1) He had a career before CelticQuote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
2) If you look a recent squads, getting your game regularly in the first team doesn't seem anywhere near a prerequisite
Printable View
1) He had a career before CelticQuote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
2) If you look a recent squads, getting your game regularly in the first team doesn't seem anywhere near a prerequisite
Aye, in part-time leagues and the English Division 4. Most NI regulars play a couple of divisions higher than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Fair point- I meant to say 'team' rather than 'squad' above.Quote:
2) If you look a recent squads, getting your game regularly in the first team doesn't seem anywhere near a prerequisite
NI first team during recent qualifiers
G Taylor (Birmingham- Prem reserve- no other keepers playing regularly in top English divisions or equivalent)
D McAuley (Ipswich- C'ship regular)
D Hughes (Fulham- Prem regular)
D Evans (ManU-Prem regular)
D McCartney (Sunderland-Prem regular)
M Baird (Fulham- Prem regular)
M Clingan (Coventry- C'ship regular)
M Davis (Rangers- SPL regular)
M Johnson (Birmingham- Prem reserve)
M McCann (Scunthorpe- C'ship regular)
F Healy (Sunderland youth team?- still living off 35 international goals)
Also played at least three games: D Craigan (Motherwell- SPL regular), M Brunt (West Brom- C'ship regular), M Gillespie (Sheff Utd- C'ship regular), F Paterson (Burnley-C'ship regular), F Lafferty (Rangers- SPL regular), F Feeney (Dundee United- SPL regular)
When did Paddy play in the IL?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Ha ha. Not all players in the League of Ireland are full-time, are they? So it's a part-time league. I'm not criticising that, it's just not a high enough standard to displace players from the English Champ and Scottish Prem who have been McCourt's rivals for a place.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtndvn
If more players where full time than part time when Paddy was here, wouldn't that make it a full time league?If there are 12 clubs, and only 2 are "part time", how is the league pt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
No, it becomes a full-time league when all the players (or at least all the clubs) are full time. In recent years, the English Conference has tried to achieve and maintain this, to distinguish itself from the regional leagues below. The obvious difference between players at the different levels is usually fitness.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtndvn
As I said, I'm not criticising part-time football, nor even McCourt particularly. If he plays regularly for Celtic this term, he's likely to get into the NI team. If he stays in the stiffs, he won't.
He doesn't get a chance for NI because Nigel Worthington is a useless idiot.
No other reason at all, no matter what certain idividuals try to imply.
I don't understand why Worthington won't show more faith, McGinn came on and the games he has played he has been fantastic. No reason why McCourt can't do the same considering he's supposedly the better of the two.
McCourt could probably do with playing in a better league than the SPL though.
McGinn is ahead of McCourt in the Parkhead pecking order, is he not?
Somebody brought the point up earlier - McCourt is a unique type of player and he needs to be around players who compliment his style. McGinn, to my mind, is a more direct player and has more to offer the current NI (and Celtic) team.
Nigel Worthington is an idiot!!!!!!!!! again he over looks McCourt in the N Ireland squad, I look at some of the players in that squad and wonder what he sees in some of the players hes picked. No wonder Northern Ireland has lost players to the Republic with his mindless attitude. Milk Cup 2 yrs ago James McLean played great at the Milk Cup, on that team were Corey Evans Wipeee Cathgart and Josh Mcguines they have all represented Nireland now because McLean is playing in LOI he wont have a look at it him. Is it getting to the stage that he will only call protestant players into his team or at least have a look. Remember he took a few Irish league players away in the summer did he look at the LOI no enough said
Paddy doesn't have enough graft to play for NI according to Worthington.
Another thing why is Mannus not in the NI squad for, he picks Blaney as 3rd choice keeper, obviously thinks Irish League is better than LOI or is it that he wants to keep the directors of the Blues happy with picking one of their players. The guy just doesnt have a clue about anything in management or coaching
I'd imagine Mannus is in the cold for not going on the Summer tour when picked this year
McCourt's a Catholic from Derry playing for Glasgow Celtic.
Is this the reason he's not being given a fair crack of the whip?
There is a guy in the squad aged 17 who has never even played a senior game of professional football FFS.
