Post Match and looking ahead

Well there goes all that about this French team being poor and there for the taking. They were quality, so quick and so skillful to always play the ball out from the back whenever they were in trouble. Anelka ran the show, his movement caused our system a lot of problems with people not really knowing who should pick him up. Overall though Trap's system worked a treat yet again. France were so good that they would have hammered us had we come out and attacked often (they could have scored a couple in the last ten minutes when we did have a go), instead we restricted them to shots from distance. One day we'll get that bit of luck that sees our shot bounce off a player and go in off the post!

Dunne had a couple of scary moments, and O'Shea's distrubution was awful which was a pity. Once we had it at the back we were far far to quick to get rd of the ball and ended booting it up the pitch too quickly, so even when our front two did win the ball they had no-one in the box to look for. Whelan and Andrews were great though I thought, while Lawrence worked hard too...but my god he'll be having nightmares about that miss. Robbie was fantastic tonight I thought, even the way he found Whelan right at the end for that chance. He deserves to go to a world cup again.

One thing I thought was strange was McGeady's positioning when he came on, he practically played up front instead of going wide where he can cause problems. Strange decision, so strange that I don't think it would have come from Trap but maybe he drifted inside naturally for some reason. Leon Best looked very poor when he came on too for a knackered Doyle.

What do we do for Wednesday? Really we need to just pray for getting a slice of luck. We need to be tight at the back and not change the system from today's to ensure we don't get hammered 2-0, 3-0. Play the way we did, but hope that we catch France on the break a bit more than today. For that reason I'd consider changing both wingers, drop Duff and Lawrence for Hunt and McGeady who's pace might be a big help to us on the break and be a better out ball.
Maybe just maybe we'll see a shot from 30 yards take a bad bounce and loop over Lloris. Sadly there's a gulf in class between the two teams so its going to take something like that to give us a chance. The lads have been magnificent in this campaign, and the fact that we can go to Paris very much in the tie is a credit to them and to Trapattoni.

90 minutes left and I'll fly out on Monday morning with some belief left. Get stuck in to them, upset them like we did at the final whistle, quieten the french crowd (who were awful tonight I thought), get an early goal, get a lucky break, get a better referee than tonight (did we win a single 50/50 all game, the linesmen made a couple of howlers too) and maybe just maybe. Unlikely yes, but remember footballing miracles do happen. And I think we deserve one to happen to us for a change.

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Originally Posted by Spanner

Relevance: questionable.
Age profile: 0
Maturity: Low
Personal Importance: 100%

NY'er? :eek: Ex-pat -:rolleyes:

EDIT: Left out the word 'awesome' somewhere in my post(s).

Awesome dude. Touchdown.

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Agree with everything you say mate. This is his usual contribution. He is without doubt the biggest imbecile on this forum.

May be repeating an earlier post that seemed to fail but I thought the first half was about the best we could muster against a team of that calibre, so a bit depressing in tha sense. Centre-mid did its job very well but evidently faded in the second half as Andrews tired and France upped their game.

Is the sitting back and letting the opposition have the ball thing a tactic or just poor play on our part? I think it's both. It's happened in too many games for it not to be a Trap instruction. It'll be interesting to see if he changes his tactics in Paris now that we have to go for broke. Doubt it somehow.

Interestingly, for all this talk of Domenech being a loony, there was no evidence of that in his team's performance tonight. Thought they sussed us out quite well overall.

I doubt Best was sent on solely to help the midfielders but it's not a positive sign if that's the case, Trap probably admitting we were losing out in midfield. I guess it was to put in more tackles in midfield.

I think Leon Best should start in Paris alongside our best finisher Keane. The Doyle-Keane combination just isn't delivering the goals and without goals we won't win matches. Both are nice footballers and all that, but they don't have the muscle to dominate defenders. That's the main reason we don't score from open play, only setpieces.

Best is awkward and I would say cause the French defenders more problems than Doyle would.

No doubt Trap will change it for Wednesday with probably Best up front. The starting team tonight struggled to threathen the French defence. We need all out attack from the off in Paris.

