St. George's Flags at LOI Grounds

Not lately. Have I missed any riots, out of interest?

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

Not lately. Have I missed any riots, out of interest?

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Why bother replying to a question that you obviously don't know anything about?

In response to the george's cross flag being removed in croker , it may be the fact that it may have been hanging over an advertising hording and if so, many flags have been removed because of this no matter what the flag was.
As for them in League grounds then it should be welcomed as at least the flag owners are showing an interest in our league matches.

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Originally Posted by cheech

All depends on the relevance of the situation.

Harps played Ipswich a few weeks ago and there was St George's and Union flags there. No one had a problem.

If Harps had of been playing Derry and either of these flags were taken out for example, what do people think would happen?

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Depends who took them out. If it was Harps fans - probably laughter. If City fans - probably confusion. Though at least it's red and white :)

A few scrotes at our away game versus Gretna stood over next to the City fans waving the Union flag and thinking we'd get really annoyed. City fans just laughed at them and then sang 'cheerio' when the stewards through them out. So not the mayhem you seem to be suggesting might happen.

Some people have too much time on their hands to worry about flags.

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Originally Posted by cheech

Were you ever at a Harps Derry match?

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I've been to plenty.

Why - what's supposed to happen ? *

*except from it being the biggest derby in the league :)

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Originally Posted by celticV3

I view it as representing colonialism and imperialism, something that is relative to this Island and can explain why people may be offended at the sight of the union flag. People are more than entitled to display their national flag but the union flag is not a flag of any nation and what it does represent can be offensive.

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200,000 Irishmen fought under the Unon Jack in the First World War (as opposed to less than three thousand who fought under the tricolour in the 1916 rebellion). They obviously didn’t find it offensive. Daniel O’Connell, along with Parnell, the great nationalist leader of 19th century Ireland, had no objection to the Union Jack. (Many of his political meetings ended with a toast to the Queen). Certainly, militant republicans in the 19th century and early 20th century Ireland would have objected to the Union Jack, but they would have not have been anything like a majority of the population. The mood of the country (according to historian Tom Garvin) was that a quarter of the country was actively nationalist, a quarter actively unionist, and the remaining half mildly nationalist - eg. Home Rulers. The popular demonisation of the Union Jack is largely a post-independence invention of Irish nationalists.
I suggest you read Garvin’s ‘Nationalist Revolutionaries in Ireland’, or indeed any of his other books on Irish nationalism. Or indeed any books on Irish history, as you clearly buy into the old myths and prejudices.

Didn't people die so that the St George/Union Jack wouldn't be seen in Ireland anymore?

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Originally Posted by MeathDrog

Didn't people die so that the St George/Union Jack wouldn't be seen in Ireland anymore?

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No! Arguably people died to eject such flags and their 'owners', and subsequently as a mature, balanced and sensible independent nation welcome them back with respect as/when we wish on appropriate occasions eg sporting events, festivals etc just as we do when we travel to uk for say Glastonbury, cheltenham and so on

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Originally Posted by meathdrog

didn't people die so that the st george/union jack wouldn't be seen in ireland anymore?

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no .

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Originally Posted by Umberside

There's no similarity between a tricolour at an EPL game and a Union Jack/St George's flag.

The reason there's no problem with a tricolour at an EPL game is because the Premier League has an international fanbase, and flags of any country would be permitted.

Whereas the LOI has only a small (not even a national) fanbase and a Union Jack would cause mayhem (possibly).

If someone unfurled a tricolour at a Crawley Town or Accrington Stanley match then they would most likely be told to move it.

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the last part of your 'opinion' is very much wrong and you shouldnt say stuff if you dont have a notion about what your talking about, although irish tricolours would not be common at such lower league matches i dont think anybody could give a toss is england, a) because we are not small minded people like yourself... b) there are many young irish players in the lower leagues i think you'd find if you looked. and finally c) nobody could care less, its just a football match and someone is showing a flag which normally represents where there from, for example ireland, and they would be welcomed to whichever town or city in england very warmly and would properbly have a great laugh together with the english people in the pubs before and after the match no matter what division or standard of football they are spectating with there flag anywhere in england

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Originally Posted by The Lep

no .

