Painful to watch.
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Painful to watch.
I said to someone that it was like a game from the 90s, Ireland could do nothing right.
When the French get their tails up there's no better team, they thrive on confidence and play at a pace that we can't live with.
One bad result doesn't invalidate a great run of results, but I think its a good time to look at what brand of rugby we're trying to play and plot a path to the World Cup. I strongly believe we need to play quicker more direct rugby, with more offloads, less going to ground and slow mauling.
That will dictate changes in the team, Hayes should get his century but we need to blood Mike Ross or Tom Court, and Redden or Boss need to play at 9, ditto Sexton.
Whilst we might win a few more games in the short-term playing our current style of rugby, we should have confidence in our talent pool and for the first time ever look beyond the next game.
I really thought we'd have a plan or two up our sleeve in readiness for the French blitz defence. Oh well. Wales will at least try something in a couple of weeks.
Sexton and Redden have to start.
The French 9/10 pairing was class. France deserved their win but we could have done better. Slow ball = no chance against that type of defence.
Flannery? What the hell was he thinking?
Hopefully we'll have a few more backs on the bench from now on. Murphy not match fit? I don't think Kearney's injury helped with all the rejigging.
I cannot even blame Barnes for the poor performance (cannot stand him and dread any time he ref's an Irish game). Oh well roll on England.
Barnes was still dreadful as usual. He missed every single forward pass, one of which led to an Irish try.
The Welsh will be lifted by their win I see a closer call there, I hope they win it and if we beat England it throws the doors open againQuote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
O'Gara's done little wrong to be fair but I tend to agree, I think O'Leary is too slow and predictable, Reddan at least will offer some variationQuote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
[The thing is up 'till the yellow card I thought we were the better team, a few grubber kicks behind the rush defence got them turned and going backwards, for some reason we stopped this entirely once we were behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
No idea, especially in Paris the place where cool heads are most needed, it was effectively an 80 metre swing in territory, madnessQuote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Earls & Wallace are vital for the bench slots imo because they can play so many positions, I never really rated Wallace but I think he's been one of our better performers so far despite his limited involvement. If Kearney is out Earls goes to full back and our options become more limited.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
easy now..... Barnes can still be blamed ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Sexton in to see what he can do, I think TOL has to keep his place, with maybe a recall for Stringer on the bench, he'd offer something different and that tactic worked pretty well for us last year. Both are still a class above Boss and Redden if you ask me.
only just had the balls to check out this thread following saturday mornings "performance". The summaries from endabob and shakermaker82 (in particular) are spot on.
It ws terrible to watch, absolutely terrible.
(ended up buying it off i-Setanta by the way for US$20, robbed!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by strangeirish
Did you miss the link I put up or did it not work for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
O'Gara & Kevin Myers slugging it out in the Indo, I have to say i think Myers article is a hatchet job by someone with little knowledge but O'gara shouldn't be taking the bait.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...s-2064681.html
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/le...s-2070434.html
Reflects badly on both. Taking the first opportunity to call Ireland losers after so many games unbeaten shows Myers' attitude to all things Irish. No one takes his rugby pronouncements as anything other than uninformed attention seeking and O'Gara should have more cop on than to legitimise it by replying.
That Myers article is like something a 10 year old would write, its embarrassing that a national newspaper would print that. Ronan has had worse things written about him by real experts and not responded, its funny that this ****ed him off so much. Myers seems to have an uncanny knack of getting under peoples skin.
sorry for delay in replying SI - missed the post. I tried the link but it didnt work straight away so i went with the payment option... thanks anyway!Quote:
Originally Posted by strangeirish
O'Gara is often made the scapegoat. He has his weaknesses but he also has many strengths. I'm glad Sexton is starting this weekend because I think it's his time. O'Gara on the bench as insurance if things go pear shaped. I am a little surprised O'Leary is starting. Hopefully somebody has shoved a rocket up his a$$.
I've always been Kidneys biggest fan, and still am, but he declared before the Autumn Internationals that players in form will be picked. Shane Horgan, Isaac Boss, Sean Cronin and Leo Cullen are all in better form than their selected counterparts. Best and Murphy are huge worries going into a game of this magnitude with so little game time under their belts.
England have won ugly in both their games to date. That worries me. Any side that contains the pace of Armitage, Monye, Tait, Flutey and Cueto, coupled with the power they have up front and a natural kicking machine to steer the ship has to be a threat. Luckily, Johnno seems to want to grind out games rather than let the backs loose and that will suit us.
We must limit the scrums. They WILL murder us in them. God help us if Tony Buckley has to come on. Sexton and O'Leary are crucial to this game. O'Learys box kicking has to improve 100% and he has to get back to his old game of being a ninth forward. Sexton, if he gets good ball, will use it.
I see the English targetting Earls under the high ball. He's not the biggest and could be suspect...Shane Horgan anyone???
I fancy us to win if England play the type of game they've played to date. If they start to move it, we're in trouble. Can't call it really.
