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You wouldn't be the first person to support the ROI team in spite of the FAI.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
To paraphrase Mo from the Simpsons, I wish Northern Ireland well in that I wish them no specific harm. Personally, I'm still hoping Slovenia can qualify from the group.
But it's always going to be difficult not to view the NI team with an attached political identity when the existance of that entity is questioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Personally, I used to actively support the north, maybe even more so than the south.
I despise Celtic, but the Lennon thing turned me very much against the NI team, to the extent that I wanted them to get thrashed in every game they played.
Recently I've gone to a few NI games with the intention of supporting NI (although I refuse to go into the stand for GSTQ), but find myself wanting them to lose, and being disappointed when they win.
I guess I'd like to think I'm in the (a) catergory, as they're a team of Irishmen, but I think I'm actually in catergory (b) in that I fail to associate myself with the team in any real way. It just doesn't feel like 'my' team, whilst it does feel like 'my' team when I'm at a southern game.
I'd have no problem wishing them well as in get a result against any other team and getting through their group to the last 16. It's only natural. Whatever díckheads are in the IFA wouldn't bother me in the least.
It was great to watch their progress in the 82WC.
.
I support NI in spite of the IFA. I cannot support ROI because of the FAI. The distinction is important. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
I suppose the FAI's one saving grace is that it's not the most incompetent football association in existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Difficult for some people, not difficult for other people, not relevant for yet more people.Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
I accept that it is important to you, as is your right. But in the end, it is only important to you because you make it so.
Exactly which aspect(s) of the Lennon thing was it which caused you to change your views so much? Were you at the Norway game where he was booed? Or any of the subsequent games he played for NI? (Genuine questions, btw)Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
If I've got this correct, before the game you want NI to win, but by the end you want them to lose. What is it that transpires in between which accounts for this transformation?Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
And re GSTQ, I'm no fan of it being played at our games, either (I find it's a good time to visit the bog - no queue - for a last-minute slash, as it happens).
However, when I used to attend Ireland rugby games at Lansdowne, my attitude to The Soldiers Song was always: "Stand Up, Shut Up, Now Enjoy the bloody Game!" (That is, I refused to let it be important to me)
Obviously I regret that you cannot feel able to join the GAWA, but it's a free world; imo people may choose which football team they support, for whatever reason, or none.Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
Hmmm, not sure. I could have sworn you were ahead of us in the FIFA Incompetence Rankings? (It certainly wasn't the other FIFA Rankings...;))Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
You should be "supportive" of the FAI in that case ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Enjoy your month in the sun EG. Milk it for all it's worth :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
As Ealing says, there's another (likely quite large) category of fans in the Republic: those who will treat NI broadly like any other team from Iceland to Istanbul, and not be that bothered about whose politics they represent? To be honest, it's this category I feel most comfortable with. The problem is that it can be a small step from 'support them because they're an Irish team' to 'let's have just one Irish team'...Quote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
Any player who has grown up and played schools, club, provincial rugby in NI almost certainly considers himself Irish. Perhaps British as well, the two aren't mutually exclusive :)Quote:
Likewise, many (if not all) Southern supporters of the rugby team would view the 15 rugby players as 'Irish' even though one or two probably only consider themselves 'Irish' when on a rugby field
Still a real possibility: if everyone beats SMR twice and all other eight remaining games are home wins, Slovenia would have 11 points- level with the Czechs, and ahead of us and Poland on 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
I'm a bit puzzled by this. Why do you want them to lose? Something that happened during the games? What makes you change your mind each time?Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
As for GSTQ, I would just ignore it, like many of us do.
Aye, like Hitler and Stalin's saving grace was not murdering as many people as Mao? Not much of a recommendation, that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
True, but it's probably important for millions like me.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
No, wasn't at the game or subsequent ones where he played. I do realise it was the work of a few, but I thought we were past that. It maybe annoyed me more than it didn't matter what his religion was to these people, it was because he played for Celtic (also annoys me that Boruc got so much attention the other week). It was a minority, but a big enough minority to make me feel alienated from the NI team. (BTW, I'm aware of the Celtic-fest that sometimes surrounds southern games, which is why I'm reluctant to travel to away games)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I think it's a heart v head thing. I can sit here now and say that I want the north to qualify for the next WC, but come the next match I'm watching, I won't really. I will want them to lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather Round
I don't know what it is that stops me from supporting them. I'd guess that things I that I feel negatively about generally (NI flag*, the Windsor/Linfield connection, anthem, people cheering when the scores are announced and the south are losing, down to little things like people using the word 'Ulster' instead of 'NI') are associated with NI matches, and this can make me feel somewhat alienated from, and not entirely a part of, what NI team represents.
