Giovanni Trappatoni - Well Done

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Originally Posted by weldoninhio

Who's going to the WC??

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ha ha - that's not what you predicted though. In fact you stated definitively that France would win 3-0 on Wednesday and they never looked like doing that. You also said that Trapattoni would play anti-football but we haven't seen you retract that yet. Welcome back nonetheless.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

It's pretty clear what Dolan's game is.

The bigger the success Trapattoni is, the angrier Pat Dolan appears to get. I say appears because I don't read what he says and never saw him on the telly but he sounds like he's lost the plot.

Dolan seems to believe he and his fellow LOI managers could manage the Irish national team. What a joke. If these managers were truely good enough they would be making millions abroad.

A succession of the best LOI managers tried their luck in recent years in Scotland and England and all were abysmal failures and that was lower level clubs in England and Scotland.

If Ireland qualified for the WC and did well Dolan would just get angrier and angrier. The day anyone heeds what Dolan has to say about football will be a sad day indeed.

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:rolleyes:

A manager is a manager. Its a damning inditement of our national mentality if players won't respect a LOI manager. Any LOI manager that guides his team to league titles and progression in Europe should definetly be considered for any Irish job.

Trapattoni has won 23 major trophies in Europe and been a manager at the highest level for 35 years. If he was not a good manager over a consistant period, he would now be managing a lower division team somewhere.

23 major European trophies against a few LOI titles. Who do you think is better qualified.

Roddy Collins and the Derry manager went to England and Scotland and both were considered top LOI managers. They flopped over there. Pat Fenlon would flop too as Irish manager, and he would be laughed at by the Irish players in any case.

The LOI is probably the equivalent of League 1 or 2 in England. Would you have a manager from there manage the Irish team?

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Originally Posted by irishultra

:rolleyes:

A manager is a manager. Its a damning inditement of our national mentality if players won't respect a LOI manager. Any LOI manager that guides his team to league titles and progression in Europe should definetly be considered for any Irish job.

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Cannot agree with this - ridiculous comment...you need to be consistently managing at a very high level if you can me considered for Irish Job (Kerr and Staunton have we not learned)...Traps managing of Juventus , Inter Milan, Bayern Munich and Italys national team speaks volumes, all due respects to Pat Fenlon he has never managed anywhere near the same level of players or dealt with similar pressures or different tactical scenarios so he should never be even short listed for Future Irish position unless of course he upgrades CV

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Originally Posted by SkStu

http://i35.tinypic.com/25incax.jpg

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thats quality. me and too makes were there when the bloke took that photo too!

Dolan was pretty sound I have to say

A high level like Mick McCarthy and Jack Charlton?

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Originally Posted by irishultra

A high level like Mick McCarthy and Jack Charlton?

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At least they both played at the highest level, in Charltons case won a world cup

Traps next mission is to blood a few new players in the friendlies before the European Championship quallifiers start next season. First and foremost is a left full. Delaney isn't good enough and never will be. The only player I can think of is Stephen Ward, who is recovering from injury, he is back in light training so hopefully he will start back in.

Other players who deserve a look at is
Marc Wilson (Portsmouth)
Chris McCann (Burnley) when he recovers from injury
Owen Garvan (Ipswich)
Andy Keogh (Wolves) up front

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Trapattoni has won 23 major trophies in Europe and been a manager at the highest level for 35 years. If he was not a good manager over a consistant period, he would now be managing a lower division team somewhere.

23 major European trophies against a few LOI titles. Who do you think is better qualified.

Roddy Collins and the Derry manager went to England and Scotland and both were considered top LOI managers. They flopped over there. Pat Fenlon would flop too as Irish manager, and he would be laughed at by the Irish players in any case.

The LOI is probably the equivalent of League 1 or 2 in England. Would you have a manager from there manage the Irish team?

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Steve Staunton or Pat Fenlon? Who would you pick Emmet?

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Originally Posted by Reality Bites

Now the Dust has settled, I think its time to thank the manager who despite all the criticism from small men like Dunphy and Curtis proved himself to be a brillant appointment, Trap was cruelly denied a place in World cup with a Team which was very much moulded in his philosphy of the game and we should remember a Team that was in tatters after the Kerr and Staunton eras.

Keith Andrews and Glenn Whelan were hero's on Wednesday night who prospered through Traps belief in these players and the system they were playing in. 18 months ago who had heard of Keith Andrews, now he will live long in the memory as a hero of Stade de France. Sport isn't always Fair but we should be very pleased this man is managing us for the Euro Qualifiers.