There are other Catholics from Derry playing for Glasgow Celtic who regularly make the squad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Who exactly? McGinn is from Tyrone incase you were thinking he's from Derry
McGinn isn't from Derry and hasn't been near the team in the games I've seen this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Apart from that you're right.
I probably should have fact-checked that. But Celtic did buy him "from Derry" so I was kind of right :(
Its probably that he just doesnt rate McCourt as a player he will ever have use for, similar to Trapattoni and Andy Reid.Quote:
Originally Posted by harry crumb
The jury is very much out on McCourt at Celtic by the way, his goals, although brilliant, have been against minnows, he is rarely involved in the bigger games.
Came on as a sub today for Celtic. Played barely half an hour and was walking around for too much of it. Not enough urgency and the fecker wouldn't run to warm himself up.
True, though he looked very good with the ball at his feet and moved the ball forward quite well - which was needed when they brought him on. He could have had a huge impact on the game if were interested in occasionally running off the ball rather than walking about. He was usally behind the attackers and midfielders who were breaking forward and would get the ball, beat a player and pass it forward. This is fine as long as you don't lose the ball as with so many players pushing on the counter attack would be set up. He did lose the ball twice today and respond by grabbing the shirt of his opponent in attempt to stop an attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
There was one interesting incident when a team mate misplaced a pass to him. Paddy appeared to have a bit of a moan before sauntering to the ball before it went out of play.
I do reckon he has the ability to be a factor in the bigger games. I am a bit surprised that he's not in the NI squad. I'd have him on the bench for most games myself but I'm not the manager :)
It is a matter of opinion whether McCourt merits a place on footballing grounds in the NI squad or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flexy
However, your clear assertion that NW is ignoring McCourt due to anti-Catholic prejudice, or is anti-LOI, is disgraceful, false, ignorant and almost certainly actionable.
In fact, it's so much so that it's difficult to know where to start, such is the amount of bile, misinformation and downright lies you've crammed into your post.
You refer to NW losing players to the ROI. Maybe so, but it's hardly down to his personal approach; on the contrary, it was he who persuaded Tony Kane and Michael O'Connor to return to NI (both Catholics, btw). Moreover, he has included Kane in his senior squad and awarded O'Connor all his 9 NI caps. Further, NW's latest young protege is Jonny Gorman, whom he persuaded to switch to NI from the ROI! (And seeing as Gorman qualified for the ROI via ancestry, his background may well be Catholic/Nationalist, not that anyone cares)
Now let's take James McClean (or ""McLean" as you insist on calling him) specifically. McClean has never played outside Derry City, yet NI picked him for their U-21's, when players with English/Scottish clubs etc were overlooked. Indeed, he was selected by Steve Beaglehole, appointed to the NI set-up by Nigel Worthington, who relies very heavily on his judgement.
You complain that fellow Milk Cup players have been capped before him. Let's make the comparison. Corry (not "Corey") Evans is Captain of MU Reserves and whilst that does not equate to their "second" team, it denotes a hell of a sight more potential than McClean. Moreover, he has been given a 1st team Squad Number, went on their pre-season tour to the USA (and played) and has been on the bench a couple of times in the EPL. Moreover, he can play several positions in defence or midfield. He is also a year younger than McClean.
As for Craig Cathcart, he has played a season and a half on loan in the Championship (Plymouth and Watford), before signing this season for Blackpool in the EPL, where he has played all their games to date. Despite that, he has yet to make his International debut, so you haven't even got that right.
And as for Josh Magennis (not "McGuines"), he has just signed for Aberdeen, where he has started the season in their 1st team. This follows on from having played a handful of games for Cardiff whilst still a teenager. He, too, is a year younger than McClean. As for his two NI caps, both of these were gained on a US Tour where, for contractual reasons, they were billed as "A" Internationals. NW, however, described it as a "development tour". Moreover, although I care not a jot otherwise, I suspect Magennis may actually be Catholic, considering his middle name is Brendan and I've seen him cross himself after scoring (for NI, btw). These are hardly conclusive, but I've never known any Prod called Brendan, nor any to cross himself.
