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How many clubs did that? Since they normally showed around 3 premier matches a week, is it enough clubs to justifty cancleing the whole thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by max power
what those clubs did was disgraceful, b the way, but I still think that this decision is mainly because TV3 are looking for a way out. Still, the clubs are even worse for giving them one on a plate if what you say is true.
40% of premier clubs... cause 2 clubs play at both tolka and richmond....
its a stand tv 3 are making to highlight the lack of co operation they are gettin from certain clubs, its the only way anything will be doen, shame them into it, as sad as it sounds its the only way they could get it done....
tv3 don't mind showing the el coverage as its a good pr point for them, rte weren't bothered so tv 3 show that they are...the ratings weren't too bad but they knew the show had to improve, 2 pundits was the first change, decent package to feel the waters and then push that weekly until the show was almost an hour long, with an extre break for ad revenue...
but no help from certain clubs has put an end to that, you'll notice neither club have denied any comments made by tv 3 or in the indo ??
well max, if that was their plan, lets hope it works.
this could result in better facilities, better standards and a better show.
No even el clubs are that stupid to let the show go down the tubes. :confused:
they're actually contractually obliged to - and have broken that contract
tv gantries my b0ll0x - its not an issue and the one at richmond has been secured - there is NO excuse now
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Originally Posted by max power
Oh fcuk ..... didnt know that ... dont mind the beechin' as long as the general public dont know. Man ... we have to sort ourselves out.
Slash/ED ..... no showing the other footage is for two reasons i'd say .... firstly it is too hard to show highlights when you are trying to stretch the footage. the second is the auld push trun to shove tactic, TV3 are leading the clubs by the hand, showing them what they need to do and hope that they'll do the right thing for the league. A national broadcasting company trying to get clubs to sort themselves out. Madness
Is there any chance we can find out who told TV3 to go fcuk off ..... you know a scape goat ... we could make him responsible and all that goes with.
after having a chat with a couple of the tv 3 lads on sat night, that is the plan....hope it works
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Originally Posted by wws
they have not broken any cntract as serious health and safety issues were raised and not fixed, so they are well with their rights to stop going to richmond, plus they showed the cork game last week so highlights were shown by tv 3 so no contract was broken.....
btw richmond is not the only ground in question
Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Is this the attitude shared by your club aswell .... is this why we are in this pickle ..... St. Patricks Athletic ... the club that invented football ...... come off the stage .... we all can see who is causing the problem ...... everyone is tip toeing around ye (i agree with that seeing as things aren't the best with you right now, need to cut you some slack) ...... and you are not standing ot be counted and trying to sort the problem.
I am sorry wws .... you dont have a leg to stand on. I wouldn't mind if it were just yourselves .... but this time it involves the whole league. Not youselves so everything you do as regards this situation effects everyone.
Take it on the chin, every club has gone through different scrapes ..... but dont defend the indefendable (is that a word?)
Gantries .... co-operation ..... footage ...... progress ..... evolving league.
They should be your words for the day !!
Yeah, because they were going to come out and say that they really couldn't be arsed anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by max power
It is a cop out, and last season when there were no issue's over the gantry's they didn't exactly go out of their way to send camera's. All this rubbish about TV3 being great - they do it because they have to.
The roof arguement is boll0x too in Longford's case - look at the sports like golf etc where their exposed to the elements. In Flancare they could bring the equipment in through the ground, pass them on to the gantry and then climb the ladder - no issue over carrying the equipment up a ladder. No problem for Sky for the under 21 internationals, no problem for RTE for the cup semi, only a problem for a company looking for an excuse not to put on a TV show it could do without.
i read the first few lines than gave up
face, if you think tv3 arent showin games because of health and safety ure a bigger muppet than i thought was possible. also i dont work for pats, I just look at the available evidence and recent history and draw my own conclusions like most rational punters
as far as i can recall that gantry is owned by rte for starters!
macy i just made a point about our ground, roof isn't a necessity just nice on a cold november night, thats all...on the ladder issue, tv 3 send one person to cover a game, not a crew like rte on they HAVE TO carry the camera in the ladder...Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
this has been in the national press for over a wee and no club has denied it, have they ??? there is truth in there....
Alright .... i am wrong .... Macy and wws should run the whole thing ... they know best. The eL advisors ..... god help us all. :eek:
TV3 dont care so thats why we wont sort out our problems.