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I agree 100%

Also fair play to Denis O'Brien, football in this country doesnt have too many benefactors but it was good of him to step in not once but twice and as a result we have a WC manager. Look at Scotland for example and their search for a manager, nowt too exciting showing up there. We've done well to get Trap. He has done well for us. Progress all round to date and almost almost success as well.

I particulary liked how he mentioned at the press conference the other day that his dream is to lead Ireland to the WC in 2014 to erase the France nightmare.

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

At least they both played at the highest level,

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So did Staunton

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Trapattoni: The metaphor that springs to my mind is that of a student taking an exam. He could have done more during the year, maybe he left out some parts of the course, some of his homework was late and maybe his performance in class was a bit uninspiring at times, but in the big exam he was very well prepared and just missed out on the highest mark.

Stan on the other hand attended every lecture & tutorial and was an enthusiastic student but flunked the exam badly.

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Excellent anaology. If I could take it a little further. Lets say the student is at a very expensive private college that his family are busting their balls off in very tough times to pay for. Would said family not be justifyibly ****ed, if in the face of their efforts he was skiving off classes and not completing CA's, knowing that the talented little poindexter is dangerously relying solely on his cappacity to sit exams to get him through??

I'm delighted with the leaps made under Trapp. But with a little more or even redirection of effort during his tenure I don't think Gibson would have been the best midfielder on the bench in Paris, or Keogh the best right sided midfeilder in the sqaud in Bari (esp given the performance of Lawrence since he came in). The focus (Or reliance) on consistency is counter productive in a playing pool as limited as ours.

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Originally Posted by gustavo

So did Staunton

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I was more talking about Pat Fenlon really, but to be honest I dont even believe that not playing at the highest level should matter. It hasnt mattered to the likes of Wenger.Im a League Of Ireland fan but as Ive said before with players, its not a high enough standard of league to prepare a player or manager for international football. It just annoys me that some people are overly critical of Trapattoni while saying that Fenlon is some sort of genius(he might well be, but he needs to do more than win a league of Ireland to prove it)

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Originally Posted by EastTerracer

ha ha - that's not what you predicted though. In fact you stated definitively that France would win 3-0 on Wednesday and they never looked like doing that. You also said that Trapattoni would play anti-football but we haven't seen you retract that yet. Welcome back nonetheless.:rolleyes:

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Ok i was wrong about 3-0, but as many posters in here have pointed out to me when i was critical of Traps "style" of play in the qualifiers, its the result that counts. If we can go to paris and play like that, why have we spent the entire qualifying campaign trying to nick a goal from a set piece and then sitting back and trying to defend it??

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Originally Posted by weldoninhio

Ok i was wrong about 3-0, but as many posters in here have pointed out to me when i was critical of Traps "style" of play in the qualifiers, its the result that counts. If we can go to paris and play like that, why have we spent the entire qualifying campaign trying to nick a goal from a set piece and then sitting back and trying to defend it??

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They did play a very similar game for an hour in Bari (I know it was against 10 men but the Italians would probably have sat back on a 1-0 lead anyway). I just get the feeling that Trapp thinks playing like that is somehow reckless and he will only let the team off the leash when they have nothing to lose. Like everyone I'd love him to change his approach but I get the feeling he won't change tactics that easily.

am i missing something in the aftermath of henrys shenanigans, but in all the coverage i have listened to and read we have been told several times that the referees decision is final and nothing will change his decisions made during the match. so how come tv coverage can be used to either enforce or rescind red and yellow cards afterwards, or this under another set of rules?

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Originally Posted by drummerboy

Traps next mission is to blood a few new players in the friendlies before the European Championship quallifiers start next season.

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I'd be very disappointed if he didnt include players that can change a match for us (like andy reid) in the squads.

He obviously brought alot of organisation to the team and gave them alot of belief - dont mind it being boring to watch, as its a results business - and his first 11 is hard to argue with.

Though he should really let the team have a go at teams more before its too late - and should be including players in the squad that can help change the match (id also include delap in the squad - not a bad player and his throws would be very beneficial in the last few minutes if were chasing a goal).

If he doesnt let the players have a go or try to change matches, we can look forward to another group of only beating 2 poor teams :(

Also looking forward to seeing more of noel hunt in the euros campaign.