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Originally Posted by endabob1

I don't think we're coming back from that

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I don't see why not. France had all the ball and created very little- we had very little ball and contrived to make ourselves look dangerous on occasion.

France are not that great; like ourselves, they lack a driving force, a character to take a game by the scruff and drag it over the line. Andrews tried to step up tonight but got tired. Robbie Keane isn't capabale of it, no matter how many captain's arbands he has.
Dunne showed he might be the man to do it- after the final whistle had gone.

On to Paris- by the end of that game we will probably have Hunt and Best on again, with Lawrence having played his part. A different referee may give us more free kicks than we saw tonight, in better positions. We may just find that putting our foot on it and passing it properly is not so dangerous after all.

The show is only just beginning.

Sorry to ask a question twice, but could anyone tell me the reason for the bust-up?

Well, that was like paying 50 snots to watch Henry and Anelka pass it to each other for 90 minuted

Hard to say it but Domenech's tactics were superior. With TH and NA playing off the stirker, but out wide, we had no idea how to stop them

Anelka gave the balla way once in 90 minutes - remarkable performance and Henry won every ball in the air

Robbie Keane is really struggling - keeps giving it away and is more interested in being hard done by than in actually playing


Men and boys

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Originally Posted by OwenGoal

Is the sitting back and letting the opposition have the ball thing a tactic or just poor play on our part? I think it's both. It's happened in too many games for it not to be a Trap instruction. It'll be interesting to see if he changes his tactics in Paris now that we have to go for broke. Doubt it somehow.

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Its a tactic. We let them have all the ball they want in their own half and central areas. If we get too tight, our players aren't good enough, and their players are too good. A quick triangle of passes, burst of pace or skillful trick/turn and suddenly we're caught out of position, and leave a gap for Henry/Anelka/Gignac to run in to. So the gameplan is to mark space and ensure that they wont pass the ball through us, instead they're forced wide to cross the ball in to the box which we've a much better chance of defending, or take pot shots from distance which when you have Given in goal is a safe enough thing to reduce them too (until they get a lucky break as they did tonight!).

The only time they did pass through us and created chances to run at Dunne and Kilbane was in the last ten minutes when Whelan/Andrews were pushing on and so moved out of their usual 'zone'. The fact that we don't harry and hussle the way the Irish footballing mentality automatically thinks of (how many times in the first half were France on the ball, going nowhere, everyone marked up and not an inch of room only for the crowd to start demanding "pressure"!) is the reason we've come so far in this group, and thats the exact reason why we can't change the system going to Paris, we just have to hope that its our luck that changes.

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Originally Posted by Angus

Well, that was like paying 50 snots to watch Henry and Anelka pass it to each other for 90 minuted

Hard to say it but Domenech's tactics were superior. With TH and NA playing off the stirker, but out wide, we had no idea how to stop them

Anelka gave the balla way once in 90 minutes - remarkable performance and Henry won every ball in the air

Robbie Keane is really struggling - keeps giving it away and is more interested in being hard done by than in actually playing


Men and boys

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Are you mad? Domenech's tactics were superior because he had a player who ran the show from the first minute and didn't give the ball away but once. If only Trap had have thought of telling Whelan to be one of the best players in the world eh :rolleyes:

It was men & boys, you're right, and the fact it was 1-0 thanks to a deflected shot that smacked off the post, whilst we also had 3 good chances is proof that we had our tactics correct.

And Robbie isn't struggling at all, he played very well tonight.

If anyone thinks we will go to France and get a result, they are totally deluded. They are far superior to us and that is with them not getting out of first gear.

Just back from the game. Bitterly disappointed. Was all going to plan in the 1st half. Apart from Anelka, France didn't look a threat. It all went downhill in the 2nd. We gave them far too much space and Anelka duly obliged.

After the goal, there was no urgency from us at all. No winning mentality has been installed. Our best midfielder isn't even being named in the squad.

I just get the impression that Trappatoni presumes that we would hold them off. Once we went behind, the lads looked lost. Not taking off Robbie Keane was another mistake. He was poor. Yet again he is immune from being taken off.

France weren't great and didn't seem bothered either but between Anelka and whoever their left back is (Diarra I think), they had enough quality to deserve the win.