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I'm fairly sure you're wrong.

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Originally Posted by MeathDrog

Didn't people die so that the St George/Union Jack wouldn't be seen in Ireland anymore?

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Without doubt the only reason anybody has ever died is to stop a bit of cloth appearing in Ireland.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Without doubt the only reason anybody has ever died is to stop a bit of cloth appearing in Ireland.

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I think it's what the cloth symbolised is what bothered them.

Personally I wouldn't appreciate anyone bringing ANY national flag to a loi game. At least have C'mon the Drogs or something written on it. Even then, I would ask why don't you have a Drogs flag?

Wouldn't mind these lads coming over with their flag as long as there was something written on it, but i'd still prefer if they had a club flag.

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Originally Posted by MeathDrog

I think it's what the cloth symbolised is what bothered them.

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Oh so its the symbols that annoyed them. Oh I get it know. it wasn't to rule their own country, but to get rid of the dirty brits and never let them display their symbols ever again

BTW I'm 100% with chatterbox.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Oh so its the symbols that annoyed them. Oh I get it know. it wasn't to rule their own country, but to get rid of the dirty brits and never let them display their symbols ever again

BTW I'm 100% with chatterbox.

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Not necessarily saying that, I'm merely playing devil's advocate.

Agree entirely, chatterbox. I also think Bohs should get rid of that stupid tricolour on their collar. Your colours are red and black!

Personally I find the tricolour offensive as a symbol of the subjugation of my class by the nationalist-led reactionary elite and from now on will thump anyone who displays it at an LoI game, possibly whilst instigating a riot.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Dear oh dear. Those guys are hardly responsible for "800 years of oppression etc", indeed I'm sure they're hardly even aware of it. Indeed, if they were prejudiced and antagonistic towards Irish people etc, I'm sure they wouldn't want to visit Ireland in the first place, never mind give their money to an organisation like the GAA.
They were just a group of lads who were in town for a break and they fancied going to a local sports event. As such, they would be positively welcomed in any other country (with a quiet word about the flag etc, where appropriate). But here, despite being happy enough to take their money, the GAA then threatened to kick them out for what was a simple misunderstanding. Pathetic.


Sadly, you're probably correct. Doesn't make such petty-mindedness any more acceptable (imo). People need to grow up and live in the present, not the past - especially when we're talking about a simple football match ffs!


And a football stadium is the correct venue for perpetuating such disagreements then, is it?
You know, considering you're a fan of a club which is notably successful in "managing" such a sensitive subject in far more difficult circumstances, I find it hard to believe that you appear to be defending clubs which ought to be in a position to avoid it altogether.

I appreciate that your prescribed penalty is exagerrated for effect (at least I hope it is! :eek:), but I still think you are over-reacting drastically to what is generally a pretty harmless gesture.
For example, there is a family of season-ticket holders who sit next to my usual seat at White Hart Lane. When the dad occasionally brings his teenaged daughter, she always brings a Tricolour with her, to wave whenever Robbie Keane scores (He's her favourite Spurs player).
Although she may be 1st or 2nd generation Irish, she is clearly English-born and bred.
What on earth harm is there in her waving her flag?

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EG - whatever end of the stick you have in your hand, it's clearly the wrong one.

Just because I understand why some people aren't happy with English/British flags at Irish sports grounds, doesn't mean I agree with them.

I can understand why some dog owners don't clear up their animal's sh!t after them, but that doesn't mean that I think it's alright.

Ireland has matured a lot recently over its attitude towards the English, but there's still a long way to go.

Nuff said.

Fair point Sheridan. I probably agree with you, but wouldn't be as passionate about it! On a slightly relevant point, does anyone think that we shouldn't play Amhran na bhfiann at FAI cup finals. I don't see the point really. Its not done in other matches through the year and a good few of the players aren't Irish. It would be like playing an EU anthem at international games. Doesn't really make sense to me. Or maybe its just too GAA for my liking.:D

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

Personally I find the tricolour offensive as a symbol of the subjugation of my class by the nationalist-led reactionary elite and from now on will thump anyone who displays it at an LoI game, possibly whilst instigating a riot.