Trap has done an unbelievable job when you consider the absolute mess we were in. I would go so far as to say if we had qualified for the world cup it would be the greatest managerial achievement we've ever had when you consider the players jack had and the players (non-players steve england etc..) trappatoni has had. He's really brought the buzz back around the national team. I put the crap atmosphere for the last couple of years partly down to croke park, but the atmosphere at the Italy and France matches was as good as ever I remember in Landsdowne and its all thanks to trappatoni. hats off to the man

Trapp was apparently at the Portsmouth Burnley game, and the Sunderland Fulham game on Sunday. 10 months before the next competitive game. Credit where it's due and all...

was it just wilson playing in the ports v burnley game?!

Its just annoying we have so many players playing in teams that are going to be relegated. Especially the likes of wilson who is a real prospect.

thanks to trap the players have rediscovered their desire to play and win for ireland.if stan had still been in charge for that last campaign, many of our older players like kilbane, given, dunne and duff may well be considering their international future right now. instead we have a group of lads who will be 100% commited to get revenge and qualify for the euros

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

was it just wilson playing in the ports v burnley game?!

Its just annoying we have so many players playing in teams that are going to be relegated. Especially the likes of wilson who is a real prospect.

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Possibly to talk to O'Hara too, if the Radio was to be believed. He'll be back at Spurs when Portsmouth go down though.

I hear ye though, re Wilson. I wonder would Redknapp take a punt on him???

One of the lads there reminded me Trappatoni wasn't FIFA's 'flavour of the month' in the light of recent events, given the fuss he made about Italy being probably cheated by S.Korea in 2002.

Which is another plus, with hindsight, in my book.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

was it just wilson playing in the ports v burnley game?!

Its just annoying we have so many players playing in teams that are going to be relegated. Especially the likes of wilson who is a real prospect.

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Finnan was at right back as well

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

Possibly to talk to O'Hara too, if the Radio was to be believed. He'll be back at Spurs when Portsmouth go down though.

I hear ye though, re Wilson. I wonder would Redknapp take a punt on him???

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Possibly, he was reserve player of the year while Redknapp was in charge

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

Trapp was apparently at the Portsmouth Burnley game, and the Sunderland Fulham game on Sunday. 10 months before the next competitive game. Credit where it's due and all...

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If I didn't know you as well I'm not sure I'd have detected the sarcasm.

Ha!! :) No... I was actually sincere in that one. Didn't expect to see him at a game this side of Easter!!

Not well done. It was only against France that the players were allowed to play. We should have won our group.

Some poster contended that, if we played this open football in the group stages we would have been slaughtered. HOW RIDICULOUS…Georgia, Cyprus and Bulgaria would have ripped us apart where as France could not?? and in fact we beat them 1-0 in Paris!!!

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Originally Posted by Scram

Not well done. It was only against France that the players were allowed to play. We should have won our group.

Some poster contended that, if we played this open football in the group stages we would have been slaughtered. HOW RIDICULOUS…Georgia, Cyprus and Bulgaria would have ripped us apart where as France could not?? and in fact we beat them 1-0 in Paris!!!

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Saying we should have won the group rather than could have won the group is a big statement. For a start, much was made of our luck but Italy got luck in spades throughout this campaign.

I'd tend towards arguing that his first job was to make us cohesive again, achieve confidence by being hard to beat and then build on that platform to ultimately produce the type of performance we did in Paris.

I'm not sure we'd have been capable of producing that performance a year ago.

It's where we go from here that will be the next test.

It's a long time since I have felt this confident that we are going to a very nice place.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Saying we should have won the group rather than could have won the group is a big statement. For a start, much was made of our luck but Italy got luck in spades throughout this campaign.

I'd tend towards arguing that his first job was to make us cohesive again, achieve confidence by being hard to beat and then build on that platform to ultimately produce the type of performance we did in Paris.

I'm not sure we'd have been capable of producing that performance a year ago.

It's where we go from here that will be the next test.

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Correct! Traps first Job was to rebuild shape and moral in the Irish team which takes a couple of games both friendlies and qualifiers, The qualifying group was approached in a tactical manner with a big emphasis on NOT LOSING and picking up vital points along the way particularly away from home, Trap mastered this brief very well I think.

By the time the Irish team played that match in Paris I think they were inculcated in Traps philosphy they believed what he was telling them and approached that Final match under instructions from the manager to go for and they did.

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Originally Posted by geysir

It's a long time since I have felt this confident that we are going to a very nice place.

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Mosney?

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Originally Posted by geysir

It's a long time since I have felt this confident that we are going to a very nice place.

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FIFa have already said 'Non' !

