Under 19's away for 10 days in Bulgaria

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Originally Posted by Flexy

Dodge what rules have Derry broken with regards this. The player obviously felt it was more important to play for his club in such an important game than play for his country on this occassion. I ask you this, what would you have done if it was you. Myself personally Id put my club first as they are paying my wages every week

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He should have been using the international games as a showcase for his talents really. Underage International games are packed with scouts form all over Europe, if he has ambitions of playing at a professional level then playing for Ireland should have been put first by himself.

Anyway, as Pineapple Stu as said, Rules have been broken by Derry over this, i don't want to see any action taken but accept that rules have been broken. Jesus just count yourself lucky that he didn't come back injured like Gary Shaw did.

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Originally Posted by VinnyDCFC

I'm trying to get my head around all of this but where did Derry City refuse to release a player?

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By Derry saying the player was injuried and pulling him out of the squad. Once they done that, they were saying the player wasn't fit to play in the under-19 game(s) which meant that if he wasn't fit to play for the under-19's, he shouldn't have been fit to play for Derry either (one of the under-19 games was on the same day as Derry played Shels). The last line of the rule says "Any selected player failing to join the panel shall not be permitted to play for his Club for the same period" - the player clearly played for his club during the period of the under-19 internationals.

So John Terry doesnt play for england on tuesday due to injury but bet your life he will be playing for chelsea on Saturday, are you telling me that the FA will stop him playing, dont think so. Will FAI stop kevin doyle from playing for Wolves this weekend dont think so, lads its an Under 19 international big tickle, McEleney wanted to play for his club in one of the most important matches of the year instead of playing for the Under 19's. He would rather try and help the club gain promotion to the premier division than play for Ireland

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Originally Posted by Flexy

So John Terry doesnt play for england on tuesday due to injury but bet your life he will be playing for chelsea on Saturday, are you telling me that the FA will stop him playing, dont think so. Will FAI stop kevin doyle from playing for Wolves this weekend dont think so, lads its an Under 19 international big tickle, McEleney wanted to play for his club in one of the most important matches of the year instead of playing for the Under 19's. He would rather try and help the club gain promotion to the premier division than play for Ireland

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But we're not talking about Chelsea, Wolves or the English FA here. We are talking about the FAI Participation Agreement that Derry City and the other 21 clubs signed up to. Derry broke one of these rules. Simple as. If Derry didn't want the player playing, why didn't they seek to release him from the squad instead of pulling him out because of injury. It has happened with squads in the past. Derry tried to pull a fast one and might well have been caught.

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Originally Posted by Flexy

So John Terry doesnt play for england on tuesday due to injury but bet your life he will be playing for chelsea on Saturday, are you telling me that the FA will stop him playing, dont think so. Will FAI stop kevin doyle from playing for Wolves this weekend dont think so, lads its an Under 19 international big tickle, McEleney wanted to play for his club in one of the most important matches of the year instead of playing for the Under 19's. He would rather try and help the club gain promotion to the premier division than play for Ireland

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The difference is Premier League games don't run concurrently with internationals. Derry pulled their player out of a squad on the premise that he was injured and then played him between two of the international fixtures.

And Kevin Doyle would need a miracle to appear for Wolves this weekend.

have the league or derry issued any statement so far. expect copous amounts of fudge to be issued as they want derry back up asap.

I suspect both sides will just keep quiet and it'll blow over.

There is no way we should keep quiet on this. The rules are clearly stated there, and they state he was ineligible. I have my doubts as to whether anything will happen, but there seems to be no grey area here. The rules have been clearly stated and clearly broken. What case could possibly be made in Derry's favour?

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Originally Posted by CSFShels

There is no way we should keep quiet on this. The rules are clearly stated there, and they state he was ineligible. I have my doubts as to whether anything will happen, but there seems to be no grey area here. The rules have been clearly stated and clearly broken. What case could possibly be made in Derry's favour?

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You should object and ask the FAI to check it out. Before doing so, I'd find as much evidence as you can on the net and then print it all off in case the internet pages are mysteriously edited / deleted.