Next up is your claim that because McClean is playing LOI, NW won't look at him. How do you square that with the fact of NW giving Niall McGinn his international debut whilst still with, ahem, Derry City? Or the fact that he wanted Alan Mannus (LOI) to join the US Tour in preference to Alan Blayney (IL), before Mannus turned him down? The simple fact is, there are only a handful of LOI players who qualify for NI, as opposed to dozens/hundreds in the IL. Also, the USA Tour to which you refer was slap bang in the middle of the LOI season, whereas it was end-of-season for IL players. Moreover, he wouldn't even have taken any of the IL players he did (bar one or two?), had he not suffered well over a dozen withdrawals from players in England/Scotland.
As for your disgraceful slur that NW is only interested in "Protestant" players, this is utter garbage - and offensive garbage at that. For just looking at the IL players NW has called up and capped alone, these have included nearly as many RC's as Prods eg Marty Donnelly, Rory Patterson and Michael Gault.
Finally, it was NW who took another look at Paddy McCourt, six years after his debut, during which time he was discarded by McIlroy and ignored by Sanchez (a Catholic former LOI manager btw). Of course, as I have alluded above, it is open to question whether Paddy should be in the present NI squad. But I would point out that the three players who have kept him out of the side in his preferred position were first Keith Gillespie and Damien Johnson (a Catholic, btw), then Niall McGinn of Derry City and Glasgow Celtic, a former GAA=playing Catholic from Donaghmore.
Of course ignorance of the facts is one thing, but for you to "fill in the gaps" with malicious insinuations and accusations of your own imagination, only betrays who the real bigot is. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, but I don't for one moment believe that that that will even register with you.
Talk about making a mountain of a molehill.
The thing that really depresses me is that people would even know what religion their players were.
(Not a swipe at EG by the way, just a general comment. NI is what it is.)
.......meanwhile back at the ranch, have we reached the conclusion that Worthington simply doesn't rate McCourt?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
If so, I suppose its better to have an arse elbow disconnect as regards his football knowledge than be a bigot (which only Flexy has alleged and which I certainly don't subscribe to).
There's a bigger point out there which is why players like McCourt are no longer prized in the game, generally in favour of some honest grafter. Sometime soon someone is going to need to remember that football has entertainment at its heart and that a team of 11 identikit footballers isn't the ultimate aim of a manager.
So not even you can defend Flexy's bigoted rant, therefore you try to minimise its importance...Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
You're worse than he is.
http://fourfourtwo.com/blogs/serieaa...on-course.aspxQuote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ario-balotelli
As can be seen from above, Italian football is currently grappling with a problem of racism.
How would you like it if I came on this site and posted eg a clear accusation that Trappatoni and Tardelli etc were racist, on the basis that they hadn't picked Clinton Morrison, "supported" by a garbled mix of ignorance, distortions and downright lies?
For to make such a claim would be no more outrageous than to claim that Nigel Worthington must be sectarian etc because he declines to pick Paddy McCourt or James McClean, when anyone who knows anything about the game in NI would know that NW doesn't have a sectarian bone in his body..
Of course I understand that maybe you are not so outraged as I am that this sort of bile doesn't get Flexy banned etc - after all, it's not your team which he libelled.
But you must know that Sectarianism has long been the scourge of Ireland, and by extension, Irish football, most especially in NI.
Moreover, the recent poaching controversy etc risks exacerbating that scourge, at a time when many, many people in NI are working hard to try to eradicate it.
Therefore when I find my team/manager libelled like that by so loathesome a poster as Flexy, I will challenge it at every turn.
Otherwise other ignorant/prejudiced/gullible/feeble-minded readers may accord Flexy a degree of credibility which he most certainly does not deserve, thereby leading to the general impression that "nothing has changed at the IFA etc", when it most certainly has.
Which in turn risks leading to the situation whereby the FAI is seen as the Taig Association in Ireland, with the IFA being the Prod one.
And if you or other feel that that is some sort of overreaction, then tough titty - if you are not going to challenge overt bigots like Flexy, then you are going to have to put up with me fighting back against them.
Imo you're way behind the times with that question - though perhaps not in the way you intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I remember listeneing to a game on the radio some years back where the commentator observed that "For such a talented footballer, Player X certainly works hard", only to be corrected by the former footballer beside him: "He's such a talented footballer because he works so hard."
Such is the level of personal fitness in the game presently, plus the tactical sophistication (amongst the top teams, at least), that it doesn't matter how skillful a player, even team, is: if you lose the ball, it could take you ten minutes of chasing after it again, only getting it back when the other team has scored.
