tickets for what?
Actually if duffy played in that game because its not a competitive game would he still be tied?!
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tickets for what?
Actually if duffy played in that game because its not a competitive game would he still be tied?!
Come on Paul, you know the answer to that. Lazy git!
Geysir, tell the man. And stick the eligibilty rules up as a sticky?
Yeh, I musta told ya he would get there about 5 years ago! When I spoke to him 4 weeks ago he said that he had not even had a word from Trappatoni or anyone else in the Ireland camp!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Granted we have a small squad at the best of times, but circumstances are dictating that hardly any of our senior or back-up players are available this time round.Quote:
Originally Posted by livehead1
Basically this game was arranged late, and at the behest of the Italians. But because a number of our players are involved in Play-Offs etc until the end of May, and all players need to report back to their clubs by July, nearly everyone had arranged their Summer holiday for early June, or were otherwise unavailable. (Chris Brunt, for example, is getting married that day, Grant McCann was on a Coaching course and a few more are injured).
As it happens, there are a number of decent enough players (Capaldi, Sproule, Duff, Carroll etc) who might have been called up to the squad, but for whatever reason, Worthington doesn't seem too keen on them, and since they are not part of his long-term plans, then he clearly prefers to look past them to the youngsters.
Consequently, this "senior" team is actually just an extension of recent "B" selections, which themselves were just an extension of the U-21 team etc.
I guess Worthy's reasoning is that if we only unearth one "nugget" from the kids, or "fast-track" another one 12 months sooner than otherwise, or persuade even one waverer to stick with us, rather than "defect" to you-know-who, then maybe it will be worthwhile enough.
Then again, if we get humped 6 or 8 goals (a possibility :(), then it could set us back further. No doubt Worthy is well aware of that, and if I had to guess, I'd say he'd have wanted to cancel it.
However, he can't do that, since the IFA needs the appearance fee, the game comes with a promise from Italy of a return in Belfast, plus the proceeds are now going to the Italian Earthquake fund, so if we pulled out now it would be a public relations disaster.
But you're right, our squad is very thin...
Risky strategy though I suspect Italy will do something similar.
We fielded some very strange players in the US under Stan. Not sure we learnt anything from it. I suppose any chance to look at your players & work with them up close gives you a good idea of their ability and character, and pitching them against better players to see how they perform can be useful.
Certainly is. Not sure what way Italy will play it. On the one hand, maybe they'll use it to try out some of their fringe players, maybe even a few locally-based ones (to boost the crowd etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Then again, they presumably wanted NI because they're drawn with you in the WCQ's, plus straight after our game in Pisa, they're heading out to S.Africa for a mini-tournament, which is obviously arranged on the basis that they'll qualify for 2010(!).
In which case, this friendly might be an integral, if minor, part of their overall plan?
Curiously enough, Sanchez "inherited" a two match US Tour he hadn't wanted in the Summer of 2006. We had a really makeshift squad out for that one, which meant two (current regular) players made their full debut earlier than they would otherwise have done: Sammy Clingan and (ahem) Kyle Lafferty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
For "fast-tracking" those two alone, the Tour was probably worth it.
As against that, we only lost 1-0 against (weakened) Romania and Colombia. A 6 or 7 goal drubbing by Italy "B" next month in Pisa could just as easily knock the present youngsters back the other way. :(
i bought a northern ireland jersey last week :O) i will support both now
Wonder why McCourt didn't get a callup. He's in a different league to McGinn for one.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Must be something to do with injury or unavailability*, since NW seems to rate him quite highly and he'd certainly be worth a place.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
* - Unless, of course, McCourt himself couldn't be arsed (not that I've any reason for suspecting so)
In the long term McGinn will be better than McCourt, plus as EG said, McCourt speculated McCourt is always unfit/injuredQuote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Back on topic, as much as I'd like to see Duffy chose us, I'm not all that upset that he's in the NI squad...they could probably use him more and from the player's perspective of he had declared for us he would of been nowhere near our squad to play Italy in Bari nor the return leg and now he looks like he's in line for a senior cap against Italy with t'other lot!