I'm definitely interested to see if Derry fans feel they've a leg to stand on here. There is a report saying Patrick McEleney has withdrawn from the squad due to injury so theres no room for dispute there, there is a rule in the participation agreement stating that a player is ineligible for any games occurring 5 days after the games withdrawn from, McEleney played the day after, scoring 2 goals. There is a LOI precedent set, where a club who field ineligible player have the result given against them as a 3-0 defeat.

Can anyone make any legitimate case in Derry's favour here?

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Originally Posted by CSFShels

Can anyone make any legitimate case in Derry's favour here?

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They have been perfecting cheating for years?

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Originally Posted by CSFShels

I'm definitely interested to see if Derry fans feel they've a leg to stand on here. There is a report saying Patrick McEleney has withdrawn from the squad due to injury so theres no room for dispute there, there is a rule in the participation agreement stating that a player is ineligible for any games occurring 5 days after the games withdrawn from, McEleney played the day after, scoring 2 goals. There is a LOI precedent set, where a club who field ineligible player have the result given against them as a 3-0 defeat.

Can anyone make any legitimate case in Derry's favour here?

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Sour grapes

Does the FAI team doctor not have to assess if the player if hes being pulled out by injury by the club, or is this another rule the FAI make up themselves. If the player doesnt want to play then its his choice.

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Originally Posted by Flexy

Sour grapes

Does the FAI team doctor not have to assess if the player if hes being pulled out by injury by the club, or is this another rule the FAI make up themselves. If the player doesnt want to play then its his choice.

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I wouldnt be so confident in all this because I have heard a rumour we have been docked 3 points. May just be a Derry rumour though

What effect would it have on the table?

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Originally Posted by CSFShels

There is a LOI precedent set, where a club who field ineligible player have the result given against them as a 3-0 defeat.

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Is there a precedent in the LOI for this particular rule being breached? Just wondering.

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Originally Posted by CSFShels

Can anyone make any legitimate case in Derry's favour here?

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He withdrew from the squad, via Lourdes, and miraculously recovered.

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Originally Posted by dfx-

What effect would it have on the table?

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Colossal. If the result was overturned in Shels' favour it would drop Derry from a point clear at the top to trailing Mons by two, and push Shels up third just a point behind Derry. The resultant furore would likely KO our chances in the run-in too.

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Originally Posted by passerrby

cant see Derry being that naive as to pull a stroke like this

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Enjoy your pleasant vacation on the moon last season? We're in the first division for a reason you know...

And do we get our annual asterisk?

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Originally Posted by dfx-

And do we get our annual asterisk?

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If the result was just overturned, and awarded to Shels 3-0, would that require an asterisk? If we were deducted I suppose we would certainly be in line for the annual Brucey un-bonus.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

The difference is Premier League games don't run concurrently with internationals. Derry pulled their player out of a squad on the premise that he was injured and then played him between two of the international fixtures.

And Kevin Doyle would need a miracle to appear for Wolves this weekend.

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I guess miracles do happen: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/...k_ireland.html

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I guess miracles do happen: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/...k_ireland.html

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

McEleney withdrew from the squad, via Lourdes, and miraculously recovered.

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Case closed, Lionel Hutz style.

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Originally Posted by CSFShels

Can anyone make any legitimate case in Derry's favour here?

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Their fax machine was broken so they didn't get a copy of the participation agreement?

I think a more pertinent questin is whether there's any way DCFC can come out of this looking good. It does look like a clear, pre-meditated case of deliberate cheating.

Also, Wexford beat Salthill earlier in the season, but the result was changed to 3-0 Salthill cos Wexford fielded a banger. So yes, there's a precedent for the forfeit, and no, this won't break the asterisk duck - there either is one at the moment or there isn't, but that won't change cos of this.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think a more pertinent questin is whether there's any way DCFC can come out of this looking good. It does look like a clear, pre-meditated case of deliberate cheating.