Therefore it is no longer a choice between being either a gifted ball player or a hardworking grafter; if you are not prepared to be both, then you aren't going to be either. (For an example of how a wonderfully entertaining player can also work his socks off, you only need look at the likes of Lionel Messi - often considered the "best" player in the world)
Which is only what Strachan, Mowbray and Lennon have concluded about McCourt for Celtic* and McIlroy, Sanchez and Worthington have concluded for NI**. Or maybe they're all wrong, too?
* - Or does anyone think that Celtic are so coming down with skilful ball players that they don't otherwise need McCourt?
** - Ditto NI
On the basis thatQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
1) I'm not a mod
2) I clearly stated my disagreement with the allegation in question
3) The epic levels of guff you've subjected this site to on matters various (subjective assessment I know) rendering me somewhat immune to oververbose hyperbole
I'll focus on the second bit of your post
I think you've reinforced my point. To paraphrase Forrest Gump, "football is is what football does". By stating that you must have 10 workers to be successful in a modern football team because successful modern football teams have 10 workers.......... you see where I'm going here?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Its not a proving anything, its simply a self-reinforcing prophecy.
McCourt probably doesn't get picked because Northern Ireland aren't good enough at international level to have any passengers on the field regardless of how fancy they are??
Have you seen Sleeping Brunty play recently?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
I'd be delighted if McCourt challenged to play regularly. Unfortunately, throughout his career- whether at Rochdale, in the LoI or now Celtic reserves- he hasn't.
I know very little about Northern Ireland other than that they wouldn't be great tbh!!
I was just wondering was that the most obvious reason. :)
There's plenty of room in any team for lazy players if the positives of their inclusion outweigh the drawbacks. Inzaghi is probably the laziest player I've ever seen on a football pitch, but he was so good at what he did that he played for club and country.
McCourt is talented, but maybe Worthington has decided that what the side benefits in skill from his inclusion doesn't make up for what they lose in graft.
And like LTID, I don't really know enough about the team to say this must be the case, just speculating on reasons.
For somebody that cares "not a jot", you seem to know the religion of a lot of players.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Anyway, I don't think Mcourt is going to make much differace to a rubbish side like Northern Ireland
..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
Here's Northern Ireland's admittedly modest record over the last two international tournaments. Look familiar?Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
P22-W10-D5-L7-Pts 35
Looks like Limericks record!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
I genuinely wasn't having a dig at the North, I wouldn't cross the road to watch the Republic.
Indeed. No-one doubts McCourt has skill, but he just hasn't offered enough in club football at the higher levels. Of the players he might replace, Brunt's bone idle but plays regularly in the English Prem, McCann's a reliable grafter and even Healy is still just about able to live off his goals in Euro 2008.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
I don't disagree with you, but you're aware of the 'Report' button on each post?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
You actually stated that I was a bigot on the thread entitled, Northern Ireland, in May 2009. Perhaps I should have called for you be banned, seeing as I took great offence. However, I am able to fight my own battles and don't need to go telling tales to moderators etc. If you don't like what people post, then p*ss off and don't post here.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I think your call for an EG ban might have failed Den, not least because you said on that thread "However its what I perceive to be the bigotry of the vast majority of NI fans that causes my disike..." (which, needless to say, you failed to back up with any evidence whatever).Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
If you think NI's team is rubbish, fine, but start smearing all the fans and you need to do a bit better.
Quite simply, if someone posted a similarly bigoted rant about Trapatoni, there would be outrage (and understandably so). Instead it was about Worthington, so I chose to express my outrage; yours just happened to be the first post following the original (and also had a secondary point), which was why I responded to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
In the old days, a player could get away with being lazy and unfit if he was also particularly skillful. Since then, players are overwhelmingly fitter, stronger and harder working.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
My point was that that does not somehow make them any less skillful or attractive to watch etc.
In other words, I'd rather watch a skillful player working hard for 90 minutes than a skillful player working hard for 20 minutes, as do managers.
And just as a player will get the heave-ho if he doesn't work hard enough, so will he if he isn't skillful* enough, either.
* - There are other skills besides dribbling, such as tackling or heading etc.