'm sure about that. Only Labour opposed it.
Apparently this actually came up on the Frontline last night and while Mary Lou McDonald denied it, the programmes researchers checked the Dail record and proved that they had.
Edit: Dail record for the vote record for the vote: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/20...00029.asp#N263
And never forget that about half of our supposed current deficit is bloody interest for the bank bailout caused by the guarantee, and was the direct cause of the IMF intervention, for all the "living beyond our means" guff. We were, and are, doing ok at getting spending and income balanced if you take associated bank bailout interest out of the equation. The blanket guarantee is what sank us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Have to say still undecided after listening to a lot of the parties various spokespeople. Would be worried by Gilmore coming out in support of the Croke Park deal so dont think I will vote Labour. FG seem to be just the "not" Fianna Fail party. will see...
Why, the IMF seem happy with it? Problem is this Government not bothering to implement it rather than the deal itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
John Mulvihill, the Labour candidate from Cork South has already taken himself off my ballot card, because of the banner he's installed on an overpass on the Midleton road. Obviously he doesn't read the newspapers or listen to the radio. He'll be reported to Cork County Council for littering later today.
Was it not the unions that needed to implement the changes and reforms and didnt? If I am wrong aplogogies. Either way I think its a bad deal as if my company was losing money hand over fist there would be downsizing. Its happened already with 20 per cent headcount reductions. that includes natural attrition and reallocating resources from where they arent needed to where they are.(which is the proper way to do it) .Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Am not anti public sector at all. If people have good pay and conditions good luck to them. contrary to the myth thats out there most public sector bodies are a lot better to deal with than private sector ones. But I think a deal which rules out certain options for a set period of time is a bad one in a recession where the government needs to save money. If Labour see it different then I dont agree with them and wont vote with them eventho I would be naturally more inclined to vote for them over anyone else.
One thing about Croke Park is that while no one gets sacked that's not to say that numbers won't be reduced via natural attrition and redundancies.
I'd be for giving the deal a chance to work- but if after 6 months it isn't then it should be revisited.
It's up to the unions to come to agreement with Management on the implemention of changes. Public sector management were to propose changes to a Dept of Finance group, who'd then prioritise changes to give cost savings. So what of those changes been brought forward that have failed to be implemented by Unions and staff? Feck all, that's what. That's another Lenihan failure, as well as the other line Ministers as they are the ultimate managers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Even the attempt to undermine the agreement by leaking about banking time turned out to be a nonstory (the CPSU wouldn't agree to that without agreement on privledge days, which was all subsequently agreed without much issue).
I've also said before on other threads, net pay in the public sector is going down disproportionally anyway despite Croke Park - the treatment of the compulsory pension levy for example.
Granted I haven't been fully following this forum since I registered, but I'm surprised by the popularity of Sinn Fein. Is it just an anti-FF thing or do Sinn Fein really have that much support in the Republic? For anyone in Louth, how is Gerry Adams popularity compared to others running in the election? To me(this might be a bit controversial) their biggest selling point in the North is that they focus on being the "republican party" and talk up their United Ireland beliefs etc. Having read their manifestos every election, there is alot I completely disagree with. Unless their southern manifesto is completely different, I would have assumed they would have difficulty gaining popularity in the Republic based solely on what their manifesto promises? Do they talk up their Tiocfaidh ar la profile?
Seeing as they haven't taken the state to the point of economic meltdown, am willing to overlook that for now!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Also, why is this 'poll' closing on the 1st of Feb?? Surely it should be left up till election date, when the real polls close.
Just found out we have a labour candidate. We also seem to have a right wing loon who is independent but ran in mulhuddart as a pd then ind then fg and was involved in unionism in norn iron too. luckily he hasnt a chance.
Which is worse, playing golf with Seanie Fitz or giving Pearse McCauley a bit of a cuddle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Very debatable imho.
Just copied and pasted from the other thread:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
This is a slight twisting of events which has been peddled by the other parties since it happened. (in particular a terrified Labour) My understanding is Sinn Fein agreed to back the guarantee as an emergency measure but once the detail was revealed and the banks were found to be telling porkies they then withdrew their support and voted against the bill ratifying the Gaurantee, some weeks later??
Even if this isn't the case and Sinn Fein are being duplicitous, is it any less honest than Labours voting against the guarantee before hopping into the finance bill bed??
FF's(and the PDs tbf) economic policies ruined the country.
Labour gave the people of Donegal SW Frank "8 euro bonds" McBrearty as their by election candidate.
I don't think any one party has the monopoly on economic stoopid.
Apologies for the laziness but I think this bit of spin needs to be challenged wherever it comes up.
When the Bank Guarantee was brought before the Dail Labour voted against because the liability was potentially so big and the information was not complete- this was the right call. This was the decision in my opinion that lead to the extent of the problems later and to IMF country. An Labour got it right, which is one of the main reasons I'll be voting for them.
And Labour voted against the finance bill- the only difference from normal years was that the debate and procedure was fast-tracked. Most of it had be voted into place before Christmas in any case and would be difficult to reverse mid year. I'd still expect the new government to tinker with some of the details though.
On McBrearty- I entirely agree. I cannot understand why this idiot is on the ticket. He's going to cost Labour a hell of a lot of votes in Donegal, even in Donegal NE. Stupid, stupid selection.
On the comments indicating that people are comfortable with SF's murky past (and present) and the fact that they haven't brought the country to economic meltdown- I think that's probably because they've never had the chance. I agree that it was FF and the PDs that ran the country into the ground, but personally I don't see that is a reason to turn to the extreme left. Certainly when it first clear that the British government would be cutting the block grant to NI the SF reaction was not inspiring- they simply hoped it would go away if they pleaded the special case enough. It didn't work.
On the Michael Martin thing- I think he will help FF stave off total meltdown. He may have been party to the country being run into the ground but he can communicate and debate well and doesn't inspire the same level of anger as Cowen does. If he performs well between now and the election I think they'll save a few seats they might otherwise have lost.
That's basically the FG stance too - that they voted for it, but were subsequently against when they found out the scope - i.e. attempt to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted. The Labour policy was to not write the blank cheque without knowing the cost of the "cheapest bailout in the world". SF are in the same position as FG on the guarantee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
Don't agree with the Finance Bill - it's all about the election date. FF would still be messing around now if it wasn't for clearing the decks forced on them by Labour and FG.
I do agree that McBreaty isn't a good candidate, but he is an elected councillor. It's not like the parachuted him in specifically for the byelection. I've no idea how he played or will play locally, but he obviously won't have the same national profile in a general election.
What have Labour said they don't like about the finance bill and what are they specifically going to change?? I'm not being snippy I just genuinely haven't heard it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Also the next government is going to be dominated by Fine Gael unless Eamon pulls a drastic stroke.
How do you feel about the likes of Mae Sexton being selected?? Serial failure and D4 righteous liberalism poster child Ivana Backic (sp? sorry to lazy to look it up :) ) being parachuted in to gain a seat off Gilmores back??Quote:
On McBrearty- I entirely agree. I cannot understand why this idiot is on the ticket. He's going to cost Labour a hell of a lot of votes in Donegal, even in Donegal NE. Stupid, stupid selection.
I was just asking the question which is worse, in my own personal opinion the corruption in this country has brought far more misery to far more people than the murder of a single solitary guard. Now obviously as you go further up the North of the country I'd assume feelings about Sinn Fein become more polarised one way or the other but it doesn't affect me. I do think that the majority of Irish people probably still consider the Shinners worse and they remain untouchable to an awful lot of middle class lovie types, which is partially why I'm considering voting for them for the first time, I think the very fact that they are so toxic will keep them honest in working for the interests of lower class people, in short they haven't as much to gain from a Labour style sell out as the votes aren't there.Quote:
On the comments indicating that people are comfortable with SF's murky past (and present)
It also raises as issue around just when it is ok to bring ex paramilitaries in from the cold?? Should their be an official timetable set?? Most of the Labour front bench have had what 25 years??
Sinn Fein have been attacked quite a lot down here for preaching one thing while accepting budget cuts in the North but this is fairly disingenuous aswell imho as what alternative was open to them?? Bring down the power sharing executive?!Quote:
Certainly when it first clear that the British government would be cutting the block grant to NI the SF reaction was not inspiring- they simply hoped it would go away if they pleaded the special case enough. It didn't work.
But it's a totally expected line of attack from a political establishment in the South which spent decades convincing the likes of Ian Paisley and the Northern Loyalists that Sinn Fein was good enough for them while maintaining they weren't good enough for government in the south.
