The Independent group is essentially controlled by O'Brien now, although it's been suggested - by The Phoenix, so pinch of salt - that O'Brien and O'Reilly have declared a truce.
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The Independent group is essentially controlled by O'Brien now, although it's been suggested - by The Phoenix, so pinch of salt - that O'Brien and O'Reilly have declared a truce.
Cut from the same anti union (and by extension worker) cloth anyway, so the point still stands. The Indo's anti union history goes back a lot further than the pair of them anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
A friend of mine who works in a financial institution has always pointed out that however much someone in government is paid to come up with a law there's 4 or 5 people who are paid much more working on ways to get around that law for themselves/their company.
The most leaked budget ever is here, not going to be too many surprises.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...260356458.html
Quote:
The biggest item in the budget will be €1.3 billion in pay cuts for the public service, ranging from 5 per cent for those on average pay to 15 per cent for those at the most senior level in the public service. Ministers will also take a 15 per cent pay cut while the Taoiseach’s pay will be reduced by 20 per cent.
The cuts in social welfare rates will range from about 4 per cent for those claiming jobseekers’ allowance to 10 per cent in child benefit.
Cuts in disability benefit and carers’ allowances are expected to cause most political difficulty for the Government but all of the welfare cuts are expected to generate controversy.
One group who will be exempt from cuts are pensioners. Government sources have made it clear that the old-age pension will not be touched by the welfare cuts.
The pensions of retired public servants and politicians will be exempt from cuts in line with pay, although they were tied to pay increases on the way up. It means that public service pensioners on full entitlements will now have close to 70 per cent of the salaries paid in their former grades.
The capital budget will also suffer a cut of close to €1 billion although the Minister will point to declining tendering prices as an indication that the impact on planned projects will not be as severe as might be feared
This will involve an increase of about five cent in a litre of petrol, €54 in 1,000 litres of home heating oil, 48 cent on a bale of briquettes and €56 on a tonne of coal.
Income tax rates are not expected to change and there is also expected to be minimal change in tax bands or credits, although Mr Lenihan has been pointing to the fact that leaving bands and credits alone will mean that about 50 per cent of the workforce will be entirely out of the income tax net.
Quote:
The pensions of retired public servants and politicians will be exempt from cuts in line with pay, although they were tied to pay increases on the way up. It means that public service pensioners on full entitlements will now have close to 70 per cent of the salaries paid in their former grades.
think this part of it is a bit unfair , pensions went up in the good times but now wont be touched , 70% of your finishing salary is a fair wack alright , i know people will says its unfair to hit the pensioners but what goes up must come down
everything else i think is fair in the climate were in today .
70% of a salary in this day and age from the state is far too high a figure to be sustainable in the longer term.Quote:
Originally Posted by saint dog
Its a maximum of 50% of their finishing salary. The above article opines that the pension would be 70% of the equivalent new pay scale. For that to happen we're talking about only the very high earners. For someone to finish on 60k a year, their pension would be 30k per year now. For it to reach 70% the pay sclae would have to drop to 43k.Quote:
Originally Posted by saint dog
Fairly annoying how papers use the high earners as standard, even when they all agree that 15,000 of the 315,000 public servants earn over 100k
Not to mention that the state pension contributes to a public servants pension
An article by David Begg expounding the opinions of a Credit Suisse boss, in the Independent. I'm not sure people should be allowed to read it.
That is why I I think David Begg is credible and should be taken seriously. As he is not some guy who hangs on to old cliches or ideologys. He comes across as very practical and reasonable in my view.
Dude, he's channelling a bank boss. In the Indo.
It is reported in various places that excise on alcohol will be reduced in the budget. Much as I enjoy a pint, this seems like a daft move in an almost broke country with serious issues with drink.
Just been talking about this (ranting) in the office it's appalling, truly sickening, the single most damaging drug in the country and it seems to be about the only thing getting cheaper in this budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
If there was ever any doubt that vintners and developers run the country this budget will be the definitive proof.
Its an attempt to stop people shopping over the border . Most people are going for the booze. The argument is that it will bring in more money and help raise revenue.Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
If that is the case then it should only apply to off sales and not pubs (which very few people cross the border for)... can't see that being the case.
The proposed 25c cut wouldn't make any noticeable difference to the savings that can be made on off licence booze across the border from what i can see. I really can't see it as anything but a sop to the publicans.
So far my reaction is ouch!
Hitting the low an middle incomes more than expected I think, I'd expect a big reaction from the unions of the lower paid, it's not going to be pretty.