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Agreed, it doesn't look good - but until there's some comment on it from somewhere other than this board, I'll hold fire on the melodrama. Could be more to it than anyone knows.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Also, Wexford beat Salthill earlier in the season, but the result was changed to 3-0 Salthill cos Wexford fielded a banger. So yes, there's a precedent for the forfeit, and no, this won't break the asterisk duck - there either is one at the moment or there isn't, but that won't change cos of this.

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If the result wasn't overturned, and we were simply deducted points, would that not finally satiate the asterisk junkies?

I believe an asterisk is only warranted when the points column doesn't match up with the win, loss and draw ones. A result being reversed/walkover wouldn't affect that so it wouldn't show an asterisk.

I don't see why points would be deducted without the result being overturned though. Shels were the sinned against party (allegedly).

From muckerchat:

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Originally Posted by adydcfc

I think we have a hearing with the fai Monday. Not good news from what I have been told. Fingers crossed though!

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Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

From muckerchat:

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This isn't true

No case to answer is what I'm hearing

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Originally Posted by Flexy

Sour grapes

Does the FAI team doctor not have to assess if the player if hes being pulled out by injury by the club, or is this another rule the FAI make up themselves. If the player doesnt want to play then its his choice.

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Sour grapes? What are you talking about? Everyone took the defeat as it was, now it appears the defeat was not as fair and honest as it was assumed to have been. We're perfectly entitled to feel this way. Whether you get away with or not, it does seem as if you've cheated.

Didn't Galway United withdraw Stephen O'Donnell and Karl Sheppard from the U23 squad for the trip to Estonia and they both played against Dundalk three days later? Galway allowed Seamus Conneely to travel to Estonia but he was suspended for the Dundalk game anyway.

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Originally Posted by CSFShels

Sour grapes? What are you talking about? Everyone took the defeat as it was, now it appears the defeat was not as fair and honest as it was assumed to have been. We're perfectly entitled to feel this way. Whether you get away with or not, it does seem as if you've cheated.

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Easy there, that's a very dodgy allegation to make

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Originally Posted by VinnyDCFC

Easy there, that's a very dodgy allegation to make

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Feel free to file a lawsuit if you do so desire.

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Originally Posted by CSFShels

Feel free to file a lawsuit if you do so desire.

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Please show the evidence that DCFC cheated, other than knee jerk reactions to what others have posted here and over on Shelsweb

PS: I am in no position to sue anybody

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-2355185.html

Tuesday September 28 2010

RECENTLY appointed Ireland U-18 and U-19 manager Paul Doolin has had to make five changes to his Airtricity League representative U-23 squad ahead of their International Challenge Trophy clash with Estonia tonight (9.0) in Tallinn, writes Neil Ahern.

Paul Skinner (Drogheda United), Paul Corry (UCD), Ross Gaynor (Dundalk), David McMillan (UCD) and Shane Duggan (Cork City Foras Co-op) have all been added to the 18-man squad in place of Stephen O'Donnell, Ronan Finn, Karl Sheppard, Jake Kelly and Darren Quigley, who all withdrew through injury.

RTE match report:

Friday, 1 October 2010

Dundalk 3-0 Galway United

Galway United: 1 Darragh Geraghty; 15 Tom King (19 Ger Cheevers, 86 mins), 20 Paul Sinnott, 14 Rhys Mennell, 17 Stephen Walsh; 7 Johnathon Keane; 16 Gary Curran, 8 Stephen O'Donnell, 11 Derek O'Brien; 9 Jason Molloy (12 Evan Preston Kelly, 65 mins), 10 Karl Sheppard.

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Originally Posted by The Lilywhites

Didn't Galway United withdraw Stephen O'Donnell and Karl Sheppard from the U23 squad for the trip to Estonia and they both played against Dundalk three days later? Galway allowed Seamus Conneely to travel to Estonia but he was suspended for the Dundalk game anyway.

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The five day stipulation seems excessive to me - it seems perfectly reasonable that a player could recover in 3 days - but they are still two quite different cases.

Galway withdrew their players from a match on 28/9 and played them on 1/10, 3 days after their (last) scheduled international.

