UCD

All valid posts lads and sorry if leo grabbing that kid offended anyone, ill have a word in his little ears. didnt see much of the game but im told we played well. So we all have a view on jackman let the FAI know on Monday night (might hasten the move to the MF) or else Buckley park could be an option

I thought it was definately our best performance of the season. And it was also very entertaining. Big shout out to the lads.

As far as the young scobes go I suggest some waterboarding or some nipple torture in a dungeon in Cyprus. Beat them like a red headed step son!

Last Friday's trouble was a disgrace and really marred an otherwise fine performance on the pitch.

Please place some stewards near the cars for the next home game and stop these S***bags from entering the ground. Why should ordinary people pay when these scum come in for free and then wreak havoc in the ground. We will have lost a lot of families over the incidents last friday. Why do we shoot ourselves in the foot continuously when it comes to promoting the club?

Lot's of people volunteer at the ground but if you do and are a steward, well then you must be prepared to work and not ignore any trouble. If not Don't volunteer.

Why not offer the Stewarding to some of our unwaged supporters who could do with a few extra bob at the end of the week? Our crowds are down this year, mostly due to the current economic climate so it would give some deserving supporters a chance to be at their team's match on a friday night for free in return for some work for 2.5hrs. Instead we promote the club to teenagers with no interest who end up swapping tickets with others anyway.

As for the the 2 Cops ,well it just illustrates further the state this city is in when you have Police officers as proactive as those 2 muppets.:mad: No wonder we are screwd.

I fear the worst for the Shelbourne game because at the moment our stewarding is disfunctional.

Also Please stop giving out free tickets to Teenagers who have no interest in watching the game and instead give them away, maybe, in Local Radio, Newspaper competitions etc. where people who actually care about watching a match would enter. It's getting like a Teenage Disco in here on a Friday night.


That said. Fair Play to Pat and the Lads for the great on pitch performance on Friday. Pity I can't say the same for off pitch (for the 2nd time this season) similarly.

Yours
JohnD

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Originally Posted by JohnD

I fear the worst for the Shelbourne game because at the moment our stewarding is disfunctional.

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Il echo this sentiment. Against Shels last year they brought a big support of whom ran onto the pitch when they scored and extra Guards had to be called. If they think two stewards will be able to handle this come June 22nd then it really will be a free for all. Imagine if that crowd of twenty from last Friday night came upon the Shels fans, it'd be like something out of Football Factory!

Is it true that if you ask the Gardai for extra men that they want you to pay them?

Heard this on Friday night, that they'll send up two but if you want more you have to hand over money. Disgrace if that is the case

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Originally Posted by Pious37

Il echo this sentiment. Against Shels last year they brought a big support of whom ran onto the pitch when they scored and extra Guards had to be called. If they think two stewards will be able to handle this come June 22nd then it really will be a free for all. Imagine if that crowd of twenty from last Friday night came upon the Shels fans, it'd be like something out of Football Factory!

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Could attract the kind of people who arrived to Hogan park a few years ago when Shamrock Rovers played in the first divsion. Only down for a fight. I think more Gards specifically there for crowd control is what will be needed for this match. Better safe than sorry. Just to clarify its not the genuine fans from either club i mean than gards would be for but the clowns that have no interest in the game but are just there for trouble.

Was there no ambulance at the game, by the way?

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Originally Posted by jebus

Is it true that if you ask the Gardai for extra men that they want you to pay them?

Heard this on Friday night, that they'll send up two but if you want more you have to hand over money. Disgrace if that is the case

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Why? The taxpayer shouldn't have to subsidise crowd control at a commercial event.

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Originally Posted by jebus

Is it true that if you ask the Gardai for extra men that they want you to pay them?

Heard this on Friday night, that they'll send up two but if you want more you have to hand over money. Disgrace if that is the case

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That's the way it is in England too. Thousands of pounds are handed over, even for teams down the Football League, to police for football matches.

Not sure how much the Gardai would be looking for, but surely it is a necessity for the next few homes games to have a greater police presence at Jackman.

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Originally Posted by John83

Why? The taxpayer shouldn't have to subsidise crowd control at a commercial event.

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Would have assumed that our guardians of the peace would think it in the public's interest to send a few to gatherings of this kind? Especially considering that they are decent pay and pension to serve the public I would have thought it nonsense that they ask for donations or whatever they call it

Probably too busy sitting in their cars in Mungret waiting for one speeding car to pass per three hours though

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Originally Posted by jebus

Would have assumed that our guardians of the peace would think it in the public's interest to send a few to gatherings of this kind? Especially considering that they are decent pay and pension to serve the public I would have thought it nonsense that they ask for donations or whatever they call it

Probably too busy sitting in their cars in Mungret waiting for one speeding car to pass per three hours though

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I don't want to start an argument over it, but Limerick are arranging the event for profit. I think it's reasonable that they pay for the necessary security.

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Originally Posted by John83

I don't want to start an argument over it, but Limerick are arranging the event for profit. I think it's reasonable that they pay for the necessary security.

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From a security firm yes, from public servants no

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Originally Posted by jebus

From a security firm yes, from public servants no

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Its true at all sporting events though..If you want an extra garda presence you have to pay for it....

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Originally Posted by John83

I don't want to start an argument over it, but Limerick are arranging the event for profit. I think it's reasonable that they pay for the necessary security.

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:eek:

Mods, please move this post to the appropriate thread :
http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=1816

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Originally Posted by gaidin

Its true at all sporting events though..If you want an extra garda presence you have to pay for it....

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I realise that. It's the practice I'm criticising, not that Limerick FC have to pay.

If there's a gathering of citizens on this island, especially at an event where there's a higher chance for public disorder then surely the Gardai should have a visable presence, isn't that what they get paid for? To maintain public peace?

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Originally Posted by jebus

I realise that. It's the practice I'm criticising, not that Limerick FC have to pay.

If there's a gathering of citizens on this island, especially at an event where there's a higher chance for public disorder then surely the Gardai should have a visable presence, isn't that what they get paid for? To maintain public peace?

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Oh ya, I agree with what your saying. The gardai should have a presence. But to them its all about resources, budget, etc, etc.


Its same all over europe (for football games anyway) as far as I know...

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Originally Posted by jebus

If there's a gathering of citizens on this island, especially at an event where there's a higher chance for public disorder then surely the Gardai should have a visable presence, isn't that what they get paid for? To maintain public peace?

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I'd go along with John83 and say that when a private company has chosen to organise a public gathering (especially when they are charging admission to this event) they should be responsible for maintaining public order.

By your argument above, wouldn't the police need to be stationed (for example) inside loads of bars and nightclubs where there are hundreds of drunk people and some chance of public disorder?

while not disagreeing with you there always seems to be extra gardai outside the ground at the end of games,as there does at the end of the night when clubs and bars close.Maybe its to do with public areas like the main roads ect,as opposed to inside private land (clubs,bars,sports grounds) which might be outside their remit.

Decent game at last. Some of the games at Jackman this season have been awful.
Why did they seat the terrace though and are they going to continue to enforce no standing there now ?

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Originally Posted by osarusan

I'd go along with John83 and say that when a private company has chosen to organise a public gathering (especially when they are charging admission to this event) they should be responsible for maintaining public order.

By your argument above, wouldn't the police need to be stationed (for example) inside loads of bars and nightclubs where there are hundreds of drunk people and some chance of public disorder?

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They have paid security inside so its not needed, but I do think there should be more Gardai in and around the nightclub areas alright, ditto big pubs

It is their job to protect the peace and serve this island's citizens no? If there is a chance that some of this island's citizens will break that peace (i.e. the Pats and especially the Shels games) then surely it is their job to be at said event to do their job? Am I the only one that thinks this? I actually wouldn't mind them saying that they don't have the resources, but I think it's appalling that they ask for a fee to do a job they are already being paid to do.

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Originally Posted by LK37oldskool

while not disagreeing with you there always seems to be extra gardai outside the ground at the end of games,as there does at the end of the night when clubs and bars close.Maybe its to do with public areas like the main roads ect,as opposed to inside private land (clubs,bars,sports grounds) which might be outside their remit.