Well if he really wanted to play for us he would have rejected the call up, so fair play to him if he wants to play for NI and let that be the end of the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangball
If you look at it from the player's perspective, he's a 17 year old lad who has only been professional since his 17th birthday (the start of this year according to the Everton website) and he has been performing very well according to match reports from various sources, making massive strides with Everton and N.Ireland. If I was 17 and offered this chance to play against the world champions (whether it's a B team or not), and I hadn't received any word from the FAI regarding a call up to a youth squad - which appears to be the case - I'd be extremely excited and I'd see it as a massive opportunity to better my football career.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
I'm a Derry man and I have never and will never consider N.Ireland 'my team', but if Nigel Worthington was willing to reward my hard work with a senior cap against one of the top teams in the world, I'd probably be over the moon. I mean seriously, if you had to choose between senior international football with N.Ireland or u17 or u19 with R.o.I. what would you do?
I don't know but id like to think ROI. However I dont think at that age you are as patriotic as when you get older. Its more about the here and now unfortunately, but thats where strong guidance comes in from those closest and around i.e. his father. Paternal parents are always more influential in the patriotic stakes or at least should be.
Yeah it is about the here and now unfortunately. I think that Duffy is taking his chance while it is being offered because a career in football is a precarious one, such is its nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
According to an Everton fan forum, a guy claiming to be Duffy's cousin has stated that:
Link: http://www.toffeetalk.com/forums/ind...pic=8715&st=40Quote:
...Shane is eligible in every way to play for the Republic, holding an Irish passport and especially since his father is from Donegal...Some posters are claiming that Shane's Northern Irish, even though he has an Irish passport and would, like myself consider himself to be Irish. Given the opportunity, he'd preferably want to represent Ireland at international level, but if that opportunity did not arise, then certainly he'd like to be playing some form of international football.
Like you said, I can't imagine that Duffy is concerned with patriotism and all that. He seems to be more concerned with furthering his career. With regard to guidance from his father - I'm sure he would rather his kid played for the Republic, being from Donegal. Maybe the Republic snubbed him? It's times like these when I get annoyed with the FAI. If the guy is good enough for the North's senior team (regardless of the match circumstances) then surely he would be deemed good enough to represent Ireland at under-age level. The FAI should really have made more of an effort to get him into the set up.
Yes, exactly predator, thats what ****es me off to be honest. I wonder what half of these people do in these organisations, and get paid great money, I reckon they work about 10 hours a week, actual work, the rest is just taking it handy. They should be using any medium to find out about players and chasing them up etc.
Lot of sense there (imo).Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
P.S. This call-up will also be an opportunity to play for one of the top teams in the world, not just against one...;)
An earlier comment from "Noddy" (Duffy's cousin) from Jan08:Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
"Shane is actually also eligible to play for the Republic of Ireland, but he is keen on staying with the Northern Ireland team, because they have supported him all the way and also because the current group of players have a strong bond with one and other"
Breaking into the professional game is so bloody competitive that players need to remain absolutely single-minded on their career i.e. no time for drink, parties and girls etc, never mind politics etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Apparently his Da has also posted on that site (as "Finn Harp"?), stating clearly that he would prefer his son to represent ROI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
It has been reported that Duffy was invited, and trained with, with one of the FAI under-age squads a while back, but for whatever reason, nothing seems to have come of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
I have to disagree about the FAI's scouting set-up. Not only has it unearthed loads of 1st or 2nd generation players from GB down the years, but recently it has been very active in NI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
For example, an NI under-age team (U-16), made up of local NI-based players only, played their Australian counterparts, who were touring Europe at the time. Despite this game being very low-key (played in Fermanagh, late change of venue, early afternoon, midweek etc), two FAI Scouts were spotted in attendance.