We only have a small hope now. An early goal is crucial. 1-0 and France will only see us out over ET. 2-1 is our best chance tbh. A small one at that.


Oh and Kevin Doyle MOTM?!?! It was Lawrence by a mile. Nobody else even came close.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

Are you mad? Domenech's tactics were superior because he had a player who ran the show from the first minute and didn't give the ball away but once. If only Trap had have thought of telling Whelan to be one of the best players in the world eh :rolleyes:

It was men & boys, you're right, and the fact it was 1-0 thanks to a deflected shot that smacked off the post, whilst we also had 3 good chances is proof that we had our tactics correct.

And Robbie isn't struggling at all, he played very well tonight.

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2 of those chances were French errors.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

Are you mad? Domenech's tactics were superior because he had a player who ran the show from the first minute and didn't give the ball away but once. If only Trap had have thought of telling Whelan to be one of the best players in the world eh :rolleyes:

It was men & boys, you're right, and the fact it was 1-0 thanks to a deflected shot that smacked off the post, whilst we also had 3 good chances is proof that we had our tactics correct.

And Robbie isn't struggling at all, he played very well tonight.

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Yes but, all of the pre match talk was around the players not trusting RD etc etc - and while I respect your opinion on Robbie, I cannot agree. I work for a company with abig office in the UK and all of the spurs fans rave about robbie for spurs - but I just can't see it. He looks to me like he is trying to look good rather than to be effective

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Originally Posted by MeathDrog

2 of those chances were French errors.

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Most of their chances were errors by us, their goal was very lucky. Not many teams are going to carve open France, we just have to hope that we take our chances next time however they come.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

Most of their chances were errors by us, their goal was very lucky. Not many teams are going to carve open France, we just have to hope that we take our chances next time however they come.

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Their goal was a deflection but it was coming. We simply didn't put on the pressure in the 2nd half. It was clear from the 1st minute that Anelka was the dangerman and he punished us for allowing him to move forward.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

I doubt Best was sent on solely to help the midfielders but it's not a positive sign if that's the case, Trap probably admitting we were losing out in midfield. I guess it was to put in more tackles in midfield.

I think Leon Best should start in Paris alongside our best finisher Keane. The Doyle-Keane combination just isn't delivering the goals and without goals we won't win matches. Both are nice footballers and all that, but they don't have the muscle to dominate defenders. That's the main reason we don't score from open play, only setpieces.

Best is awkward and I would say cause the French defenders more problems than Doyle would.

No doubt Trap will change it for Wednesday with probably Best up front. The starting team tonight struggled to threathen the French defence. We need all out attack from the off in Paris.

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Why would you leave out Keano? He cant score if he doesnt get the ball and there was no one capable of giving it to him. The usual hoof it up the pitch job. 'ANDY REID SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE' no two ways about it.

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Originally Posted by Guidedbyvoices

Why would you leave out Keano? He cant score if he doesnt get the ball and there was no one capable of giving it to him. The usual hoof it up the pitch job. 'ANDY REID SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE' no two ways about it.

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Maybe if he jumped for a ball instead of always dropping off the defender trying to anticipate a mistake, then he might do better. Keane was ok tonight at best, but he really could help himself out more.

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Originally Posted by Guidedbyvoices

Why would you leave out Keano? He cant score if he doesnt get the ball and there was no one capable of giving it to him. The usual hoof it up the pitch job. 'ANDY REID SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE' no two ways about it.

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I didn't say I would leave out Keane. I said I would leave out Doyle. He's not a world class finisher and he doesn't close down enough which is very important. In the 3 big games against the Italians and French he never looked like scoring or even dangerous in the box. I'm all for putting in shifts but putting in shifts in non threathening areas is not going to win us matches. We need goals, simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Guidedbyvoices

Why would you leave out Keano? He cant score if he doesnt get the ball and there was no one capable of giving it to him. The usual hoof it up the pitch job. 'ANDY REID SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE' no two ways about it.

