He was asked about Miller and he said he included him because he knows the system. I know the system as well. Can I get a game?
In all honesty I think it's because he (Trap) doesn't know the other alternatives like McCann or Fahey.Strange one
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He was asked about Miller and he said he included him because he knows the system. I know the system as well. Can I get a game?
In all honesty I think it's because he (Trap) doesn't know the other alternatives like McCann or Fahey.Strange one
Farce!
It's a plot between John Delaney and the Dublin refs.
I know Owls Fan it was a glib remark but to be fair. Jack Charlton picked players who knew the sytem first. Trap is of the view that IReland has limited players technically so he has devised a system that he thinks will work. He wants players who can fit that system and who will work hard. He believes it will not work if he chops and changes based on form etc. OF course this rule is not written in stone and there will be certain contradictions to this like St. Ledger coming in against Bulgaria etc. BUt to be fair, football management is not an exact science but Trap has done pretty well in his career so far and I do not think he wants to change the squad too much when he only has 3 days to work with them. Its an outlook that worked for Greece in Euro 2004. We are not Spain 2008
to an extent you are right about Charlton, Neil but he always qualified his selections by a) rarely picking below premiership level, and
b) picking players who were getting first team football
I hate the look of Trappatoni's Irish squad but its the lack of experimentation in the friendlies that really gets me.
I think this is a very very good quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I just--I dunno. I just don't like this team as far as thinking they are getting better. I like Trap as a person, no disputing his smart and funny sayings and experience and this but....I just dont think he is getting the most out of the team as possible.
People on here seem to be very confident that Ireland will prevail in the 2 game playoff after finishing second......I am not so sure.
Has the team gotten better since Trap has been here? May be a good topic in and of itself Stu.........
Seriously??:eek: Did you not see the state we were in under the last manager?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
Agree but you are saying just being competitive is OK?
I guess what I should have said, is, why the F are so many people content with draws all the time? Because a draw with Cyprus is not going to be good. Now, 8,000 people on here will give me the stats on a draw with Cyprus but I dont care.
I am more worried about beating Cyprus now than the day after Trap took over. And it shouldnt be that way.
For the slower readers: The day after Trap took over I was like, "Well Damn! At least we will never have to worry about Cyprus again?!!" Or why hire him?"
And Now I am MORE WORRIED.
Although I think Trap is doing a good job, and I am happy to have him as our manager; I'm still baffled as to why players like McCann, Fahey, Ward, O’Dea and Garvan are continuously ignored for the senior panel, while the likes of Miller is still there. I know McCann has a bust up with Givens, perhaps that the reason why he is blackballed.
His squad selections seem quite lazy if im honest. The exact same squad as the Australia match. Players who are performing well will soon get disheartened if they see players who are not geting games, or worse still have no club, getting in ahead of them. Then again Trap may be trying to create a good atmosphere in the camp and improve team bonding so therefors likes to pick the same squads
One mans lazy is another mans continuity although the Lazy IRA would have been a laughable terrorist organisation. Crosby just cause you feel something before and feel another way now, is not proof that we are getting worse. That is just your feelings. We are better than we were under Staunton, no doubt about that. We have had one result that was slightly not great and that was the draw at home to Bulgaria, but we have drawn at home to 2nd seed teams loads of tims before, under Charlton, Kerr and McCarthy. We a very good postion to finish second and possibly to finish first if results really go our way. We could not have asked for much more this time last year in my view. We have only ever topped a group once before and that was for the Qualifiers for Euro88. No with a squad that is a good bit worse that Charltons squads and some of Mc Carthys, we are in a great postion to finish 2nd.
We're always going to be trashed in friendly matches if the players know there is no pressure on their places and the manager will always pick the same squad. I suspect Trap, Tardelli and Brady genuinely dont know what players are available and Trap just tries to blindly justify selection when questioned.