Typical and true to form lads .... great work :D
You are both legends !!
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Originally Posted by wws
so rte own part of pats ground then ???
if you don't work for pats where is the available evidence that the gantree is up to sctatch, i for one haven't seen it and i live in inchicore.....not available anywhere around there
i dnt know who owns it but i have a funny feeling rte do
and yes access to the gantry (they wanted a fixed access) was done and dusted a few weeks ago
I've tried to stay out of the Richmond debate, however at flancare they don't have to carry any equipment up any ladders. They can pass it over the back of section N. Christ, you'd barely need to stand on anything to get yourself up. TV3 more often than not don't, and haven't bothered their whole to come to Longford. Whatever about Richmond, if they're using the same excuse for Longford it is nothing but a cop out.
Yes facilities should improve, but they haven't deteriorated since last season and health and safety standards haven't improved since then. If it was a genuine reason, surely TV3 would've made a stand when they got the coverage. They could've insisted it was in the contract they signed, instead of making it a "point of principle" now.
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Originally Posted by wws
Simple question ....... was it signed off by an engineer or was it sign off by anyone from health and safety ?
Yes or No question
And the answer will determine why TV3 are not using the gantries
(i.e. Yes they were signed off, TV3 dont want to do eL weekly OR No they werent signed off and this is why TV3 dont want to use them.)
Can you answer that .... simple yes or no !!
how on earth would I know? and how or why would it have been possible for tv3 to have used them in previous years? has health and safety law changed?
A Face - Did Health and safety shut it down in the first place? Who said it wasn't safe in the first place? Did TV3 get health and safety in?
You're buying TV3's reasons just as much as myself, wws and others aren't.
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Originally Posted by wws
No but were not enforced as much previously. And it is the insurance companys that are applying the pressure, not TV3 .... insurance has gone up for everyone.
And "how would i know" ...... why in gods name are you saying that it is done and dusted if you dont if it is or not.
You are saying Pats resolved the problem when you dont know if they have or not. WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT ??
:confused: :eek: :mad:
TV3 or the companys that they subsontract the work to, have to work within certain parameters in order to be insured (they are obligied to be insured before you say anything) .... bog standard health and safety standards apply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
it is not a case of buying reasons .... it is not an elaborate game they are playing. Man, everyone has to adhere to these standard, this is run of the mill stuff. Taxi bases, banks, newspapers stands, hospitals .... everyone has to have their safety signed off. This is not a new thing at all, eL clubs have been getting away with it and that is great ..... but it is now being hauled in. It is not a great suprise, everyone knew it was happening, it ddin't happen over night.Quote:
You're buying TV3's reasons just as much as myself, wws and others aren't.
Lads, in all fairness ... the clubs shouldnt be dragged kicking and screaming to conform.
beacuse I saw it with my own eyes - YES it has been securely fastned to the ground - ure comment that it (a supposed health and safety law which does not exist) wasnt enforced in the past is rubbish - it was never an issue in the past and why is it now
what are the facilities in turners cross anyway?
Whats changed since last season. That's quite a serious allegation that the subcontractor's weren't enforcing these most basic health and safety standards last year, and essentially letting their staff work un-insured last season.Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
What are the standards? The clubs aren't conforming to health and safety standards because TV3 say so? Must get TV3 in here just to check that the working environment here is safe. Fook the Health and Safety Authority....Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Hey ... if that is the case .... then there will be no problem in getting it signed off and we'll have it back on the screens tonight.
Problem solved ... what was all the fuss over ??
They weren't up to scratch .... we had to use a ladder for the top gantry .... it wasn't good enough so now there is a fire escape type stairs there. (steel, banister both sides, proper lenght steps, proper grip, .... man it is a fire exit stairs, it is what is needed it is what is there. End of) It is signed off and there is no issue. TV3 or anyone else can bring there cameras and the quality footage our games deserve can be taken :DQuote:
what are the facilities in turners cross anyway?
It ain't rocket science !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
You might be right .... we should lynch them, burn them at the stake, how dare they .... of all the things they expose their staff to ..... who is with me .... there is no justice like anger mob justice ..... lets round them up boys !! :D
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Fook the Health and Safety Authority....
Ah ... err ..... correct me if i am wrong ... but isn't that what is happening.