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Make sure you sieze and redistribute their wealth whilst you're at it comrade...

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Originally Posted by MeathDrog

I'm fairly sure you're wrong.

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No im not :D

I doubt it that you will find anything in any irish history books that says people died just because they didnt like a flag. There was more important reasons to why people fought and died.

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

200,000 Irishmen fought under the Unon Jack in the First World War (as opposed to less than three thousand who fought under the tricolour in the 1916 rebellion). They obviously didn’t find it offensive. Daniel O’Connell, along with Parnell, the great nationalist leader of 19th century Ireland, had no objection to the Union Jack. (Many of his political meetings ended with a toast to the Queen). Certainly, militant republicans in the 19th century and early 20th century Ireland would have objected to the Union Jack, but they would have not have been anything like a majority of the population. The mood of the country (according to historian Tom Garvin) was that a quarter of the country was actively nationalist, a quarter actively unionist, and the remaining half mildly nationalist - eg. Home Rulers. The popular demonisation of the Union Jack is largely a post-independence invention of Irish nationalists.
I suggest you read Garvin’s ‘Nationalist Revolutionaries in Ireland’, or indeed any of his other books on Irish nationalism. Or indeed any books on Irish history, as you clearly buy into the old myths and prejudices.

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this thread is getting out of hand.

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Originally Posted by roinuj

this thread is getting out of hand.

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Indeed. Where are the mods in this place. Lads, can I ask ye all to stay on topic just for the sake of the thread please.

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Originally Posted by The Lep

No im not :D

I doubt it that you will find anything in any irish history books that says people died just because they didnt like a flag. There was more important reasons to why people fought and died.

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Oh never mind. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by boovidge

You have to live in England to realise how little the English know/care about their history with Ireland.

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Yeah thats def true, in fact they haven't a clue about their own country too

I dont care about flags, in fact I am half wondering if i even would stand for my own national anthem and flag these days as Im so embarrassed to be Irish (re politics, etc and just come back from a trip from Prague!)

I remember years ago Newcastle played in a 4 team tournament with derry city, psv and celtic, and there was a big union jack. A Celtic fan jumped the barriers at one stand, ran onto the pitch up to the flag overflowing from the stand with the Newcastle fans and ripped it off. I was amazed that the Newcastle fans didnt go mad (i would have!).
Jesus its their flag so why shouldn't they be allowed to display it!

also remember a union jack burnt in a dublin gah game for no obvious reason.

and remember I heard that a young fella got a horrid beating at a wolfe tones "concert" for waving a union jack - he thought it would be fun - so one needs to be well aware of the consequences of things like this. We are living in Ireland after all:eek:

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

and remember I heard that a young fella got a horrid beating at a wolfe tones "concert" for waving a union jack - he thought it would be fun - so one needs to be well aware of the consequences of things like this. We are living in Ireland after all:eek:

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He deserves a beating for just being there in the first place:o

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Yeah thats def true, in fact they haven't a clue about their own country too

I dont care about flags, in fact I am half wondering if i even would stand for my own national anthem and flag these days as Im so embarrassed to be Irish (re politics, etc and just come back from a trip from Prague!)

I remember years ago Newcastle played in a 4 team tournament with derry city, psv and celtic, and there was a big union jack. A Celtic fan jumped the barriers at one stand, ran onto the pitch up to the flag overflowing from the stand with the Newcastle fans and ripped it off. I was amazed that the Newcastle fans didnt go mad (i would have!).
Jesus its their flag so why shouldn't they be allowed to display it!

also remember a union jack burnt in a dublin gah game for no obvious reason.

and remember I heard that a young fella got a horrid beating at a wolfe tones "concert" for waving a union jack - he thought it would be fun - so one needs to be well aware of the consequences of things like this. We are living in Ireland after all:eek:

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I think your getting that confused with the guy who waved the flag of Ulster ( the real yellow one not the silly makey up white one ? who got the b@llocks knock off em buy a group of dickdheads who hadnt a clue what it was :D

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

200,000 Irishmen fought under the Unon Jack in the First World War (as opposed to less than three thousand who fought under the tricolour in the 1916 rebellion).