Interesting selections I think Court is very unlucky to lose out, not even in the 22 considering he was one of the props to emerge with credit from Paris
O'Callaghan for Cullen is a mistake, cool heads required in Twickers, DO'C is not that.
Paddy Wallace is another one unlucky to lose out from the 22, I think he's been a real bright spot this season. I thought Earls would have gone to 15, Trimble or Horgan on the wing and Wallace as cover. Murphy's had very little game time but it could be argued he's very used to the opposition and has the experience, must have been a close call. Earls should be fine under the high ball, not the tallest but he played full back against the emerging Boks on the Lions tour in awful conditions and was probably the best player in a red shirt that evening.
No problems with Sexton for RoG although I agree with shakermaker, he's too often the easy scapegoat, in fact he's done very little wrong in the 2 games but Sexton's time is now.
O'Leary must in the last chance saloon, on current form he is arguably only the 4th best in the country at the moment.
Surprised to see O'Callaghan back in, I don't know how much more Cullen could have done.
I think we missed DOC work around the fringes. He does a lot of the ugly stuff and I think he compliments POC. Cullen was a monster in the lineout and did well but it's good to see the Munster man back.
I thought we'd have brought Horgan in just in case. Useful player to have on the bench. He can play on the wing or at centre.
Big test for Kidney. His team have went from heroes to zeroes but his man management skills are second to none and I'm sure the players will try and prove a point to some of 'our' journalists. If O'Gara comes on I'm sure he'll be brilliant. I was as disappointed as anybody after the French game but the sign of a good team is how they react to adversity. Beating England gets us back on track. Fingers crossed. The last time we went to Twickenham was a nightmare. Let us avenge that for starters!
DOC being back in is not a big shock Kidney is loyal to certain players type of manager he is. Cullen was excellent in the line out but as already said DOC gives you more at the breakdown which will be very important if England stick to what appears to have been there only plan to date bully there way forward using the pack.
TOL should not be starting he has been poor and very easy to read on games to date but who else Reddan having a bad season, Stringer not enough game time and if picking on form should be Boss best Irish scrum half last couple of Heinken Cup weekends for some reason though not even on bench. Maybe the rumoured move to Leinster will help him internationally.
Sexton for O'Gara is not a shock Sexton offers more attacking option yes his game is lacking in some areas but Sexton is a more modern fly half with a better all round game than O'Gara. O'Gara is a great player for Ireland but his lack to go forward is being highlighted more and more often. O'Gara should not be made the scapegoat for France Ireland not good enough against France and that is what it boils down to several Irish players did not produce on the day not just O'Gara and it is unfair to blame him alone
Hat's off to Kidney, he got it spot on again. TOL stepped up his game and ROG did the business coming off the bench.
I thought O'Leary was quite average again at best. His kicking is poor, and he's stepping before every pass now. Good defensively, but nowhere near the standards of Parra, Care, Cussiter t date in this tournament. Rog won the game for us I thought with his tactical kicking and more guarded outlook. That said, I thought Sexton had a massive game apart from his place kicking, and will retain his place against Wales. Heaslip was awesome. The boy's got some engine on him. Tony Buckley had a huge game around the field when he came on, and stole the ball at the end to put paid to Englands last chance. Bowe, well no comments required, and Earls had a great game also. We attempted 100 tackles during this game and made 99 of them...Hats off to Les Kiss!! They completely routed us possession wise, yet we won 3-1 on tries. This was as big a victory as I can remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
if there is a better defensive outfit (especially in the rucks and mauls) in the northern hemisphere then id be surprised. That was an immense performance. Heaslip, Ferris, Bowe and Sexton all had superb games and the lineout disruption is a thing of sheer beauty. Thist eam is the real deal and Sexton is a WC winning outhalf - unshakeable even after missing a few kicks.
Great result especially considering the territorial and tackle stats. Earls and Bowe were excellent, Murphy deserves a mention as well considering the match practice he has had lately. ROG did very well when he came on, decent game by Sexton though his kicking was poor. The experience will stand to him and these are the types of games (when the championship is realistically gone) to be blending in new players. Good to see Buckley come on and play reasonably well, the scrum is a concern and the likes of Hayes dont have long left in the tank and we need to see players stepping up to the mark in those positions. Lineout very strong, dont think we lost a single of our lineouts and was so often the start of good play by us.
Good win for the U20s as well, the future is bright for Irish rugby, as was noted in a few of the english papers yesterday, the provincial system does seem to be working much better than the premiership style system employed in England. Danny Care also getting a slating from the English papers yesterday as well from the overturned peno, twice in two years.
Should Ireland not be worried though as to why we got so little possession? Teams more competent than England (e.g. France, NZ) would have beaten us with such possession. Does that mean that the forwards were well beaten or why did England have so much possession.
Great win though and enjoyed seeing Johnson suffering the pain of it. Teach him to stand on the wrong side of the carpet ;)
Ireland had all the possession against France and couldn't do anything with it 3 weeks ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
This England side are slow, ponderous, predictable and don't take many chances so when in possession of the ball they soon rack up the phases but end up going backwards. This will eventually lead them to getting turned over or resorting to booting it back (they didn't do much of the latter for this match. Probably because of the stick they got after the Italy game.)