Is that the reason we are in this mess ..... Macy ... you are the ticket man ... you really are !!
So you're not willing to address why it's a H&S issue now when it wasn't last season. It either was safe or it wasn't. If it hasn't changed and wasn't safe last season, you're saying that the employers ignored H&S legislation and thus weren't insured.Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
No, think that's the point a few of us are making. TV3 are saying they won't go due to H&S, not that the H&S Authority have said it isn't safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
right if i type this once more my finger will fall off, certain clubs gave assurances that the gantrees would be up graded for h & s reasons in the close season, tv 3 and others were not happy last season but as the clubs said they would do the work in the close season they continued to work, but seeing as the clubs did nothing and refused to do the work this season that is what happened...
i worked in a certain venue a few years ago, but an odd and dangerous dj box, whixh had a ladder you had to carry dj gear up....
we asked the venue to fix it and they said no, we left and 2 days later they did the work, walking was the only way to get it done....same as tv 3....
macy, is it also a cop out to just blame tv 3 and not the clubs as well....
I can't believe it you're all missing the real Prince of Darkness in this!!!!
I blame Roddy Collins!He appears twice? and the budget is gone for the rest of the season! :eek:
Clubs like Harps and Home Farm Everton Fingal Dublin City film their own games and supply the coverage FOC to TV3 and they still don't want to show it.While the gantrys have to be sorted this is a wind up by TV3.We all know there is a market for El coverage,why oh why can't some of the excellent independent companies put a package together and sell it to RTEngerland,GranadaTV3,TG4 and or Sky???????Something along the lines of the soccer show(but without the ****ty graphics and Shay Healy!). :mad:
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Originally Posted by Macy
It doesn't stop with me but yeah ... i think they ignored the H+S but as Max said above, they did this with the understanding it was going to improve !!
Macy ........... are you now trying to say it is the camera crews employers fault. Please answer this cause if it is man you are so twisted it is gone beyond a joke.
Are you now blaming the employers ??
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No, think that's the point a few of us are making. TV3 are saying they won't go due to H&S, not that the H&S Authority have said it isn't safe.
Chicken ... Egg .... Gantries are not up to scratch is the actual point you should be looking at.
It really doesn't matter a flying fcuk who said it first or what ever you are impling ...... if it aint signed off, it aint signed off, who pulled it up first isnt the issue. OR is it the only issue you are looking at.
Either way .... after we go do a few laps of thses circles ..... the gantries will have to be sorted. That is the bones of it. And no matter what angle you look at it or debate it from ..... no noe will manage to get away from that.
Gantries = Be all and end all for this situation.
Everything else = Irrelevent
No, but if they let their staff go up unsafe gantry's, particularly as they appear to have known about it, then I think it's disgusting regardless of this current arguement.Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
If, however, they were safe last season, as appears to be the case, then they're safe this season regardless of their preferred working conditions. It's not a safety issue.
Tell that to their Union or the family of some TV3 worker if/when they suffer an accident whilst filming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
They were doing it last year on condition that it would be brough up to standard this year, which they were not.
so if they had an accdent last year thats ok than but if they have one now- oh my god
the mind boggles
tv3 are actin the maggot
So it would've been alright if it had happened last season, because it was going to improve this season?Quote:
Originally Posted by SÓC
Just going around in circles, so there's no point.
Macy ... you are right .... it's disgusting !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Are you with me ..... an anger mob seems to be the only option. We'll kit ourselves out with flaming torches and march in the streets. Employers not going by the book is simply the worse, most heinous crime known to man.
I think there is alot worse going on in society to be honest.
UEFA licensing only states that a TV platform must be present exactly in line with halfway and at a height that produces a viewing angle of 15-30%, it makes no mention of safety requirements for the gantry although the licensing requirements do cite the following as referenceQuote:
Originally Posted by A face
"Code of practice for safety at sports grounds" Dept. of Educ.
"Code of practice for the management of fire safety in places of assembly" Dept. of Env.
"Safety, health and Welfare at work act"
"Building for everyone; inclusion, access and Use" National disability authority
so it's likely that the safety of anybody working for TV3 would ahve to be adhering to the above practices. In the end, the clubs are going to have to address this sooner or later, for all our benefit I hope it's sooner
That is ... it aint up to UEFA.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
The media companys involved have to be insured ... the insurance companys dont give a toss what the FAI, FIFA, UEFA, Fran Rooney, Eddie Connors ..... anyone says.