:D

I have moved on, like our great ex manager Jack Charlton said

"But it's all happened, it's over with and Ireland have to move on and move on fast. There are better times ahead and the only way they can get over this and forget about it is by putting it right next time around"

It's just that it's 10 months until the next competition and an annoying WC tournament in the middle.

perhaps zimbabwe might invade SA in june and the WC will have to be called off/suspended.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Saying we should have won the group rather than could have won the group is a big statement. For a start, much was made of our luck but Italy got luck in spades throughout this campaign.

I'd tend towards arguing that his first job was to make us cohesive again, achieve confidence by being hard to beat and then build on that platform to ultimately produce the type of performance we did in Paris.

I'm not sure we'd have been capable of producing that performance a year ago.

It's where we go from here that will be the next test.

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We should have won the group. We should have won all our home games. Merely making a team cohesive is not something any decent manager would point to as an achievement. Nor is "a year ago" i.e. “better than Stan” any pointer.

Indeed, we looked far from cohesive in the majority of games, after we scored goals the supposed “structure” was nowhere to be seen. A couple of lucky breaks against mediocre opposition and Italy got us in to second place.

We produced a great performance in Paris under Kerr with 4-5-1 including Andy Reid, this was never built on nor was there mass acclaim for Kerr’s achievements in that campaign.

If Trappatoni was Irish and treated Andy Reid as he has done he would be vilified and removed. Most views on here are clouded by his reputation and the fact that he is Italian. Looking at the statistics and the details of games, not a great performance by any means.

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Originally Posted by Scram

We should have won the group. We should have won all our home games. Merely making a team cohesive is not something any decent manager would point to as an achievement. Nor is "a year ago" i.e. “better than Stan” any pointer.

Indeed, we looked far from cohesive in the majority of games, after we scored goals the supposed “structure” was nowhere to be seen. A couple of lucky breaks against mediocre opposition and Italy got us in to second place.

We produced a great performance in Paris under Kerr with 4-5-1 including Andy Reid, this was never built on nor was there mass acclaim for Kerr’s achievements in that campaign.

If Trappatoni was Irish and treated Andy Reid as he has done he would be vilified and removed. Most views on here are clouded by his reputation and the fact that he is Italian. Looking at the statistics and the details of games, not a great performance by any means.

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Anyone outside of Irish football support and a supporter of the game in general would find the above statement to be simply ludicrous.

On paper at the start of the campaign second place in this group seem a stretch for the players at our disposal. I think we were dogged at times and difficult to watch particularly away to Cyprus, but the ends justify the means and we got a result which firmly set us on the way to second place finish..What Trap achieved with Whelan and Andrews was remarkable, who would have thought these guys would have preformed with such strength of character and determination in Paris let alone knew much about either player at the start of campaigh. The manager believed in these players and they in turn returned that believe with a midfield display that hasn't been seen in years.
One of the most important things I alluded to above is the Team Spirit. At last we have a collection of players with character, they are a tight bunch and seem to be enjoying playing under the new management, hence no retirements or sulky displays. The same cannot be said for the Kerr and Staunton eras with widespread unrest and a good many retirements some natural others disillusioned.

Andy Reid has responded superbly to his banishment from the Irish Squad, he has lost weigh and is playing the best football of his career. Why? because for the first time he has been punished for neglecting a God given talent which he has failed to capitalise on through laziness. Reids sudden self-examination would not have been possible without Traps harsh treatment of him in the first place and now I believe the time is set for Reid to be rewarded with a call-up which will happen.

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If Trappatoni was Irish and treated Andy Reid as he has done he would be vilified and removed

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Sorry, but thats just not true. If an "Irish born Trap" had that same campaign, they would be rightly praised.

And as good as Kerr's team's perfomance was in Paris, the performance put in by Trap's Ireland was simply better.

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Originally Posted by Uncle_Joe

Sorry, but thats just not true. If an "Irish born Trap" had that same campaign, they would be rightly praised.

And as good as Kerr's team's perfomance was in Paris, the performance put in by Trap's Ireland was simply better.

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With worse players too probably, or at least players such as duff, finnan etc who were in their prime etc.

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Originally Posted by Scram

We produced a great performance in Paris under Kerr with 4-5-1 including Andy Reid, this was never built on nor was there mass acclaim for Kerr’s achievements in that campaign.

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thats because we finished fourth in the group and threw leads away against Israel twice in that campaign. most of your other points are plain ridiculous and full of contradiction. we were a mess after stan and we are now a decent team, something we have not been since june 2002