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What do you think Andy would have contributed going forward? Would he have got enough time on the ball against their big two central midfielders? Would he have been as able to get back and deny space to French attackers? When we were forced to have so many players back defending, what would Andy have done exactly apart from, y'know, hoof it up the pitch?

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Originally Posted by endabob1

I don't think we're coming back from that, I felt we were well in it and 0-0 would have been happy days.

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Haven't a hope of recovering. To do that, we had to take something to Paris. France bossed the game and if they can do that at half pace here, christ knows what they'll do in front of their own fans on Wednesday. If we're not 2 down by half time on the night, it'll be a miracle.

Damage limitation from here on in lads, I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

I didn't say I would leave out Keane. I said I would leave out Doyle. He's not a world class finisher and he doesn't close down enough which is very important. In the 3 big games against the Italians and French he never looked like scoring or even dangerous in the box. I'm all for putting in shifts but putting in shifts in non threathening areas is not going to win us matches. We need goals, simple as that.

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And Best is?:D:D:D

I think we can still do it, we created 3 clear cut chances, had these fallen to Keane or Duff we would have gone away with 2 goals. France might now try and sit on the 1-0 which could invite us to attack them. The had lots of the ball and were dangerous running down the flanks but they didnt have a HUGE number of clear cut chances. Given had little to do except for their goal and KK's howler, they had shots but most were central right at him or wide.

We have to test Lloris from long range, while he is good at claiming crosses, he stands very far up the field when they have the ball and he's very slack at retreating to his line position. We need to get the likes of Duff, Keane and Whelan to shoot if they have space around 35m out - Ian Harte would have had a field day against Lloris. If we score first, any time before 70 mins, we could do it. I wonder how Trap will approach the game, he's got to be tempted to start with McGeady. I would be tempted to go 4-3-3 we need to go for the jugular.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

What do you think Andy would have contributed going forward? Would he have got enough time on the ball against their big two central midfielders? Would he have been as able to get back and deny space to French attackers? When we were forced to have so many players back defending, what would Andy have done exactly apart from, y'know, hoof it up the pitch?

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He has a footballing brain something half the others are missing. That enough for me.

Its not over yet. France definitely bossed the game in the second half particularly, and although the goal was a fluke, their performance merited a winner.
That said, we came so close a couple of times to nabbing a goal. We're still in this tie, regardless of the gulf in class between the sides. Its only 1-0. Anything can happen.

I thought Hunt actually gave a couple of sloppy passes tonight, but I think he shud be on the pitch on Wed at some stage.
Fair play to Lawrence, great game.
Kilbane nearly messed it up, but he'l surely keep his place anyway.
Best didnt do great, but if he wasnt wrongly-adjudged to have fouled Evra, he was in on goal for a chance at the end.

Anyway, I head for Paris more in hope than anything else, but there could be a twist yet.

Its not over till its over.

Maybe there would have been a case for throwing Reid on late in the game, but the fulll pace for 90 mins would have meant he would have been running on fumes after about 60 mins

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

- Ian Harte would have had a field day against Lloris.

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Bring him back. In fact bring Stan back. Anyone but Kilbane.

Class won out tonight. Results have shielded Trap til now. He set out for a nil-all draw and had no Plan B, a la Folan in Bari.

No excuse that we don't have the players either - Andy Reid a case in point.

Romania, Austria and Serbia gave the French better tests than we did.

Game over. World Cup on the telly for us again.

The team put in an admiral performance but over all France turned it up after half time and when you keep pressing like they did, something will come and they got a bit of luck with the deflection.

Best hope for Wednesday is to keep it at 1-0 for the first hour starting Hunt and Lawrence and then throw all caution to the wind bringing on Duff and McGeady for the last half hour.

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Originally Posted by Guidedbyvoices

And Best is?:D:D:D

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It's not that simple tbh.

Look at Bari. We had Doyle and Keane up front and we didn't look like scoring. I know Folan came on earlier but we only scored after Doyle came off.

Keane and Doyle are too similar. Doyle is not a target man even though he is being asked to pretty much play that role. Keane is and always will be the more lethal finisher at international level. The Keane-Doyle combination isn't delivering goals. Stick in Best as the target man and Keane will probably get more chances to score as will some of the other players.