I totally disagree with that. I think Trap knows full well who is avaialable and had made a judgement on quality, continuity, hard work, system and many other aspects. He will live and die by his results like any manager. At the moment his results are good if not spectacular but pretty good. Also George Burley came into teh Scotland job claming he was going to open them up with more attacking football, after the defensive Smith and McLeish eras, which got Scotland punchin above their weight and very close to qualifying. What happened, they are a disaster and as open as a 24 four brothel. They have lost their team spirit and are chopping and changin the squad based on form etc and its getting them no where.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiffRaff
Great friendly results mean nothing, 4 0 away in Denamrk and 3 0 home v Sweeden under Staunton were not transformed into the qualifiers, tbh as long as our trashings are kept to friendlies I don't cae....
Roll on Cyprus and 3 points
I would have been very vocal on that a couple of months ago, but then St Ledger and Best where given chances and I thought it was changing. Still don't think he's exhausting enough avenues.Quote:
Originally Posted by carloz
However I'm starting to think now that even if a player is overlooked for a period, is it going to effect his effort when or if he eventually is called in?? I don't think so. Playing for your country? Playing even in spite of Trapp? You're still gonna bust a gut...
How about "B-; Could do better" for Trapp... There's no doubt what he's brought to the team, in terms of tactics and performance. But in fairness I still don't think he's exhausting enough avenues to ensure we've the strongest squad. I think continuity should extend as far a 80-90 percent of a given squad with the rest being dictated on form. I also think he used the Aus Friendly the way it should have been, however this squad should have inlcuded a couple of new faces for the SA game after Cyprus. Even if they don't make the pitch. We are severely lacking in some areas and not enough is being done to insulate ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
yeah, but you can't just magic up a left back and a genuine quality CM just to complete the picture. Steven Reid is a free gift that can be added to the squad, Finnan too, but for all the complaints about Murphy, Fahey, McCann etc. they're all marginal decisions that aren't going to be decisive.
It's not Trapp's fault that we haven't got a proper left back for the first time since independence and S. Reid and Finnan are injured and that Stephen Ireland, who is increasingly looking like a class act, is a deluded knob end.
Best post in hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Good point. If Trapp & co were so unaware of the fringe players recent caps like Folan, Best, Nolan, St. Ledger, Westwood, Lawrence and others wouldn't have had a look in.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
At the margins I'll have a different view to the management (O'Dea, Garvan, A. Reid - more than a marginal decision in my view- Fahey, McCann, Delaney...) but the broad picture is the same. We've got some very good players, some good enough and some makeweights. That's what we have.
Kind of reminds me of all the energy on English radio before their WC squad was announced, about 95% of the debate spent on who should be the 23rd member of the squad.
Before our next game, it is infinitely more important that whatever afflicted the starting 11 performance against Australia be dealt with. There is no more room for such a performance against Cyprus.
I'm usually a vocal critic of our midfield but I honestly thought the biggest probalems affecting the performance in Thomond were Doyle's lack of match fitness and the rustiness / communication between the two CBs.
I thought the biggest problem was the lack of communication between the two full backs and the rest of the defence.
Over and over this scenario was repeated:
- Given in possession
- Full backs push up
- Given passes to centre half
- Centre half passes to other centre half
- Cahill pushes forward, blocking a pass to either centre midfield player
- Full backs too far forward for pass from centre half
- Centre half passes to other centre half
- Centre half passes to Given
- Given launches long ball in general direction of strikers
- Australian centre half (who is between 6 and 10 inches taller than striker) wins ball in the air
- Possession lost
Just telling Kilbane or O'Shea to hang back and give Dunne and St Ledger an out ball would have killed this sequence off completely. Kilbane in particular should have stayed back, as he could have released McGeady, who was giving the opposing full back kittens every time he got in possession.
As Miller is still without a club, perhaps Trap is trying to do him a favour by keeping him in the squad in the hopes a club come in for him. I honestly don't think he has a chance of getting a game against Cyprus.