The only reason England were still in the game was because we kept giving away stupid penalties. We must stampt this out.
The reason England were in the game was because our scrum was a disastrophy of epic proportions for nearly all the game. Taking my green tinted glasses off, we were lucky not to concede a penalty try, and had Care not been so boneheaded in getting the penalty reversed the game probably would've gone against us.
Our lineout isn't far off being excellent, but unless we get some semblance of parity with the top teams in the scrum we might as well write the script for the World Cup now. Packs win games, backs decide the score. An old stereotype, but never a truer phrase spoken.
Healy is having somewhat of a baptism of fire but I believe it will stand him in good stead, its a huge step up to international rugby and hopefully it will pay off next season. I was also disappointed in Buckley coming in in place of Court, who should have a brighter future ahead of him. That said, in his time on the pitch Mushy looked much more involved and up with the pace of the game than I've seen him for either Munster or Ireland.
Saturday will be a good test. Wales are still a decent side and after last year they'll need little encouragement to get stuck into Ireland.
I think Earls and Ferris are settling into the team nicely and could go on fire in a big way on Saturday.
I think Ireland could have turned the screw at any moment against England. How long were we behind for, like three minutes? We basically played conservatively, taking what was in front of us. Even if they had got a penalty try, I think we were capable of stepping up a gear whenever we wanted, much like the French were against us.
Healy is doing well, tighthead remains the issue. I also thought Court was unlucky, particularly as he did well against France when coming on and that he can play loose or tighthead. Tough on Hayes, but he's got to be looking dodgy for the World Cup, in which case we should be biting the bullet and blooding a tighthead - either Buckley or Court with the other on the bench. Not happening against Wales anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
A 6 Nations game where a Triple Crown and outside chance of the championship is still on the line is no place to be blooding anyone. Buckley seems to be upping his game and is even scrummaging a little better so that is positive and in the longer term he is probably a more suitable replacement for the Bull. What really concerns me is how our lineout is going to suffer when Hayes does have to pack it in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Good news Argentina in the Tri-Nations from 2012
http://www.trinationsweb.com/news/vi...e.asp?id=24775
Thought this was decided already tbh. The Pumas 2nd/3rd string is playing in the Vodacom Cup (level below Currie Cup in SA) this season as the first step towards integration. A couple of Puma players have moved to Super 14 teams in advance of the changeQuote:
Originally Posted by WexCar
Buckley will be 31 when the World Cup rolls around and regardless of whether he's good enough or not (and he isn't) he's not the solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorballer
Also, I can't help but thing the whole Hayes lineout thing has been built up to something bigger than it actually is. I've no doubt he's good at it, but these days you need two or three pods and a fair bit of variety to have a successful lineout.
Until we find a world class front row unit then decent scrummaging sides will always bash us around a bit. Hayes is on his last legs. Time for Court or Buckley to step up.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
All I know is this is the 1st I've heard of it being confirmed.Quote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
Its hard to stay up to date with all the rugby news out here where the only sport that exists is Ice-Hockey, it can get quite annoying and time consuming having to trawl the internet for all the bits of news floating around.....ah well I shall continue.
Wasn't meaning to be an ar$e, sorry if it came accross that way...Quote:
Originally Posted by WexCar
Having done some research it looks like they were invited in September pending the meeting of some guidelines, one of which was financial which is why the IRB have stepped in now.
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...0914-fnot.html
They still have be confirmed though, the players playing in Europe seems to be the major stumbling block
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post...r-Four-Nations
The Sharks signed Juan Martin Hernandez, but he's missed most of the season with injury, it was supposed to be the first of a few Pumas moving to Super 14 clubs in advance of the Pumas move.
I'd agree with that - it's a cover for the scrummaging. However, he/Ireland did put more emphasis on the line out role. I didn't realise that Buckley was that old, in which case he isn't the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I do take the point about the Triple Crown to some degree, but then that does kinda show limited ambition. Something that people were quick to criticise O'Sullivan for in fairness.
On the puma's, possibly the six nations missed a trick here by not inviting them into the Championship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5UKF...layer_embedded
2:21 in this video
2 Italy forwards needed to lift Carlo Del Fava. Hayes lifts O'Connell by himself.
Whats your point though? However strong he is he can only lift one jumper and be in one place in the lineout at the one time. Whilst lifting quick and high is important, having three or four jumpers for variety, accuracy of throw and the timing between jumpers and thrower is more important in having a successful lineout.
Don't get me wrong, Hayes is a class act in the lineout, but I don't see all the credit being dished to the French and Italian props for Harinordoquy and Parisse's aerial ability (two of the best lineout operators in the world IMO).
Probably should have mentioned, I wasn't saying you were wrong. He is just freakishly strong.
good performance so far. Opportunistic anyway! But whats happened to Sextons place kicking? Nightmare and we could and should be out of sight...