Why does finishing 5th get you an easier game than finishing 1st? Daft Australians.
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Why does finishing 5th get you an easier game than finishing 1st? Daft Australians.
For arguments sake if a 16 team Premier is brought in, the likes of UCD and Dundalk would've been in mid-table without a whole lot to play for. The play-offs would at least give them something to play for.
The play-offs worked well in division one. Until the last 2-3 weeks, the top 6 were still eyeing promotion, be it winning the division or getting to the play-offs.
BTW I can guarantee you that people advocating European play offs wuod be the first to moan when our 7th place league finisher gets thiumped in Europe
Cos if you win, you skip a round and if you lose, you're not knocked out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I accept the arguments of those against play-offs but I still don't agree. When the Europa League was formed and the Intertoto finished, the LoI did gain an extra EL place. If the rules are laid about before the beginning of a season I can't see how there can be too many complaints. Finish in the top two, European football is guaranteed. Finish short of the top two, there's a second chance through an end of season play-off competition. Play-offs have been brought in for a number of reason. They do avoid more dead rubbers and they give more teams something to aim for. The highest ranked side in the play-offs are given the advantage of the home tie for the second-leg etc. The two play-off ideas mooted would take 4 matchdays. The current relegation/promotion play-off take 3 matchdays. A Friday night finish to the season at a league ground, with European football to play for, it's not a bad finish to the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
This year for example:
Imagine if the great FAI Cup final was played in mid-October. If this was followed by the 3 or 4 remaining rounds of the league with Shamrock Rovers and Bohemians battling for the title and then a Europa League play-off series. It'd have been some finish to the season, with a lot of high profile games.
Based on the presumption that it would lead to higher profile games I could see some sense in it but would not take that for granted. Various experiments tried in the past (top six / bottom six, 4-3-2-1- points etc) did not lead to an increase in publicity and it could be arguable led to a decrease in credibility for the League.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
That happened the first couple of years of summer football. Pats averaged about 1,800 before the cup final. lost it, and averaged about 700 after it.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Awful idea.
Nobody is complaining at being ambushed by playoffs at the end of the season. People complain because they (and I) see it as unfair/pointless to have playoffs, or at least the kind of playoffs you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
The purpose of a league is to determine over 36 games which teams are stronger than other teams. At the end of the season, the league table doesn't lie. Why do you then want to have playoffs in which a team that has shown itself to be superior to another team over the course of the league has to play that team again in a once off/two leg playoff?
For excitement and to reduce dead rubbers? They're part of football, unexciting though they may be. And how exciting is it going to be in the last few weeks of the regular season when teams in say 4th or 5th are assured of a playoff spot with 2 or 3 games to go?
Also, I quite like dead rubbers at times. They mean we're safe (or already down). We've had bugger all of them the past decade.
Ah, OK. Still seems more like an excuse to have more games than more competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The play-offs work well in Division One. All the top 6 were battling for something during the last few weeks. As I say, I accept the arguments of all against the idea but I still don't agree.
The one play-off I don't agree with however was Galway playing Bray this year. It doesn't quite work for relegation. Should be 9th Prem vs 2nd Div. 1 or include 3rd and 4th as well.
Clubs from countries with a lower ranking than Ireland made the Europa League group stage this year, Debrecen from Hungary (35th) and Sheriff Tiraspol from Moldova (37th). The 2010/11 access list had Ireland 30th.
With a bit of luck, if the two Rovers keep going as they are, hopefully one, if not two, of them can make the breakthrough next season.
Define 'breakthrough' legendz.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Yeah, no bother. I'd define it as a LoI club making the group stages of the EL or CL for the first time.Quote:
Originally Posted by poster
Both are bankrolled to a heavy extent though I think eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Dunno about Shams, but we won't be strong enough to challenge for a group stage place. Unless we get a very very few lucky draws.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Fair point by Kingdom.
Are TNS better than either of the Rovers? When TNS got by Boh's, after a defeat to Anderlecht they still got to the Europa League play-offs. It could be green tinted glasses on my behalf but I think either of the Rovers would've given CSKA Sofia a better game. Qualification for these stages does seem a long way off for the league but I wouldn't write it off entirely, with a bit of luck.