McCann, Fahey and Ward are all making names for themselves in the Premier this season and must be giving Trap food for thought but other than Miller, who would you leave out of the squad in place of some of these options?
Now there is surely the problem. Every time Ireland got the ball to the left, McGeady was too preoccupied in dispensing cuddly gifts to the Aussie right full. How carrying these kittens while waiting for possession must have distracted him: kittens are very distracting at the best of times, never mind when you are trying to hold them, and presumably half the stand beside you going "Aaahh!" It is a wonder he ever got the ball in the first place. And why he was waiting to give them to the Australian full back until he got possession beggars belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Fair play to Trap though - it might be a wild tactical experiment, and one I woudn't agree with, but the time to try those is in the friendlies alright. Hopefully now I can be certain that there is no chance he'll just send over a crate of kittens to the sideline by Duff or McGeady if it's 0-0 in Nicosia with 20 minutes left. I mean to say, that kind of thing might have some effect on the likes of your teams from civilised countries, but sure the Cypriots have that latin temperament, and presumably eat them or f*ck them or something, and wouldn't waste five minutes on them. You'd want to watch them Cypriots, cat hating foreign b@st@rds.
Obviously.... But is it not true to say that part of his job is to make sure we the best LB from an average bunch in this case?? Is left full our weakest position? I think it is for definate. Is Kilbane the best LB we have availible to us. Maybe? But based on what? Form? Experimentation? Lack of options? What options have been looked at? We have an aging converted Midfielder whose form isn't good. Is that still better than a fullback switching flanks (Kelly's played there for Spurs and Brum in the premiership), or a young inexperienced left full in the top flight (Ward) or a Championship level specialist LB (Delaney, Paintor etc) and so on...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I think a problem has been identified and not much is being done to correct it. I think your right about the Andrews, Fahy, McCann Whelen, Reid decision etc being marginal. I think the left full thing could be decisive though.
Well, he did try Delaney twice and Nolan has played twice, once as sub I think. Delaney imperessed me in both his games and I thought he looked good for Ipswich away to Coventry. Delaney is still under consideration judging by his standby status for the Australia game. Nolan looked a bit ropey against Nigeria, but it was his debut. Trap must have made the value judgmenmt that it's KK, then Nolan, then Delaney, with maybe JOS being an option if we have cover at RB.
Kelly failed to impress at right back, let alone trying him at left back! I hope Kelly can step up though as we need options at RB too. I think Kelly played LB at home to Czech Rep (1-1) and did quite well.
Painter is only a sub at Swansea. He probably hasn't been looked at but I think it's fair to say that Delaney & Nolan rank higher.
I can't remember who played LB at Dalymount in the B game. Did Ward get a call up for that? I have only seen him a few times on telly and each time he's done something that'd concern me, like the abovementioned near-penalty concession.
Just for clarity Doc, I'm coming a cross as a bit of a pro-Trapp zealot but I actually share your concerns about the lack of experimentation but the recent capping of several new players has given me cause to believe that he's not as set in his ways as many think.I actually have great faith in Trapp's judgment but it's his Irish colleagues that I have doubts about. In Givens' case, grave doubts.
Ward and Foley started that game as far as I remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Yeah, that was Ward. I was sitting right behind him in the first half. He didn't play badly, and looked comfortable in possession. However, Hoolahan in front of him didn't show enough for the ball IMO, and lost possession too easily when he did take a pass. O'Dea beside Ward was probably the worst player on the night (Bruce as captain outshone him in defence, make of that what you will). Andrews was playing on the left of central midfield, and came back to give Ward an out ball on a few occasions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
To summarise, he didn't play badly, but the players around him made it look like he did. I'd like to have seen him get another chance.
If Finnan remained injured - I'd liked to have seen Delap included in previous friendly squads and deployed at Right Full. He has played there before at club level. I think it would be a short term but effective initiative.