JA/B Rates:
Age 21 and below: €100 per week
Age 22-24: €150 per week
Above 25 standard rate: €196 per week
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1209/budget2010_main.html
Main Points
•Dole payments cut by €8 a week (with additional cuts for under 23s)
•Child benefit (lower and higher rate) reduced by €16 per month
•Excise duty on alcohol reduced - 12c cut on beer and cider, 14c cut on a measure of spirits, 16c cut on a bottle of wine
•No change on tobacco tax
•50c charge for every medical card prescription from April
•Carbon tax of €15 per tonne
•Hospital consultants will see their pay cut by up to 15%
•Irish domicile levy of €200,000 per year for high net worth individuals
•New 'universal social contribution', which will replace employee PRSI, the Health Levy and the Income Levy
•Public servants' pensions to be linked to average salary across career, rather than final salary
•Taoiseach's salary to be reduced by 20%
•Mortgage interest relief - Extended to 2018 for those who now find themselves in negative equity
•Flood relief - More than €70m to be given to help victims and stop future floods
•Taoiseach's salary to be cut by 20%
•National Solidarity Bond aimed at small investors to be launched
About right id sayQuote:
Originally Posted by mypost
saving about 3.5million a week on that alone
Scrappage scheme announced. Get 1500 off VRT when you trade in a 10 year old or older car for a new low emission one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Is this based on them living at home or not. I wonder if it is based on them living at home,will it just drive people out of the home, and on to rental accomodation and to claim rent allowance and get the full dole and rent allowance and it to cost more money in the long run. Or is it a straight based on age with no regard to circumstances.
rent allowance is another joke , for the life of me cant see any reason why a tax payer should pay someone elses rent ,Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Well where should someone live if they are on the dole. There is an argumennt, that all it does is drive up rent prices and goes straight the pockets of landlords. A criticism of the system is valid but a criticism of the idea that people deserve a place to live if they cannot look after themselves is the basis of a modern fair society.
Typical Ireland-put the price of a Pint down(just barely) in the budget and that gets some of the headlines and discussion time,pathetic.
Exactly, so how many pints would one have to drink to be able to get the price of a new pint? 10,15 or 20?Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
The pay cut announced yesterday.
5% up to 30%
7.5% for the next 40
10% for the next 55.
Can some one tell me if Tds pay is being cut as per public servents on similar pay?
EG lets take A Td who was on 120k this day last year.
They toke the voluntry cut of 10% reducing their pay to 108k.
Then the above clicks in, i.e
5% up to 30%
7.5% for the next 40
10% for the next 55
Meaning a reduction of another 8300. Is their new gross pay 99.7k?
Or
is the above just applied to the 120k to start with (i.e prior to the vol cut?)
This would mean the pay in Jan 2010 would be 110.5k?
Anyone, Anyone, Bueller? Anyone?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...260419652.html
Quote:
There will be many editorials written about the harshest budget in the history of the State. Suffice to say, on first reading, that the decisions taken rise up to the occasion financially. They were courageous, bold, above party politics, above sectional interest and they appear to have put the country first. Whether they are a programme for recovery remains to be seen. But, right or wrong, as some of them may be seen in coming days, at least there was an attempt to lead from the front.
Some €4 billion in public spending cuts was administered. The political waffle was kept to a minimum. There was a political consciousness that the decisions had to be fair. The high-earners were affected proportionately. The public service pay cuts were scaled. The welfare reductions will make life miserable for those in need. But public opposition may be muted because of the balanced manner in which income cuts have been made.
And they are trying to portrait it as a stimulus measure! Nama for the Developers and Bankers, now a price cut for the publicans. Party Interest trumps National Interest, again. It will make sod all difference to cross border shopping, we're still more expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Fr Damo, the headline cuts for clowen and his ministers includes the 10% cut taken previously. So Ministers are actually only taking the same cut as someone under €30K. But, it actually gets worse, as because someone under €30k pays little or no tax, they get hit for the full 5% whereas it nets off at 2.5% for the Ministers paying at top rate and full levies. How's that for fairness and sharing the pain?
Saint Dog, The State shouldn't be paying rent allowance, but they do because of the failure to build enough social housing. Sure even when FF did introduce the measure to make a certain percentage of new estates social housing, they folded to their buddies and let them buy it out rather than provide the housing. Rent Allowance obviously also a subsidy to developers as well, particularly now they can't sell and have to rent. A win win for FF.
.
you live at home until you can afford to rent or buy a house not untilQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
you get given a house for little or nothing being paid for by the tax payer
to greedy landlords
What happens if you do not get on with yoru parents. What happens if you grow up in an abusive house and you have to move out of home. I am presuming you were lucky enough to grow up in a loving home, where you could stay to be an adult. Not everybody has this in life.
you pay rent , like i had to when i moved out
then i begged borrowed and saved to buy a house , now its in negative equity
but yet people living near me pay €100 a month rent claim left right and centre and have never worked a day in their life ,so wheres the fairness in that
I welcome the fact that the budget has gone for the full 4 billion promised but elements of it are disturbing.
The price of drink thing is a joke, as is pretending that's why people are shopping in the North. It may be part of it, but housewives are not driving from Dublin to Newry just because the Bud is cheaper.
Reducing the unemployment rates for the young just looks like a not particularly coded message to graduates to emigrate. If your stamps are paid you should have the same entitlement as everyone else, simple as that.
While I can see the logic of the proposal to reduce the rates for anyone refusing a job, it probably should be more nuanced than that. Should somebody who has just lost their job as an architect be forced to work in Supermacs a week later? So while I agree with the general sentiment, the devil is in the detail and I don't trust this government not to screw it up completely.
And why reduce payments for the disabled, the blind etc but leave pensioners untouched? Because they went mental last year of course. A very dangerous message, as the Irish Times pointed out and probably will contribute to industrial unrest in the coming weeks.
I wouldn't expect an architect to work in supermacs - but at the same time if i had a choice between the dole and say 350 a week i know what i would do - F**K the pride thing - your right on the price of drink - i think this should of been cut significantly more 70/80 cents - the country wants to get rid of as many young people as possible - in fairness i can understand the logic of it - welcome back to the 1980'sQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
So someone who is 21 moves out and should pay rent on 100 euro a week.Quote:
Originally Posted by saint dog
Just for clarity- I don't think reducing the price of drink was anything other than a sop to the vintners. It should have been left alone.
The VRT reduction is ridiculous too.
As a private sector worker with no children I have been left relatively untouched, petrol & gas increase aside. While I welcome the decisions to cut the €4 billion this year I'm still very concerned by the budget.
I applaud the government for taking a tough line with the public sector and making the pay cuts as they have now lost countless tens of thousands of votes at the next election. There are still huge reforms to be made to the way the public sector is run. I believe these are still to come and their is definetly some social unrest to come over the next 2-3 years. Which in itself may not be a bad thing, I think the body politic needs a huge shake up.
Next years budget will no doubt be even tougher, not just for the public sector, for the whole country. The changes to income tax and PRSI are going to be crucial. The abolition of mortgage interest relief is also crucial. I'm not exactly sure how it will impact yet but with interest rates set to rise after the first quarter of next year, it causes me to worry.
Social Welfare cuts do seem to be wrong. The concept of social welfare being a carrot not to work doesnt sit well with me, as far as I can see we have no coherent job creation policy. I agree that it is a fairly blunt "leave" to our youth. When the economy does eventually turn, we will have lost a generation. Whether it will help the country recover it will untimately being very destructive to the nation to lose another generation.
Its good that the government are taking decisive decisions now as opposed to the 80's when succesive goverments of all parties refused to make any hard decision. Thus keeping the country in recession for longer than was needed.
I fear next years budget could be the end of us if the world economy doesnt lift us this year.
The problem is the reform will now be made impossible by the unions who will refuse to engage with the Government, the deal that was rejected at the last minute contained a huge amount of reforms, particularly in the health sector, that would have hugely benefitted the country as a whole but it was thrown out the window in a fit of panic. The "tough line" was in fact an easy way out, the ruling party have realised that they won't be re-elected anyway at this stage so they went for the short term measure, leaving the serious reform to whoever succeeds them, it was cowardly at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by centre mid
Just to give an idea of what was thrown away and will now never happen here's a summary from the ICTU news release after the talks broke down;
Quote:
· No reduction in any services as a result of the temporary unpaid leave measure
· A guarantee of “no impact on the length and structure of the school year or class contact” and an additional working hour by every teacher each week
· Explicit agreement on the redeployment of civil and public servants within and between organisations to ensure better delivery of priority services as budgets and staffing declined
· A process to deliver an extended 8-8 working day in the health services, leading to longer opening hours
· The introduction of new rosters in health - including the introduction of new nursing rosters by January 2011 – leading to more flexible services and a further reduced overtime budget
· Ongoing reductions in the number of in-patient beds and increases in day care, outpatient and diagnostic capacity, in order to provide faster access to services at lower cost
· A greater range of health services in community settings so that more patients could receive treatment at home
· Reviews of health service staffing ratios and skills mixes to help improve patient care at minimal cost
· New value-for money and waste elimination programmes
· The introduction of shared services in health, local authorities, education and the civil services – in areas like finance, procurement, human resources and payroll.
· The introduction of evidence-based performance measurement in health
· The extension of competitive and merit-based promotions at all levels throughout the public services
· Multi-disciplinary working and reporting arrangements in health
· The supervision and substitution scheme for post primary teacher to be made more flexible
· New procedures for redeploying surplus teachers
· A review of the teaching contract to remove impediments to teaching and learning
· A comprehensive review and revision of special needs assistant employment terms and conditions to identify and remove any impediments to efficient and effective support for students with special care needs
· Cooperation with the restructuring and rationalisation of the VEC sector
· Cooperation with rationalisation of state agencies in the local government sector
· Better management and standardisation of annual and sick leave arrangements
· Changes to civil service opening and closing times and attendance arrangements
· The further development of on-line and e-services.
The deal would also have included a new ‘transformation commission’ with independent leadership, charged with ensuring the implementation of the package.
Temporary savings measures – necessary because the transformation programme would not have delivered the required permanent savings in 2010 - were also on the table to ensure the necessary payroll savings in 2010. The savings would have come from an agreed progressive valuation of 12 days unpaid leave.
..But also neccesary.