Just hope Rovers dont drawn against Bangor city. They have won every league game so far this season and look better than what Tns were .
They've a big lead alright. It'll be interesting to see how the Welsh get on with the split.
It won't be. They'll get on just as well as ourselves and Scotland have.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
I'm sure they will get on with it. They have this Europa League play-off. I'm interested to see when it's put into practice, does it work and is it enough of an incentive for the top team on the bottom group after the split to go for.
Juventus V Shamrock Rovers in Modena (300km away from Turin) Att: 17,579!! Juventus V Man City in Turin Att: 6,992!! Not suggesting there was thousands of Shamrock Rovers fans but interesting that nearly 11,000 more people turned out for the Shamrock Rovers game than Man City..
It rewards failure. Incentive alludes to those clubs not trying hard enough and that the FAW should sweeten the deal for them.
In fact now that I think about it, its a great idea rewarding failure is one of the great Irish pastimes.
I'd say it has more to do with the fact that when they were playing Rovers there was more at stake. They were out of the EL when they came to play City. Interesting statistic nonetheless.Quote:
Originally Posted by EivissaPaul
It's a bit unfair on Europa League clubs, that 8 failed Champions League clubs get to drop in after the group stage.
It's a terrible tournament from the point of view of clubs from 'big' leagues. Maybe the LoI section isn't the place for this, but for the likes of Man City and Liverpool for example, it's really not worth winning. Liverpool have had to play 10 games already to reach the last 32 and would have to play 9 more to win it and then there's no great reward - a place in the Super Cup. I think the winner should get a place in the next year's Champions League. That would make it more competitive. As it stands, the big clubs don't take it seriously enough, put out reserve sides and so the financial benefits aren't as good for their opponents due to decreased attendances and interest levels. While it would be brilliant if an Irish team made the group stages, there wouldn't be as much interest if their group was CSKA Sofia, Standard Liege and Fiorentina's reserves. (Now that I look at that, they'd be great away trips for fans!!) It wouldn't whet the appetite of the media or random punters enough to make the fortune that the club would deserve.
European places aren't to be scoffed at. A few years ago a lot of so-called big clubs, including Barcelona, entered the Intertoto Cup to get into Europe.
That's apparentley normal for Juventus. They usually get bigger crowds when they play matches outside of Turin, than they would when playing in Turin.Quote:
Originally Posted by EivissaPaul
Yeah; loads of fans around the country but maybe not that popular in their home town? So the Rovers game was also a chance for the Modena-based Juve fans to see "their" team. I think they had massive away support during the Serie B campaign in particular for the same reason.
No they didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Another note on Juve v Rovers, Rovesr were the only team that Juventus actually beat in Europe this year. The shame of it...
Ok, they must have snuck into the UEFA Cup that season. They were worried towards the end of the '02-'03 season and did apply for the safety net of the Inter-toto Cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
http://www.uefa.com/memberassociatio...sid=66595.html
O'Neill out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Its funny reading stuff from that far back. Hard to believe that that season happened when you look at them now.
So Pats will take Fingal's place. Unless of course they take Bohs' place...in which case Dundalk will take Fingal's. Is that right?
No, Pats will take Fingal`s place, thats already a given.
Bohs may yet still play in Europe, however if they fail to get a PD licence, we will take their spot, also they may pull out themsevles (I doubt it through) or the FAI may not nominate them. Hard to know, but we are ready to go in any event.
The 100k spent on upgrading the ground last year is looking like a really smart investment now, if we dont get to play in europe this season, we`ll have a very good chance in 2012 .
No. Dundalk will take Fingal's place in the first qualifying round IF Pat's take Bohs' place in the second qualifying round.
The first round is the place to be - increases your chances of more participation money pay-outs.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyCakes
Pats may have gone from hoping Bohs were denied a Euro spot to praying that they now get it!
Is the cumulative payment not the same no matter what round you start in (e.g. getting knocked out in the third round nets you the same amount no matter what stage you enter at)? Home gates could be a boon (especially for a well-supported club like Dundalk) but would probably be offset by travel costs to fulfill the away fixture?