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It's not outside their remit if they are allowed into the ground/pub/whatever by it's owners with the specific instructions of keeping the peace. If they have the resources to do this if they get that extra payment then they have the resources to do it, full stop and should do so if asked

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Originally Posted by jebus

They have paid security inside so its not needed

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But if a bar owner chose not to pay for security, he could effectively force the police to be his security, couldn't he?

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Originally Posted by jebus

It is their job to protect the peace and serve this island's citizens no? If there is a chance that some of this island's citizens will break that peace (i.e. the Pats and especially the Shels games) then surely it is their job to be at said event to do their job? Am I the only one that thinks this? I actually wouldn't mind them saying that they don't have the resources, but I think it's appalling that they ask for a fee to do a job they are already being paid to do.

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No doubt that they are paid to protect the peace, but I don't think that necessarily extends to a duty to do it everywhere. Limerick, by choosing to have a football team playing matches, are creating the possibility of disorder. I think it is right that if Limerick want a police presence inside the ground, they should have to pay for it.

I do agree with your point that the "we don't have the resources" line suddenly disappears if they will be paid for it.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

But if a bar owner chose not to pay for security, he could effectively force the police to be his security, couldn't he?

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Non-point really as a nightclub or large bar wouldn't be given a license to operate by the Gardai without assurances that they would have security and so the Gardai will have done their bit to ensure the peace is kept somewhat on the premises. If he chose not to pay security in a large venue he wouldn't be allowed open by the Gardai. As far as I'm aware there is no such requirement when seeking a license from the FAI

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Originally Posted by osarusan

No doubt that they are paid to protect the peace, but I don't think that necessarily extends to a duty to do it everywhere. Limerick, by choosing to have a football team playing matches, are creating the possibility of disorder. I think it is right that if Limerick want a police presence inside the ground, they should have to pay for it.

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You see I belive that it is their duty to police everywhere within reason (obviously they shouldn't be allowed walk into a premises without just cause or without permission), but if they are asked to police a public event then I feel they should either comply or decline and give their reasons why. I'm against this policy of public servants asking for what I would deem a bit of cash under the table to do their job.

As for having a police presence inside the ground, well someone here has stated there is normally a presence outside the ground, and even if you don't believe that the Gardai should be inside the ground without payment you must agree that they need to police the streets after such a gathering right? Assuming you do then why wouldn't they have a presence inside the ground if invited to do so to act as a deterrent?

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Originally Posted by jebus

Non-point really as a nightclub or large bar wouldn't be given a license to operate by the Gardai without assurances that they would have security and so the Gardai will have done their bit to ensure the peace is kept somewhat on the premises. If he chose not to pay security in a large venue he wouldn't be allowed open by the Gardai. As far as I'm aware there is no such requirement when seeking a license from the FAI

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Of course the FAI licencing process requires that you provide security. The checklist the match delegate works off has various boxes to be ticked for stewarding.

Whether paid or voluntary, all stewards are supposed to be trained.
All stewards are supposed to be in place at their stations an hour before kick-off, which is when the turnstiles are supposed to open to the public.
Everyone working in the ground should have a briefing meeting before the ground is open to the public.

AFAIK, everyone working for the club on match nights is a volunteer.
Given the reliance on volunteering, the above is very difficult to achieve on a consistent basis (it would be difficult enough even if people were getting paid). For starters, people live busy lives, and whether it's work or other commitments, along with Limerick's terrible traffic problems, it's difficult to have everyone in the ground for 6:15pm to have a meeting.

The ground may be open to the public for approx 3 hours on a match night (the match itself lasts about 1hr50mins), but that entails 3.5-4 hours work for those working there. This is quite a lot of free labour that volunteers are donating to the club. However, without this generous contribution the club could not survive (the club is running at a loss as it is, so adding extra labour costs would virtually wipe out the average remaining match night income).


All this discussion, which is now spreading over 2 threads, should be in a thread of its own.