Derry withdrew their player from matches on 7/10, 9/10 and 12/10 and played him on 9/10, 3 days before his last scheduled international.

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played him on 6/10

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Which game was this?

Sorry, I was convinced it was the 6th for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

The five day stipulation seems excessive to me - it seems perfectly reasonable that a player could recover in 3 days - but they are still two quite different cases.

Galway withdrew their players from a match on 28/9 and played them on 1/10, 3 days after their (last) scheduled international.

Derry withdrew their player from matches on 7/10, 9/10 and 12/10 and played him on 9/10, 3 days before his last scheduled international.

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They're not different.

Karl Sheppard played for Galway against Shamrock Rovers on 24/9, four days before the game in Estonia, and against Dundalk on 1/10, three days after Estonia. Doesn't sound like much of an injury to me.

Stephen O'Donnell was suspended for that game against Rovers. I have no doubt that he otherwise would have started in Tallaght too. He played the full 90 minutes the previous week against Rovers in the Cup and the full 90 minutes against Dundalk. Again, doesn't sound like he's too injured.

Also the U23 squad left for Estonia on 25/9 so how can Sheppard be fit for games on 10/9, 13/9, 17/9, 24/9, 1/10 and 9/10 (I've only checked the last six games) and not be fit and available for a trip to Estonia on 25/9 for a game on 28/9?

If Derry are guilty then so are Galway.

Derry withdrew McEleney from the trip which the squad left for on 2/10 and he played in Wexford on 1/10, as well as the week before against Mervue on 24/9. So yes it sounds like another bull**** story that he was injured. But if Derry said he was injured then you can't make him travel in the hope that he'll be fit to play a final group game (which in the end was a nothing game) ten days later.

The Galway case is exactly the same and there has been no word of sanctions against them. I'm also sure this has happened previously, it was just never highlighted. This story has gathered legs after a post here by a Finn Harps fan and now clutching-at-straws Shelbourne and Monaghan fans have jumped on the bandwagon to try to gain an advantage by default.

Nothing story.

They are clearly and demonstrably different.

SO the question now is- why would any club ever release a player for Ireland duty unless they felt like it?

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Originally Posted by The Lilywhites

Nothing story.

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It's clearly not a nothing story. If there's a rule which is being flagrantly flaunted, why have the rule? If you have some clubs playing by the rules and releasing players for international duty half a continent away four days before a league game, and other clubs saying "feck that", then you've clearly got something which needs to be addressed.

Derry City released him for the games so I hear but it was Patrick McEleney himself who then pulled out when he picked up an injury.

No case to answer and no case will be taken.

It happens in every international squad apparently.

If the F.A.I. didn't send a doctor to examine him then there can be no case to answer, thats what I'm hearing from a very good source!

http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk...FAI.6583038.jp

No case according to that.

Here is the statement given to the press this morning.

Mr A posted the link above.



15 October 2010
By KEVIN McLAUGHLIN
THE Football Association of Ireland (FAI) have confirmed they will not be taking any action towards Derry City.
It had been claimed that the Candystripes could be deducted three points after they fielded midfielder Patrick McEleney during last week's victory over Shelbourne.

The gifted midfielder pulled out of Paul Doolin's Republic of Ireland's Under 19 squad, which played Bulgaria, with an ankle problem, however the 18-year-old played a major role in City's win against Shels last Saturday.

It's believed the Dubliners made an enquiry to the FAI about McEleney's elegibility.

However a statement from the FAI insisted Stephen Kenny's side don't have a case to answer and no further action will be taken.

"The player (Patrick McEleney) was called into the Republic of Ireland Under-19 squad but contacted management to inform them that he was injured.

"As a result, he was withdrawn from the squad. By the time he had recovered from the injury he was no longer required to fulfil his international duties and so he was eligible to play for Derry City.

"Having established the facts with the assistance of the FAI International and Disciplinary Departments, we are satisfied that there is no action to be taken in relation to this matter."

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Last Updated: 15 October 2010 10:28 AM
Source: Londonderry Sentinel
Location: Waterside