By contrast, the IFA youth set-up was for years a total and utter joke - the responsibility of the U-21 manager, a jerk named Roy Millar, who made Don Givens look like Arsene Wenger (trust me, it's no exaggeration)
Anyhow, when Worthy took over, he insisted Millar be pushed upstairs, replacing him with an English mate called Steve Beaglehole(!). SB has already been an outstanding success, completely revamping the whole scouting and coaching set-up at all levels up to and including U-21. Already, this has led to us attracting a number of very promising 1st and 2nd generation youngsters from under the nose of the English FA etc.
Also, he and Worthington are attending to the (former) gaps in the network at home in NI, most notably Derry and the North West. And if the likes of Duffy and Eunan O'Kane are anything to go by, this may have turned the tide somewhat of players from that area opting for the ROI.
Anyhow, as far as Duffy is concerned, there are at least 6 specialist CB's (Hughes, Evans, Craigan, Duff, McAuley and Cathcart) who play regularly at Championship level or above, who would normally be ahead of him. Plus there are another 3 or 4 who play lower League football, or frequently deputise at CB, who should also be ahead of Duffy. Indeed, CB is normally our strongest position.
Therefore Duffy's elevation is both a reflection of just how many withdrawals we have had, but also how highly NW and SB seem to rate Duffy's potential.
I'm guessing (as others have said above) that he wants to keep his options open. Which is fair enough- as a teenage footballer his priority is probably to get a long-term contract in professional football. Playing representative football at any level from NI schoolboys up to full international must help with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
As EG says above, Worthy is using the game in Italy as effectively an U-21. It's risky, but we need the dough. Of course that's a bigger issue and well off-topic :)
Personally I think playing for a youth or U-21 international side after 18th birthday should prevent any player later turning out for another country. But while the rules are more flexible I've no problem with him keeping contact with FAI as well as IFA.
Its a similar situation to Neil Lennon, international football offer when you are an unknown quantity.
If he becomes a success in his career,he would probably also wish that he had bided his time, and waiting for the call he wanted.
Don't wish to be controversial, but it's nothing like Lennon. NL was never offered the opportunity to represent ROI, nor was such a possibility on the table for any NI-born youngsters when he was starting out.Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffler
Whereas, Duffy has come into football at a time when that avenue has been opened by the FAI. And as a Derry lad, he has the example of Darron Gibson to emulate (should he choose). Plus his Dad (and Mum?) are from Donegal and he has already been invited to train with one of the FAI under-age squads.
Which is not to say that NL would not have opted for ROI had he been born 20 years later. Then again, the whole atmosphere around playing for NI is markedly different from that which obtained when NL was in the team, which may be one of the reasons why youngsters like Duffy appear increasingly to be sticking with NI (or even returning, like Michael O'Connor and Tony Kane)?
That remains to be seen. Partly, of course, it may depend on how the two international teams fare over the next few years, as well as on the personality and experiences of the individual himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffler
However, it is not always "clear-cut". I daresay if you had asked eg Gerry Armstrong in 1977 when he was winning his first NI cap, he might have preferred it was for the ROI?
But by the time he won his last cap in 1986, there will have been no doubt whatever where his allegiances lay, allegiances which are now stronger than ever, 23 years later.
Ya in fairness, maybe Duffy is happier with NI, and always will be whether thats in 5 or 10 years. I spose if he is as happy with both at the end of the day it will come down to who has been more successful during his player years.
Obviously the temptation of a full call up to play against the Italians was too big a prize to turn down for any 17 year old kid, and good luck to the lad, especially as he has so little experience of reserve team football, never mind playing against an Italian side.
It would be interesting to hear what Sean McCaffrey and his team thought about Duffy when he attended an Ireland training camp last June.
I suppose it also dispels the myth that FIFA’s ruling on the eligibility of lads from the North playing for Ireland was going to cause some kind of religious segregation of players, with players from one community opting to play for one team and the others opting to play for the other team (as claimed by Unionist politicians and the IFA at the time).
Players will naturally make decisions based on what they think will help them in their future careers and Duffy has done that, just as his former teammate from Foyle Harps Patrick McEleney has decided to represent Ireland at international level, along with other Derry lads like David McDaid & Seamus sharkey.