Maybe how I feel will change someday. Maybe not. But I'll keep trying.
(* I am aware that this is not realistically going to change, and it doesn't actually bother me that it's used at NI matches)
To be honest it irritates me too. I accept a lot of NI fans support Rangers (as I'll admit I did as I kid until I realised the Old Firm's wider malign influence), but I wish they'd leave it at home for international games.Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
Fair points. Although normally I favor the underdog team when NI aren't playing, I do sometimes instinctively find myself relieved when the Republic slip up, and to a lesser extent Scotland.Quote:
I think it's a heart v head thing. I can sit here now and say that I want the north to qualify for the next WC, but come the next match I'm watching, I won't really. I will want them to lose. I don't know what it is that stops me from supporting them. I'd guess that things I that I feel negatively about generally (NI flag*, the Windsor/Linfield connection, anthem, people cheering when the scores are announced and the south are losing, down to little things like people using the word 'Ulster' instead of 'NI') are associated with NI matches, and this can make me feel somewhat alienated from, and not entirely a part of, what NI team represents
Don't most NI fans just cheer England at the WC or EC finals?
Not at the last one :pQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I certainly don't (unless, as above, they're clearly the underdog). Obviously a proportion do, but I'd be surprised if it was a majority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
To be fair the Republic fans are just as guilty in this respect. Remember when they were booing "Lovenkrands" in a friendly match...and it turned out not to be him, muppets!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
The way I look at it there are a lot of idiots in the world. At a guess I would say the ratio would be 5:1 in favour of non-idiots (admittedly not much time dedicated to coming up with that result). That still leaves a nice few thousand at a football match letting the side down.
I respect the sincerity of your posts on this subject. The whole Lennon affair was obviously alienating for a whole lot of potential NI fans like yourself, as well as the player himself (obviously), which I greatly regret and deplore.Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
Sadly, the general impression has formed, prompted as I see it by the teams detractors, via a lazy or biased media, that "the NI fans hounded out Lennon because he was a Catholic/Nationalist/Celt etc"
Yet there is an additional story behind the whole business, which never gets told. I wasn't at the original Norway game where Lennon was booed (his first NI cap since signing for Celtic), but my brothers were.
The booing was by their reckoning the work of a small minority (10%?) of the crowd, almost all congregated on the Kop. No-one can verify this, but there is a strong suspicion that these were Rangers/Linfield fans, who may not even have been regular NI fans, but who had turned up especially for this game.
In a 3/4 empty stadium, for a game where we were getting humped by a mediocre Norway team, there was virtually no atmosphere, so the boo-boys' efforts were all the more amplified (this was the Sammy McIlroy era, when we were utter sh1te).
And I suspect McIlroy mishandled the situation, by substituting NL at half time, rather than marching the whole team out together for the 2nd half and facing the boo-boys down.
Anyhow, after an otherwise meaningless and crap game, the booing got all the attention from the media (understandable, I suppose, but no less annoying).
However, what wasn't reported was what happened next. For NL continued to play for NI, including the next home game v Ukraine. In my own case, the chance to show my support for him was the deciding factor in my deciding to fly back to Belfast for that game.
Which I'm glad I did, because the boo boys were now nowhere to be seen/heard - in fact, NL was cheered everytime he touched the ball.
Was this reported in the Press? Was it fcuk! :mad:
Anyhow, the whole thing was beginning to die down, until another episode occurred. Some Scotland-based NI fans went to an NI U-21 game (in Scotland) soon after. They bought some NL masks, and had a banner made up, stating "NI FANS SUPPORT NEIL LENNON".
