Great Article By Lawrenson in the Times.

i am one of those who doesnt feel we are getting the best out of the team! the problem is that as long as Trappatoni is in charge, we are not going to find out what exactly this team are or are not capable of! If we dont qualify, will all the people here supporting him, not be wondering about the alternatives? Talking about getting the best from your players! McCarthy i would say 100% did get the best out of the players, I cannot say I feel the same way for sure about Trap! Then again, if you had Keane in that centre mid at his prime, im quite sure we could have won the group!

Eh Weh, that's a fair point.

But you agree we have almost exactly the same players we had under Kerr and Stauntan?

Kerr also had Roy Keane, Finnan, Carsley (at his peak) at his disposal.

Stauntan had Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland.

So both those managers had a lot of good players available and they couldn't achieve a play off place.

A lot of the Irish team are now in the twilight of their career, or the wrong side of 30. Duff, Kilbane, Dunne, etc.

It's also been a rebuilding period for Trap and he has achieved that remarkably well. St. Ledger, Folan, Best, Hunt, Whelan and a few others have become genuine long term options for Ireland.

For a manager in his first qualifying campaign, he's done pretty good. With international teams, the improvement is usually gradual. ie, It takes years to improve a team, because remember Trap only gets to see the players a couple times a year. Club managers get to see them day in day out.

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Originally Posted by Eh Weh

i am one of those who doesnt feel we are getting the best out of the team! the problem is that as long as Trappatoni is in charge, we are not going to find out what exactly this team are or are not capable of! If we dont qualify, will all the people here supporting him, not be wondering about the alternatives? Talking about getting the best from your players! McCarthy i would say 100% did get the best out of the players, I cannot say I feel the same way for sure about Trap! Then again, if you had Keane in that centre mid at his prime, im quite sure we could have won the group!

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McCarthy got the best out his players in Japan, without Roy Keane?

In those defeats to Russia and Switzerland?

Away to Macedonia?

Let's stop the revisionist bull****. If you want pretty football, watch West Brom. If you want results, watch Trap.

superdave, there will always be expecptions in matches, and those that you mentioned are valid and I have not forgotten them! but take a case in point, the world cup 2002 qualifying campaign, that has to be the most impressive ever qualifying campaigns of ours to date! Atleast we are slowly working our way back up the rankings and hopefully will be seeded in Pot 2 for the European Cup campaign.

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Originally Posted by SuperDave

Let's stop the revisionist bull****. If you want pretty football, watch West Brom. If you want results, watch Trap.

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Spot on about the revisionism. It's grown to monstrous proportions among certain commentators and fans.

Some people seem to be nostaligic for the Stauntan and Kerr eras. Some older people are even nostalgic for the 1970's era which they perceive as the golden age of Irish soccer, largely because they played in it.

Up until the arrival of Jack Charlton, we were the laughing stock of European football. We were the whipping boys, if anyone can remember back then.

The Eoin Hand era ended with a 4-1 thrashing by Denmark in Lanesdowne Road.

We had some of the best players in the world, and yet as an international team we ranked up there with Luxembourg, and similar countries.

With Charlton and McCarthy we became a world force. Under Kerr and Stauntan we retreated to a laughing stock.

People need to get real about the past. And also about the pool of talent we choose from. There are only about a 100 Irish professional soccer players in England. There are thousands for England to choose from.

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Originally Posted by Eh Weh

superdave, there will always be expecptions in matches, and those that you mentioned are valid and I have not forgotten them! but take a case in point, the world cup 2002 qualifying campaign, that has to be the most impressive ever qualifying campaigns of ours to date! Atleast we are slowly working our way back up the rankings and hopefully will be seeded in Pot 2 for the European Cup campaign.

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Yet that came in McCarthy's third campaign. The results in the first two were mediocre, mainly due to him needing to rebuild the team. This is exactly what Trap has done so far, bringing in a host of new players. Plus, he hasn't brought them all in at once, instead bringing in only one or two new ones every now and then, ensuring a relative fluidity in selection.

Furthermore, McCarthy had some fantastic young players at his disposal; the likes of Keane, Duff, Given and others. Trap doesn't have that kind of talent coming through. I think all of this suggests that Trap is doing a fine job, and comparisons with McCarthy should be favourable.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Spot on about the revisionism. It's grown to monstrous proportions among certain commentators and fans.

Some people seem to be nostaligic for the Stauntan and Kerr eras. Some older people are even nostalgic for the 1970's era which they perceive as the golden age of Irish soccer, largely because they played in it.

Up until the arrival of Jack Charlton, we were the laughing stock of European football. We were the whipping boys, if anyone can remember back then.

The Eoin Hand era ended with a 4-1 thrashing by Denmark in Lanesdowne Road.

We had some of the best players in the world, and yet as an international team we ranked up there with Luxembourg, and similar countries.

With Charlton and McCarthy we became a world force. Under Kerr and Stauntan we retreated to a laughing stock.

People need to get real about the past. And also about the pool of talent we choose from. There are only about a 100 Irish professional soccer players in England. There are thousands for England to choose from.

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Hand managed one good campaign. He was unlucky not to qualify.
It was a long time ago so I cannot remember everything. He had some very good players a lot of which really produced the goods for Jack albeit with a more direct style of football.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Some older people are even nostalgic for the 1970's era which they perceive as the golden age of Irish soccer

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At least we had a decent crest back then :)

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Hand managed one good campaign. He was unlucky not to qualify.
It was a long time ago so I cannot remember everything. He had some very good players a lot of which really produced the goods for Jack albeit with a more direct style of football.

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The bit I remember is the Danes giving us a thumping in front of a handful of supporters in Landsdowne Rd. 15,000 or thereabouts was the attendance.

Compare that with the 70-80,000 we now can get. Even in Charlton's time, we could get a full house for an Irish game. Ah but Irish soccer started to go into decline with the arrival of Charlton according to some.

The football purists would rather see us lose badly as in the 1970's and 80's but play nice football, than win well by another method.

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Originally Posted by Eh Weh

i am one of those who doesnt feel we are getting the best out of the team! the problem is that as long as Trappatoni is in charge, we are not going to find out what exactly this team are or are not capable of! If we dont qualify, will all the people here supporting him, not be wondering about the alternatives? Talking about getting the best from your players! McCarthy i would say 100% did get the best out of the players, I cannot say I feel the same way for sure about Trap! Then again, if you had Keane in that centre mid at his prime, im quite sure we could have won the group!

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People say the same about the Charlton and McCarthy eras, that we didnt achieve as much as we could etc. I disagree in the main. But particularly now. This team was heading to the international abyss towards the end of the last campaign,shot of confidence and losing touch with the general public. We were down in the 3rd seeds and heading further down. Now we have a team, with average players but with a clear sense of purpose that has been evident since the Norway friendly. You might not like how we play but its effective and works and seems to be able to adapt to whatever circumstances are placed in front of us. The fact that Trap and co have another few years in charge is wonderful imo, even if we dont make the WC. There is a general buzz about the Irish team again that has been there since 2002.