A Fine Gael which will dominate the next government. What kind of concessions are Labour looking for??Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
I genuinely think the Yellows were on the brink anyway, there was tensions in the party between the no hopers (Gormley) and the people who still had a slight chance of holding a seat (Ryan) The No Confidence motion would have been interesting but ultimately we'll never know either way.Quote:
Don't agree with the Finance Bill - it's all about the election date. FF would still be messing around now if it wasn't for clearing the decks forced on them by Labour and FG.
What parts of the Finance Bill are Labour opposed to and what changes will they be looking for??
slightly off topic, but that was the reaction of nearly all the parties. they are completely at sea when it comes to normal, everyday political governance. Not really fair to single them out for this when their partners in government in the north are no different. Border issue aside, I would imagine that Sinn Fein members/politicians in the republic would be a wee bit more clued in as to how a country actually works without semtex and bank robberies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
I seem to recall that the DUP cottoned on a lot quicker that it was time to start looking at where money could be saved, and were attacked by SF for doing so. The idea that the grant would be left untouched during a time of massive cutbacks was ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by shantykelly
The Socialist Party are running under the banner of the United Left Alliance in this election, along with People Before Profit. Not sure how it'll appear on the ballot paper though.
Anyway, I'll give my first and second preferences to the ULA candidate in this constituency (Dublin SE) and the Independent Mannix Flynn (who I think has a good chance of getting elected), although maybe not in that order. My 'vote' will probably end up with Labour though after eliminations.
Three seats are a shoe in: 1 FF (Chris Andrews), 1 FG (Lucinda Creighton), 1 Lab (Ruairí Quinn).
The fourth seat then is a battle between Kevin Humphreys (2nd Labour), Mannix Flynn (Ind) and John Gormley (Green).
I think Humphreys will just edge it ahead of Flynn for the fourth seat. As always. transfers will be key for that final seat. Gormley's lack of transfers will be his undoing.
As the ULA aren't a party the individual members will appear under an SP logo if they are members of SP etc. I am unsure as to whether the PBPA have registered as a party at this stage because I remember that their candidates last time out were listed as Indos.
One thing though if the ULA is an alliance and the pbp is an alliance exactly whats the point of an alliance of an alliance?
Heading to the launch of their campaign out in Dún Laoghaire on Wednesday. That should be fun.
Of course not, you just see the likes of FF collapsing our country through utter corruption with developers, banks and big business.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
The level of criminality which has brought this state to its knees.
It wasnt so long ago FF were hanging out with "murderers" or FG members proping up a quasi-facist regime.
Provisional Sinn Fein is positively clean in comparison to the dirt under the FF and FG rugs.
RedC/SBP: FG 33% -1 Lab 21% -2 FF 16% -1% SF 13% -1 Greens 2% Ind 15% +5
Would be interesting to see how much of the 15% can be credited to United Left - it's surely time they were classed separately in the polls.
I know this isn't really related to the thread, but it's not worth its own thread - Michael Lowry had taken Sam Smyth to court over Smyth calling him a liar and a cheat, but today a judge ruled that Lowry had no reasonable defence to those claims. Love it!
I think Lowry wanted a summary judgement based on his assertion that Smyth had no grounds for reasonable defence. The judge ruled that it will go forward for a full hearing.
Still good news of course- but Lowry could conceivably win this yet.
My story's better.
It really is.
That's great news ne'er a better man to lose a defamation case.
What's even better is this coupled with Labours implosion has made It a good day.
Why is the poll closed???
Not as if it has to be kept open for longer. And unlike reality, you can vote only once....
So it represents a snapshot of opinion around the time the GE was called.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Because it descended into farce- somebody said they'd vote FF.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
:)
I set it to close automatically at the end of the month, for the reason John83 stated. Otherwise it would be nonsense, representing nothing.
I'll post another poll when the current nonsense has followed its course and we're into proper campaign time.
Fair enough?
But what is now then??
What is what now?
RedC poll:
FG 37% (+4)
Lab 19% (-2)
FF 18% (+2)
SF 12% (-1)
Ind 11% (-4)
GP 3% (0)
Looks like we're going to funk it again.
Who's we?
Just generally, if it looks like people are going to switch back to FF all because of a change of leader.