Our forwards setup is the least effective in Europe I would say and we are heavily dependent on set pieces, midfielders and defenders to score us goals.

Tough to come out being a goal down, chances for both teams were just about even.
Anyone who thinks the French were strolling around in the low gears just have not got the foggiest about how international football is played.
We played better than I expected, the players did their best against a very good team.
Considering the opposition, I'd say it's the best performance we have managed at home since beating Holland in 2001.

Fortunately we have another game, I'd expect the French to be strong enough but who knows.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

It's not that simple tbh.

Look at Bari. We had Doyle and Keane up front and we didn't look like scoring. I know Folan came on earlier but we only scored after Doyle came off.

Keane and Doyle are too similar. Doyle is not a target man even though he is being asked to pretty much play that role. Keane is and always will be the more lethal finisher at international level. The Keane-Doyle combination isn't delivering goals. Stick in Best as the target man and Keane will probably get more chances to score as will some of the other players.

Our forwards setup is the least effective in Europe I would say and we are heavily dependent on set pieces, midfielders and defenders to score us goals.

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If we had Keane, Doyle, Stokes, Folan, Hunt, Best and Long there tonight we still would not have scored.

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Originally Posted by Alf Honn

Class won out tonight. Results have shielded Trap til now. He set out for a nil-all draw and had no Plan B, a la Folan in Bari.

No excuse that we don't have the players either - Andy Reid a case in point.

Game over. World Cup on the telly for us again.

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Having Andy Reid playing against France in Dublin last time, made little difference. And it wouldn't tonight either.

France just used the ball better all night, we just gave it away all the time. France's goal came from an aimless clearance at the corner flag. :rolleyes:

We saw after the goal, what's in store on Wednesday night. Us throwing caution to the wind, France creating more chances. On Wednesday night they'll take them.

I fancy France to win in Paris, We tried to close them down, We defended brilliantly, But they just have that extra bit of class.

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Originally Posted by Guidedbyvoices

If we had Keane, Doyle, Stokes, Folan, Hunt, Best and Long there tonight we still would not have scored.

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Our forwards are limited agreed. Folan was dangerous in Bari no question but he was injured tonight. Doyle wasn't dangerous tonight.

I don't want to get on Doyle's back, he's a good player. But look at the difference between the Drogba's, Anelka's and Torres of this world and the Irish forwards. Drogba and co are in the team for one single reason and no other reason than to score goals. Keane and Doyle just aren't scoring enough. I've gone into this before and it's a technical thing which you probably aren't interested in, but they are too similar and both of them are too small and easily pushed off the ball. Contrast that with Drogba and Torres who are able to push big defenders like Ferdinand and Vidic off the ball.

Doyle and Keane's job is not to put in a shift, it's to score goals or else knock the ball down for someone else to score goals.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Having Andy Reid playing against France in Dublin last time, made little difference. And it wouldn't tonight either.

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He's much better now and we'll never know how effective he could be until we use him. We had the oppurtonity tonight to win the game and a bit of skill and composure from someone like Reid might've gone a long way towards the result.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Tough to come out being a goal down, chances for both teams were just about even.
Anyone who thinks the French were strolling around in the low gears just have not got the foggiest about how international football is played.
We played better than I expected, the players did their best against a very good team.
Considering the opposition, I'd say it's the best performance we have managed at home since beating Holland in 2001.

Fortunately we have another game, I'd expect the French to be strong enough but who knows.

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Cop on will ya. France weren't that good. Deserved to win, but were not outstanding.

Who said they were outstanding.
I said they were a very good team

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Originally Posted by geysir

Who said they were outstanding.
I said they were a very good team

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It's what you implied by saying that was our best performance at home since Holland 2001.

Unbelievable first half,great atmosphere and the team tackled and played brilliant from the very start,but we just parked the bus in the second half and they were always going to score

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Sorry for the long post!

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Wish you really meant that! Congratulations on mentioning Andy Reid 3 times in a post about a match he wasn't involved in. He should have been though..........anyone can see our non-existent mid-field is the problem....Maybe if Doyle our Keane got a pass they might score.