The following weekend, the Scottish News of the World printed a photo of them with their banner, but deliberately cropped to exclude the "SUPPORT NEIL LENNON" part, under the headline "Neil Lennon Hate Mob".
Of course, the fans involved immediately threatened legal action, until the NOTW backed down and agreed to pay a five figure sum to a charity of the fans choice. However, they still made no effort to apologise properly and their "Correction" was tucked away where no-one would see it, weeks after the damage was done.
Anyhow, the general furore started to subside again, NL was continuing to play for NI without any fuss, when the next and final episode occurred. After McIlroy decided to make NL captain for a game, somebody in a housing estate in Rathcoole (I think) decided to phone a (non-coded) "Death Threat" to an NI newspaper. The whole thing blew up again, and on police advice, NL (understandably) decided it all wasn't "worth the candle" anymore.
Which is all that was needed for the media to dust off their "NI Fans threaten the life of their Star Player" headlines etc.
All this despite the fact that no-one has any idea whether the phone caller was even an NI fan.
Nor was there anything like the same fuss soon after when eg someone phoned a "death threat" directly to the Dublin Hotel Room of the Captain of the Australian International Rules Team, on the eve of their game with Ireland.
Do Chelsea fans still get tarnished since eg (so-called) Chelsea fans issued death-threats to refereee Anders Frisk after a Barcelona game, even in Sweden itself?
Do England fans still have to apologise for some racist sending a live bullet in the post to the home of Cyrille Regis, for "daring" to be black and play for his country?
Indeed, do Neil Lennon's own words, at an IFA "Football For All" Awards Night in 2007 ever get reported?
"Fans like Stewart [an award winner] are unsung heroes who have been brave enough to challenge sectarianism and who have actively created a more fun, safe and family orientated atmosphere at international games. [They] have made the atmosphere at Northern Ireland football games the envy of fans across not only Europe but world football. I would personally like to thank them for efforts."
Now I'm not claiming everything in the garden is now rosy - far from it - but I honestly believe the sh1t we NI fans have had to take over this matter is not only a fraction of the true story, but far out of proportion from what happens in football (and life) every day of the week.
Fair comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
Here's hoping.Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
Not 1/2 full as reported?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Seeing as you have quoted Lennon elsewhere, why don't we let his his account and his Fathers stand?
Death threats made me put family before football
"From the moment I went on to that pitch to play in the green and white colours of Northern Ireland, I was the target of an unremitting chorus of boos, jeers, catcalls and insults. In a half-empty stadium, the noise seemed to amplify and at times it seemed as though it was the only sound to be heard"
"It was premeditated by part of a hard core of the support which could not stomach seeing a Catholic Celtic player turning out for "their" country."
Lennon was being booed even before the humping began.Quote:
for a game where we were getting humped by a mediocre Norway team, there was virtually no atmosphere, so the boo-boys' efforts were all the more amplified (this was the Sammy McIlroy era, when we were utter sh1te).
The NI fans were cheering their team, then would stop to boo Lennon.
Belfast tele sportswriterQuote:
And I suspect McIlroy mishandled the situation, by substituting NL at half time, rather than marching the whole team out together for the 2nd half and facing the boo-boys down.
"It's little consolation that so many of the genuine home fans tried manfully but unsuccessfully to drown out the boring, predictable and unoriginal chants. The currency of a new 21stcentury Northern Ireland took a severe battering."
Neil´s Da
"But I would not go to Windsor Park last Wednesday night. Neil had far too much pressure already on his shoulders. There was talk pre-match of death threats, of him being singled out for special abuse. He did not want me to have to sit through that, to listen to all of that hatred.".
´ Instead, he waited at home. Inside the ground, he had friends placed at strategic positions. Every part of the stadium was covered by a network of mobile phones.
The constant messages they relayed back to the Lennon household in Lurgan made the father of the Northern Ireland International glad he was not there, to hear and watch as his son was treated to the modern day equivalent of human bear baiting.
A lot has been made in certain quarters about the support that Lennon got from the decent, and there are many, Northern Ireland supporters. But talk about the Billy Boo Boys and the sectarian chanters being a small vocal minority is nothing short of a disgraceful attempt to sanitise and distort the picture still being conveyed of football in the North.
Annoying ???Quote:
Anyhow, after an otherwise meaningless and crap game, the booing got all the attention from the media (understandable, I suppose, but no less annoying).
Lennon was already in the headlines as death threats were daubbed on walls, newspaper headlines,even some of the politicians were getting in on the pre game build up. It was only natural that the NI highest profile player getting roundly booed would hit the headlines, it would have been a major shock if any journalist who was there, was not sickened to their stomach.
There was no evidence that it was a football fan at all.Quote:
Anyhow, the general furore started to subside again, NL was continuing to play for NI without any fuss, when the next and final episode occurred. After McIlroy decided to make NL captain for a game, somebody in a housing estate in Rathcoole (I think) decided to phone a (non-coded) "Death Threat" to an NI newspaper. The whole thing blew up again, and on police advice, NL (understandably) decided it all wasn't "worth the candle" anymore.
Which is all that was needed for the media to dust off their "NI Fans threaten the life of their Star Player" headlines etc.
Please do not minimise the effect or reality of the death threat on Lennon at that time. He was a target for sick twisted minds as has been amply demonstrated time and time again. It seemed real enough to Neil at the time
"We were having our pre-match meal when two officers from the newly named Police Service of Northern Ireland arrived.
As soon as I heard there had been a phone call, I knew what it was and my heart sank into my boots.
I knew I was 'fair game' for any madman wanting to make a point and I had anticipated someone trying to get publicity for their 'cause' after it was announced that I would captain the side.
But I had not thought it would go as far as someone threatening my life."
The NI fans deserved every bit of the flak then, good fans suffered as well.Quote:
Now I'm not claiming everything in the garden is now rosy - far from it - but I honestly believe the sh1t we NI fans have had to take over this matter is not only a fraction of the true story, but far out of proportion from what happens in football (and life) every day of the week.
Just my thoughts on the issue but to me NI fans generally have a bigger thing about disliking the RoI. Most NI fans that I know would give off about them and would claim to support whoever they are playing often hear them slaging Gibson as well!
Generally RoI fans from the South wouldn't get too worked up about NI, I remember watching a Republic match in a bar down here and it came up on the screen that NI had scored in their game and people started cheering! somehow I doubt you would get that happening in a bar in East Belfast if the Republic had scored.
A large proportion of N.I. fans come across as extremely political - I know some people who were at Windsor Park for an under-age game and they felt they couldn't say their children's names because their names were Irish. Also, the N.I. fans were cheering when England scored, which is strange to say the least. They bring it upon themselves really and I agree fully with geysir about the Neil Lennon comments.
Fair enough. I think there are clear reasons for this. But it hasn't always been thus, and may change again. If- for example- the two FAs- agreed not to pick players from each other's area, or at least not if they'd already played for the other's youth and U-21 teams :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SolitudeRed
Not going to happen, you may say, and I'd probably agree. But if not, you can hardly be surprised at the stick.
I think Gibson's a good player and capable of establishing in both the English Prem and your midfield, by the way. But as he didn't want to play for us, bye bye.
Hmm. They do get animated sometimes, though- such as every time someone starts a thread here suggesting an all-Ireland team (which of course basically means the NI team gets abolished or swallowed). There's always plenty of interest, not of all of it from the usual wind-ups.Quote:
Generally RoI fans from the South wouldn't get too worked up about NI, I remember watching a Republic match in a bar down here and it came up on the screen that NI had scored in their game and people started cheering! somehow I doubt you would get that happening in a bar in East Belfast if the Republic had scored
Aren't there any bars left in the Short Strand? :) Nobody there, or in the unionist areas of east Belfast, is suggesting the Republic of Ireland loses its team. There's an obvious difference...
See above for possible explanation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
To be honest, they sound a bit oversensitive. Or maybe they're pulling your leg?Quote:
I know some people who were at Windsor Park for an under-age game and they felt they couldn't say their children's names because their names were Irish
Not sure what you're referring here, but the implication that NI fans tend to support England is wrong. Of course, as a largely successful country who to tend to qualify, and whose leagues dominate the local media, they have some fans in NI- but then the same applies in the Republic too. For example, RTE's advertising rates for England games are much higher than for any other foreign country. Because they attract a bigger audience (source: Ken Early, Newstalk 106, Dublin).Quote:
Also, the N.I. fans were cheering when England scored, which is strange to say the least. They bring it upon themselves really
I hesitated before replying to this (when the intimidation of Lennon happened, I thought immediately that it would damage local football for years to come, and that still stands). I certainly don't downplay its effect then. But while I personally don't claim for one moment to have 'suffered', I think the flak was over the top. Contrary to what Lennon's father said, NI fans generally have not tried to sanitise- we accept where intimidation and prejudice existed and have tried to overcome it.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Possibly (although I doubt they'd 'pull my leg' over such an issue), but it is certainly an indication of how some people feel when they travel to Windsor Park, if even only for an amateur under-age game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
I can't see how it can be wrong, when the guys in question, wearing N.I. jerseys, were cheering when the England youth team scored - my apologies if it came across as if I was speaking in general terms. I was in fact speaking about the same game that the people I know were at. But you have a point, it might not necessarily be an indication of the majority of supporters' allegiance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
I understand your concern about that so-called 'agreement', but further developments had transpired after that and prior to the Gibson situation. I certainly would fully back any young man born on the island of Ireland, to decide what his national identity is, especially taking into account our unique history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
I've being going to games at Windsor since the early 70s and never had that sort of problem (although admittedly my real name is Billy :) ). More importantly, I've never seen nor heard anyone else experience it recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Sorry to be sceptical. I'd probably be a bit more convinced if you said you'd seen it yourself.Quote:
I can't see how it can be wrong, when the guys in question, wearing N.I. jerseys, were cheering when the England youth team scored
It definitely isn't.Quote:
it might not necessarily be an indication of the majority of supporters' allegiance
See threads previously (and there are plenty). But I was just explaining here why Gibson gets stick and NI fans are whining. As I said, I don't agree with it, but neither of us can be surprised that it happens.Quote:
I understand your concern about that so-called 'agreement', but further developments had transpired after that and prior to the Gibson situation
Good man. I've no problem with anyone's national identity, whether it's shared, or changed, or whatever. However, I do think that it's reasonable forQuote:
I certainly would fully back any young man born on the island of Ireland, to decide what his national identity is, especially taking into account our unique history
a) adult footballers to be able to play for only one country during their career, and
b) the age at which they're considered adult to be rather lower than it is now, ie 18.
Please get your facts correct before attempting to interpret my argument....Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Where did I mention midnight attack?or sh1tty council estate? The abuse was meted out by both adults and children before and during under16 games....perhaps this was an oversight on your part, or it could be that you are so argumentative you refuse to see the facts...
OK Den, but the question remains- why do you think some abuse at a youth game (however unpleasant) is worse than a large minority of another country's support smashing up Lansdowne Road?
GR, have you become EGs spokesman?:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
To answer your question? probably not, but the original question was to whether or not we would support NI. The abuse suffered at the Milk Cup was one of the reasons I gave....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
Think of me more as your editor, Den :)
Your original reply was that you would support any other team than NI. You then ignored later questions about why we were so much worse than other fans with a reputation for misbehaving at matches.
My reply is that I would still support any other team more than NI. My reasons I listed above.With regard to you're questions as to whether or not you are worse than any other fans - I would say some yes....others no.However, different situations affect people in different ways, and thus my experiences of NI fans mean I would support any other team opposing NI(possibly with the exception of Turkey....can't make my mind up on that one).Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Perhaps if I suffer at the hands of, say, San Marino in the future I shall change my views
I suppose I should be flattered, always assuming we can hold off the challenge from Turkey. Can I ask what bad experience you had watching them?
Actually, I never experienced anything bad while following Ireland against Turkey. However a few friends told me that they were urinated on,from tiers above by home supporters at a Euro Qualifier for 1992 finals. Then, some years later in Izmir there was war where the fans invaded the pitch and Tony Cascarino got punched(though that might not be a bad thing lol). I suppose what really angers me is that the turks were responsible for some serious stuff and always seemed to get away with it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
However,I also had the lack of sense to travel with Leeds United to Istanbul in 2000 when the two Leeds fans were stabbed to death.
My apologies - I thought you were referring to a (more recent?) incident loosely connected to the Milk Cup where some players from Cherry Orchard and another Dublin team were abused in their accommodation one evening by a group of local yobs from a nearby Council Estate. The Media, with typical lack of context, used the Milk Cup name to sensationalise the events when, in truth, the fact that it was a bunch of youth footballers was actually pretty irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
Anyhow, from your post, am I to take it that you consider verbal abuse of a sectarian nature etc, from some spectators at a youth tournament, to be greater excuse for not having anything to do with that countries football team than e.g. full-scale rioting (England) or "Welcome to Hell" etc (Turkey)?
If so, it seems to me you are being extremely discriminating (true sense of the word) in what it is which deters you, as against what it is you will tolerate, which was only my point from the very beginning.
Perhaps you would like to tell me what it is motivates that discrimination?
P.S. Do you happen to be a Leeds United fan, by any chance?
Hesitation, that's a sign of progress :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
There was an deep enough element of despair however it was a matter of time to realise that it was the morons who actually died their death then, not football.
I would regard some of EG's account as delving into subtle forms of mild to medium sanitisation, not supported by the overall picture from Neil's own account and experience.Quote:
I certainly don't downplay its effect then. But while I personally don't claim for one moment to have 'suffered', I think the flak was over the top. Contrary to what Lennon's father said, NI fans generally have not tried to sanitise- we accept where intimidation and prejudice existed and have tried to overcome it.
Neil's Da comments are an interesting perspective, but have to be naturally regarded as an unconditional subjective perspective.
Neil himself could differentiate between the football supporter and the morons who abused and threatened him.
If NI get through, I think in general people in the South would wish the team well. It was different in the past WCs, when personalities like Jennings, O'Neill and Whiteside were playing, most were already familiar with and respected them.
Don't start ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I meant that I've reacted often enough to the Lennon affair (including on here), but still now largely as I did then. So little to add. I've read Lennon's autobiog which I thought better than most of its type. If anything, what impressed me was how self-critical he was, particularly about his illness.
Indeed, our individual players (like yours, and Wales's) may be less well known now that fewer of them play in the English Prem.Quote:
If NI get through, I think in general people in the South would wish the team well. It was different in the past WCs, when personalities like Jennings, O'Neill and Whiteside were playing, most were already familiar with and respected them
Roll on June and September...and of course July, when there's a decent chance the Crues will be heading your way to take on the mighty Fram or Keflavik :)
Apology accepted...perhaps I am discriminating, but am I not entitled to have my views? I personally feel (and there is no way of proving this...just my instinct and a few examples) that the vast majority of NI fans would rather we do poorly in our matches. Thus, I would most definitely not support them(unless I had money on them...which would be highly unlikely)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Its nothing personal against you EG (in fact I find some of your posts quite interesting) just a football rivalry thing I suppose.
BTW, what is the purpose of your question re whether or not I'm a Leeds fan?
I would like to see them well if I am being honest. Dont get me wrong I suppose in way if they say got final im not sure I be rooting for them as much but at same time I wish them all the best and would not like see them get trashed.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Remember my dad on about 82 and 86 and he told me he was shouting for North..In way was surprised to see so many Irish supporting them at time but in fairness Bingham did not give dam what religion you were once he felt you were good enough that was that..
The famous meeting in November 93 I suppose changed that in way...I was only 11 at time so kind still did not understand the situation until later years but I do remember my dad being annoyed at how the players espcially Mcgrath (and Phelan i think) got treated
At end of day I think we all need to move on. The Northern fans are good decent fans just want what all ROI fans want and that is qualify for major competitions and dare I say win them :D..
There still a few that still put bad name on North which is shame but there only a handful and thats max. At end of day I have also seen couple Republic fans (actually there not fans there scumbags) who are no saints themselves..every country has them including our own but I am glad that the real ROI fans are ones who make our name as best supporters around remain at the very top.
It was well worth reading your long post for this sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian
Of course you are entitled to your views - just as I must be entitled to express my disapproval when your views appear to be influenced by prejudice and ignorance, rather than by purely objective, footballing factors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
Not sure that it's the vast majority (though might be); anyhow, "I don't like them because they don't like us" is the basis of most footballing rivalries, and so long as that is not used as an excuse for excessive abuse of the other lot etc, it seems acceptable enough to me, I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
Some revisionism going on here, I must say, for in an earlier post (#22), you explained your antipathy towards NI as follows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
"I supported them in '82 and '86, but after experiences at the Milk Cup and what went on in '93 I would support any other team (even Turkey) ahead of NI"
No sign of anything about "NI fans wanting to see ROI teams lose" there...:rolleyes:
Really? Care to explain this particular comment, then, also from post #22?Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
"I feel a little guilty towards Gather Round, because you seem a decent sort,but Ealing Green is another reason I would not support NI."
(On second thoughts, no explanation is necessary, since I'm just about managing to cope with the hurt ;))
Simple enough, really. You have explained your disinclination to give any support to NI due to instances* of bad behaviour by (some of) our fans. "I'd sooner support England or even Turkey before NI" was how you put it, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
Now considering the Lansdowne Riot by England fans, plus the thoroughly disgraceful behaviour by Turkish fans (including murder), I concluded that that your dislike of the NI team/fans actually stems from irrational prejudice.
Then I noted that you had travelled to Istanbul with Leeds, which caused me to wonder whether you weren't also a Leeds United fan.
For if you are/were, considering that club's long and continuing reputation for hooliganism etc amongst the support, then for you to cast aspersions on the NI support would make you a hypocrite of a pretty low order.
* - Btw, were you actually at the Milk Cup to witness the abuse you cite? Were you at the NI/ROI game at Windsor in 1993? Have you ever been at any NI international, whether in Belfast or overseas?
I hate Northern Ireland fans for their treatment of some of the Catholic players. Remember Neil Lennon and his abuse over his Celtic move. Utter scumbags. Always hated them after that, even the abuse Arthur Boruc got last month when he was playing for Poland in Windsor. Totally uncalled for, apart from the fact he plays for a catholic team.
The only time i was remotely happy to see them win was when they bet the English a couple of years back.
So you always hated them, except when you were happy that they won? Make your mind up.
Boruc got stick because throughout his Celtic career he's been happy to play on his bogeyman image with Rangers fans. I mean, what did he expect facing a crowd including many of them?
As for the rest of us (who want nowt to do with the Old Firm and their bickering), how else do you react to an international keeper who basically throws two in his own net, is at fault for a third, and plays throughout like he'd never seen his back four before they met in the changing rooms to smoke crack? (Thanks to Maciej from Gdansk for that enduring image).
He's rubbish, you should move on.
Thats hilarious. I barely moved on to the subject and you tell me to move off it. I was just making my point i don't like NI fans/football team. Basically because of what they stand for on a whole. The Fact Boruc, Lennon, and im sure there are more, were abused(abuse like I've never seen before, near hatred) was just being used to get a point across.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
I presume your a Rangers fan from your post as well, so there is no point in trying to pursuade you.
The fact i was remotely happy when ye beat England is because i actually hate the English football team and their constant blowing themselves up as a world cup winning team every 4 years, and i love to see them get put back in their place.
You've little to add to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Midget Gem
They stand for playing for and supporting NI.Quote:
I was just making my point i don't like NI fans/football team. Basically because of what they stand for on a whole
Boruc got called a wan*ker (because Rangers fans don't like him) and a clown (because he played like one). You can't seriously claim never to have heard similar at other games.Quote:
im sure there are more, were abused(abuse like I've never seen before, near hatred)
You presume wrongly- "the rest of us (who want nowt to do with the Old Firm and their bickering" should have been a clue. Did you not read nor understand it?Quote:
I presume your a Rangers fan from your post as well, so there is no point in trying to pursuade you
Weren't you happy when we beat Spain then? Their media equally talks the team up as likely winners, albeit with more justification than England's.Quote:
The fact i was remotely happy when ye beat England is because i actually hate the English football team and their constant blowing themselves up as a world cup winning team every 4 years, and i love to see them get put back in their place