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That is the most unbelievable misrepresentation f history that I've seen. Question the motives of the men who went to war. They were promised Home Rule for all of Ireland if they fought. Good old Redmond. When a gain that great is promised, who wouldn't fight under a foreign banner? This thread is pointless and I've tried not to get involved, but that is simply daft.

As for Parnell and his toasts to the Queen - (as you have acknowledged) mainstream Irish nationalism was not associated with a complete withdrawal from the Union and the British Commonwealth/Empire until relatively recently. So it's another red herring you've thrown into the mix.

Anyway, by the end of the first world war, time had moved on significantly. And has done again between then and now. I wouldn't have a tricolour or a Union Jack anywhere near the Brandywell, simply because people will find an excuse to start a row over it. The majority of people in Derry believe that we are still "unfree" (note the inverted commas), so the Union Flag is generally considered to be a symbol of repression. I couldn't give a flying **** about what is displayed where, but many many people do, and in Derry (and the North as a whole) the majority care a whole lot.

Not surprised at the reaction in Croke Park but personally these things don't bother me, as long as it's not a ludicrously obvious wind up attempt.

Back on topic, I wouldn`t have a problem, no big deal to me if a fan from an English team came to oriel pk and flew their st georges flag with their team on it.

Its been an annoying sight for me for years, the sight of these 'fans' from Ireland drapped in their tricolours at games in the UK like giving the impression 'hey look at me, i`ve spent 9.99 on a flight and I`m at a game in the UK'

I think its an excellent point made by the Sunderland fans.

Just another example of double standards in certain Irish football fans, love english football but hate their national team.

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

200,000 Irishmen fought under the Unon Jack in the First World War (as opposed to less than three thousand who fought under the tricolour in the 1916 rebellion). They obviously didn’t find it offensive. Daniel O’Connell, along with Parnell, the great nationalist leader of 19th century Ireland, had no objection to the Union Jack. (Many of his political meetings ended with a toast to the Queen). Certainly, militant republicans in the 19th century and early 20th century Ireland would have objected to the Union Jack, but they would have not have been anything like a majority of the population. The mood of the country (according to historian Tom Garvin) was that a quarter of the country was actively nationalist, a quarter actively unionist, and the remaining half mildly nationalist - eg. Home Rulers. The popular demonisation of the Union Jack is largely a post-independence invention of Irish nationalists.
I suggest you read Garvin’s ‘Nationalist Revolutionaries in Ireland’, or indeed any of his other books on Irish nationalism. Or indeed any books on Irish history, as you clearly buy into the old myths and prejudices.

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Wow that is one of the most staggering pieces of revisionist muck ive ever read.
That would make Carson himself moist.
Firstly using the fact that 200,000 Irish men fought in the British Army in WW1 to back up that fairytale of yours is completely divorced from the context of the situation.
The context being that many joined out of a sense of patriotism exploited by Redmond and his ilke who were utterly reprehensible.
Not to mention the desperate financial situation of the majority of these men and how Ireland being systematically plundered for centuries had merely relegated the manhood of the country to a life of servitude in her majestys forces.
I love how you invoke the likes of O'Connell to back up that bullcrap, so I suggest you read up on Labour in Irish History before you start championing him to support your revisionist agenda.

Generally speaking symbols are irrelevant, but to some they matter alot.
I think any Englishman that wants to unveil his St Georges cross, he is more than welcome to as its his national flag but to me the Union Jack is a symbol of imperialism and colonialism.
Do I think it should be forcibly removed from the ground? No.
Would I rather if a symbol of imperialism wasnt waved in front of me? Yes.

I dont really care what flag they bring into grounds over here as long as there paying money to watch football in Ireland they should be allowed to bring whatever they like