It was always about choice and hopefully the hardliners will ‘wind their necks in’ and accept this in the future.
According to an article in the Belfast Telegraph, Duffy could be in line to start against Italy due to Craig Cathcart's withdrawal! For a 17 year old who has never played at senior level (except reserve and 'B' internationals), this is a big, big ask.
- Belfast Telegraph, 'Italians will go with rookies against Northern Ireland'Quote:
And with so many players unavailable Worthington isn’t planning on delving deeper into a limited pool of players for a replacement, leaving him with just four defenders, in the shape of the unattached Chris Casement, Crusaders Colin Coates, Everton teenager Shane Duffy and Manchester City reserve Ryan McGivern
Nigel Worthington has also openly stated the reason that he called Duffy up was an attempt to quell any interest from the Republic too. Damn him!!!
Daily Mirror, 'Duffy's on board for Nigel' 22.05.09Quote:
When I heard [of the Republic of Ireland's interest] I made sure I brought Shane into our Milk cup squad last summer. I wanted to get to know him, work with him and encourage him...He's a very talented player and I'm delighted to have him in this squad. He is only 17, but he is coming along very nicely at Everton.
There are some very good established Italian players in that squad too. It will be interesting to see how the young Derry man will cope.
He didn't figure in the match against Italy today, so technically he is still eligible for us.
Slightly surprising, as all the other U-21 guys got on as subs. We'll take the 3-0 beating overall :p
He was probably glued to the game in Sofia.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Only saw the last 20 minutes of the game, but I really liked the way NI played. Some good technical players, lots of passing and moving. A better aesthetic spectacle than Sofia, and not a bad result for a team of kids.
In fairness, it's much easier to play aesthetically in a friendly where the result has already been decided, than it is to play in a crucial world cup qualifier.Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
He doesnt seem to be interested in playing for us so end of as far as Im concerned. I read somewhere that Worthington had an agreement with Lippi that they would only use 6 subs, so the reason why Worthington didnt use the full bench and Duffy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
If he wasn't interested, why would he attend a training camp when invited? The way I see it is that he doesn't seem to have been offered opportunities from the FAI management teams, whereas he has been propelled through the ranks by the IFA management teams. Like I've said before, a career in football is a precarious one and perennially on the edge of doubt, so young footballers have to take their opportunities when they come to them - that appears to be what Duffy is doing. I still hope that he will perhaps be offered the opportunity to play for the Republic, but I won't fault him for his pragmatism; it shows a degree of maturity I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
Funny how some here saw our 1-1 draw in a qualifier there as a bad result and some see a 3-0 defeat there as not a bad result :)Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
Yeah, exactly and even at that, from the minutes I caught after the Ireland game, N.I. weren't exactly playing good football - they were clearly outclassed. The aesthetically pleasing football came from Italy, who seemed to be taking the p1ss at stages. Nevertheless, it seems that 3-0 is a respectable result considering the strength of the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Here's an article from the RTÉ website: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/0607/nireland.html
He clearly holds him in high regardQuote:
Only Everton's Shane Duffy did not take to the field in the Arena Garibaldi last night due to an agreement Worthington struck with Lippi before the game that only six substitutes would be used.
'I would have liked to have given him a little bit,' admitted Worthington.
'It's unfortunate because he was first class.
'I had a word with him and, even though he did not play, he has had a great season and played with the Under-19s.'
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that FIFA mandated that only 6 substitutes could be used in a friendly anyways?
This rule came into effect in 2004; has it changed since?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/3509153.stm
I think both teams can use more if they both agree before the game.
Then why was this so controversial:Quote:
Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...d-Cup-bid.html
One of our guys who was at the match posted the following on OWC:Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
"His [Shane's] dad was on our flight home, think he said that Duffy has been called up 'early' at every level in order to get him experience. I don't know how many subs they had agreed to make but if there was a limit then Duffy at 17 was most likely to miss out. He's young enough, hopefully he'll get a cap or two soon enough.
His dad was well impressed by our supporters too!"