Making use of O'Shea's experience at playing either side - I'd play him at left full.
Many would contend that Delap would be a viable option within midfield - but I think he would provide a solid and assured presence at right full which could have the affect of shoring up our back 4, along with O'Shea on the other side.
There is the obvious additional benefit of the long throw - but this should not cloud the fact that Delap has footballing ability and the throw-in is an added benefit.
Unfortunately, the time-frame may now have passed for this to be a realistic option.
Yeah!! It's defo not as bad as it was a few months ago. I'd actually forgotten about Nolan too... The names like Paintor were just bantered about. I wasn't advocating a particular player. I just feel we're going to get hurt through Kilbane at left full and think the SA friendly is now a missed oppertunity to check another option..Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
KK looks to be in poor enough shape.
What other options are there that have not been tried out? Nolan is in the squad with Delaney thereabouts. Nolan has been given a run out in the last 2 friendlies.
Delap? offers a solid versatility, apart from his throw ins, which would be useful as cover for a lot of possible eventualities.
Fair point. I'd actually forgotten about Nolan earlier when I started my rant. But I do feel we're compressing this into a couple of recent friendlies, when I think it's fair to say that left full has been a problem position, if not the, since day one.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Nolan was O.K. Did he do enough to cement his place?? Is it that Trapp believes he's definately the second best left full we have?? I don't even think it's that.
I think it's that he's being too rigid in his windows of oppertunity. If you miss the boat it's "Tough...Wait til next summer or B match. I've plans for the other friendlies and I don't tinker with competitive squads". I mean what harm calling an extra 1 or 2 players in any squad if only to get a look in training, if not a game.
I'm not gunning for Trapps head or anything. I wouldn't swap him for any other manager. Just an opinion..
KK will live a bit longer, I seriously hope he gets back to his old self.
Nolan did enough to be in kept in the squad. I didn't scrutinise his performance closely but I thought he was defensivly more sound than KK and got up the wing to get involved. He looked confident. I guess trap appreciates that in a player, like Bruce perhaps
As regards midfield, Andy Reid's exclusion may have been done for the greater good but by all accounts he is no O'leary. I think he will get a recall once he starts being played by Sunderland. Possibly a few injuries will clear his path.
Kilbane needs to be phased out. He'd be a useful man to have around the squad but his defensive frailties have been exposed this campaign and I hope the Trap considers playing O'Shea at LB over in Cyprus.
The thinking behind the Trap's decision to keep including Miller is probably more to knowing the player himself after seeing him up close at numerous training camps. Consequently he knows what Miller is and isn't capable of. Bringing Fahey and McCann in now for the three crunch games is probably a risk too far for the Trap at this late stage of the campaign. The Trap doesn't want any unknowns going into the Cyprus game. He has enough to worry about after our showing in the Austalia game!
I think the other option will be Nolan in the South Africa friendly.Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_peepee
So far in a just over a year Trap has introduced
Whelan
Andrews
Nolan
Best
St Ledger
to the squad and had B international with a lot of the players many have called for. The only ones not to get a chance are Mc Cann, Morrison and Carsle
Traps 28 man squad in May last year,included seven previously uncapped players - O'Dea, Scannell, Delaney, Foley, Garvan, Hoolahan and Whelan
New caps added to the squad along the way after the first 2 friendlies,
Andrews, Nolan, St Ledger, Lawrence, Folan and Best.
Westwood and Foley too.
I mentioned Foley
I thought you were saying new caps.
So basically that puts and end to the notion that he does not introduce new players. Our best youth coach of all time Brian Kerr only capped a couple of new players when he got the job.
I can see how you got there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I am only trying to supplement what yourself and Neil have written
The jist is that he brought in a minibus load to check out with his first squad,
some stayed some not.
Then during the campaign he brought in another 6 new players to the squad who were capped.
As Neil and yourself have said, he has tried almost everybody who is available except McCann and a few others.