They want H+S authority to give it the thumbs up and then they'll pay out. If the media company are working in conditions that dont have a thumbs up then they are not covered, also the €40,000 camera going up the dodgy ladder isn't covered either, no matter how many tubes of glue you have used to keep it there.
The media company have allegiance to football clubs, they are there for a job and where it happens is irrelevent. It just have to be safe.
was only making the point that it's in the club's interest to have it in order. don't know enough about insurance etc. to get involved in the rest of the debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
Going completely off the thread, but anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
Am I supposed to sit through half an hour of this rubbish just because it's eL? Do you think I've nothing better to be doing?
eL Weekly is a poor show, with no attempts to make it any better. The last eight months or so, it's been going steadily worse and it's obvious they don't care about it - poor picture quality, repeat cut, shortened the show, only send cameras to two or so games a week, don't show highlights sent in to them, still analysing the bottom half of the First Division and wondering if Kilkenny have anything to play for after two years, still showing about five minutes' tops of action in a 30-minute show, while making very few attempts to promote it (Anyone seen it advertised on the channel during the day? During their European or international coverage? Very little done). There's been plenty of e-mails sent in from here (as far as I know) and the programme has still gone steadily downhill.
A face - The point the others are making is that they don't believe that the gantries convene H&S laws. Obviously, the clubs should be looking at continuous improvements of all aspects per the UEFA Licencing guidelines, but you can understand people being suspicious that TV3 are just pulling a huff in the hope of dropping something they don't really want anyway. That's completely different to clubs flagrantly convening H&S laws and not caring.
its an excuse and cop out plain and simple.they were fine about for a year and decided to pull the plug on the show.they couldnt be bothered to cum to flancare all season an surely there is not much wrong with our gantry.
Valid points but that is not what they are saying. At the moment, someone from one of the clubs in question has told them "to fcuk off and get your own ladder" and that was the last straw apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Maybe over the top to stop it all together but i think they are right. The clubs have to sort themselves out.
Fair enough ... the programme aint great right now but there are plans to improve and they haven't given us any reason to disbelieve that. It takes time, like everything. But what gets me is that we haven't had something like this in a long while. RTÉ made a half ársed attempt at something before and it wasnt anywhere near what TV3 are doing. I personally like seeing something instead of nothing.
But on this topic .... will they pull out or wont they !!
We'll just have to wait and see.
[QUOTE=A face]At the moment, someone from one of the clubs in question has told them "to fcuk off and get your own ladder" and that was the last straw apparently.[\QUOTE]
IF TV3 are exaggerating the ladder stuff, then I can actually understand the club saying that. Doesn't excuse it, but I can understand it. Obviously the club should get flak for acting that way, but I stil think TV3 are looking for a way out.
[QUOTE=A face]Fair enough ... the programme ain't great right now but there are plans to improve and they haven't given us any reason to disbelieve that. It takes time, like everything. But what gets me is that we haven't had something like this in a long while. RTÉ made a half ársed attempt at something before and it wasnt anywhere near what TV3 are doing. I personally like seeing something instead of nothing.[\QUOTE]
They haven't given us any reason to believe that they are going to improve it is more like it. It's constantly gone downhill - fewer games, Goal of the Month being dropped (though it's making a comeback full of goals the camera didn't get and very ordinary goals because they don't cover half the matches), shorter programme, repeat dropped, poorer picture quality, still showing us the highlights three times more as "analysis", wondering if we can see from the same camera angle if it really was a penalty, and so on.
RTÉ did make a half-arséd effort before and it was nowhere near what TV3 are doing, I agree. It was far better. Two (proper) camera angles at most games, longer highlights, live commentary, proper analysis, focus on the smaller clubs, decent time and so on. It wasn't perfect - being practically forced into it and then trying to force clubs to change kick-off times - but it was leagues ahead of TV3's efforts.
[QUOTE]But on this topic .... will they pull out or won't they!![\QUOTE]
In fairness, this was your original point in the thread. If this is a temporary pull-out, I'll be a bit swayed back in favour of TV3, though I'm still sceptical. We'll have to see, but either way, the programme needs to improve and there are no signs of this at all, which is fuelling the negative attitudes towards the station.