I guess it's all to do with context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Basically, this was Italy's "B" team versus NI's "C" team - and we have barely a "B" team of our own! Coming into this game, NW might have picked a few reasonably experienced players whom for various reasons, he has overlooked before. Instead he took a gamble on bypassing them and opting to promote our youngsters.
As such, it was (almost literally) men against boys. We had eight of our starting XI making their first starts for NI. And when you count the subs, I think we had the same number winning their first ever cap. Our starting keeper (who had a blinder, btw, inc saving a penalty), was Tuffey, a 22 year old playing in the Scottish 1st Division, who was replaced by Mannus of Linfield with half an hour left.
We had a 28 year old Coleraine player (Carson) and a 22 year old Crues player (Coates) amongs the starters - they had never even been near a cap before now (unless you count Coates being a block booker, who before now went to games as a fan!).
Amongst our subs who came on was a Newcastle Academy youngster (Ferguson) who I don't think has even played for the Toon's Reserves, never mind their first team. Another was teenager James Lawrie, who has made a princely 8 starts for Port Vale.
Starting in midfield was teenager Corry Evans, who has been unused sub for MU on one occasion - the last game of the season against Hull (i.e. before the CL final v Barcelona). He was being marked by Rino Gattuso of Juventus, who has 50-odd Italy caps and a CL winners medal.
Our most experienced starter, Healy, went off injured in the first half, so NW moved Andy Little forward from midfield to replace him; teenager Little has, I think, one senior start for Rangers.
In the end, I was cautiously optimistic that we might avoid a complete drubbing (7 or 8 goals?), but that was only because once they've gone a goal or two ahead, it simply isn't Italy's style in friendlies to "fill their boots". However, I was concerned they might treat it as an exhibition match/training exercise, and start taking the p1ss out of our players.
Instead and to their credit, they took us seriously, not least because several of their fringe players treated it as an opportunity to impress Lippi. This was reflected in the report (in English) in the Gazzetta Dello Sport:
http://english.gazzetta.it/Football/...99398726.shtml
Consequently, whilst man-for-man Italy were always vastly superior to us, nonetheless we acquitted ourselves well, I'd say, since we never lost our shape or gave up trying.
P.S. Re the draw in Bari, I didn't see the game, but it seemed a great result to me.
I don't think the controversy was over the actual number of subs used; it appears a FIFA dispensation may be available for extra subs and even if it isn't obtained, it merely means the match loses official recognition - hardly the most severe of "punishments"Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Rather I think the controversy was that England were only out in T&T for a one-off friendly to suck up to Jack Warner (head of T&T FA) in the quest for votes in their 2018 World Cup bid. (A visit by England is a real money-spinner, not that the receipts always find their way into the coffers of the T&T FA, apparently: http://www.sundayherald.com/sport/sh...nt_do_that.php )
Anyhow, Warner assured England that he had sorted out permission for both teams to use extra subs, but when FIFA heard this, they denied it. Therefore, the "controversy" was actually the embarrassment caused to Warner, not the 7th substitution itself.
Players will naturally make decisions based on what they think will help them in their future careers and Duffy has done that, just as his former teammate from Foyle Harps Patrick McEleney has decided to represent Ireland at international level, along with other Derry lads like David McDaid & Seamus sharkey.
It was always about choice and hopefully the hardliners will ‘wind their necks in’ and accept this in the future.[/QUOTE]
Sharkey is not from Derry he is just part of their sqaud. He is from Donegal, he may have been born in Isle of Man. He is not making much progress anyhow.
I've seen a couple of our other U-21 games this term. The team looked good both against Germany in the last qualifier (0-3) and in a comfortable win over the Scots. The coach, Beaglehole is doing a good job and getting support from Worthington: he clearly takes the junior sides seriously, whereas Sanchez, McIlroy etc. didn't fully.Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
Possibly because we weren't playing 10 men for 87 minutes? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
At one point BBC commentator Mark Bright suggested that "the Crusaders lad should get tighter to his man". Coates took the advice and with his next touch sent both ball and opponent 30m upfield :)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen