Full of Seagull crap? It gets more like the Carlisle grounds with every post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever
Full of Seagull crap? It gets more like the Carlisle grounds with every post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever
Good chance SPL could lose auto CL place in a couple of years if overtaken by a few countries. SPL teams have poor record of negotiating the qualifying rounds.
Having been a season ticket holder in the past at Pittodrie and currently one at TC I can safely say Pittodrie is a far superior ground and that no LOI ground is better than any of the SPL grounds. (the atmosphere however at Pittodrie isn't as good as the box).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
Even taking out the old firm the SPL (and notwithstanding the recent European results) is clearly of a higher standard - it stands to reason - they have a captive market - with less interest in the Premiership than here (though it is substantial) - no GAA/Munster rugby to compete with - long tradition with much bigger media infrastructure etc. It would often be the case that the combined total crowds at the LOI of a Friday night would approximate to one big gate at Hearts/Hibs/Aberdeen (& not inlcuding the Old Firm) - saying that they seem to have the same ol mal administration etc etc as we do but all in all it is a bigger league - bigger crowds - better players - better standard (doesn't rock my boat as much as the LOI though!).
Take the Old Firm out of the SPL and within a few seasons that league wouldn't be much better then the LOI. As it stands the top few teams here would hold their own in the SPL. It's not a very good league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Light
The only way to settle this, is by putting the SPL sides into the Setanta Cup :D
I've no doubt that Celtic and Rangers are well ahead of our league.
I think otherwise our top teams would be very competitive with the middle order of the Scottish premier.
Hibs were stuffed home and away by Elfsborg this summer for example. Pats beat them at home and drew away.
Gretna's defeat by Derry is still a record home defeat for Scottish sides in Europe.
However we don't have the facilities of the middle order Scottish sides. I've been to grounds like Airdrie and Falkirk in recent years and they have facilities far ahead of our league. I know there are bad grounds too but by and large their grounds are well ahead of ours.
Real Madrid are in debt to a tune of 160 million pounds. Hmmm... looks like they've overspent to achieve success in Europe too. It's not uncommon. Best way to judge this is results on the pitch. LOI is obviously not as far behind Scotland as it once was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
I wouldn't agree with you at all - there is pretty much the same population as the island of Ireland - there is no GAA (so where here every own and village has a GAA club there there is a local football club) - rugby isn't as popular as here - the fixation on the Premiership isn't as much as here - they are football mad and have been consistently since the 19th century (more urbanised and industrialised historically) - the facilities are far better accross the board- the media interest is a factor of ten more than here. Even taking out the old firm there is much more support - much more money - much more local players than here - ergo it is of a better standard (nothwithstanding individual results in Europe - taken over the long term they are much more successful inlcuding winning trophies and not just the old firm) . As regards the Old Firm the remarkable thing is that how the other clubs have persisted even though it is quite clear they haven't a chance of winning anything (Hibs brought hundreds of supporters over to Cork a few years ago for a friendly (as regards recent results in Europe - we have punched above weight they have mucked it up). Personally I prefer the LOI but I often think we say these things about other leagues (the Irish League comes to mind) just to make ourselves feel better - it doesn't make it true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram72
That might actually be worthwhile, if they'd be willing. It'd up the competition and the interest. Might even pique the interest of a few bhoys in the LoI.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoss
Celtic and Rangers wouldn't touch it with UCD's, and I can't see why the likes of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc. would be bothered either to be honestQuote:
Originally Posted by John83
I meant excluding the old firm. There'd just be no point including them. You're right though, it'd be hard to sell the other teams on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
You honestly can't see the difference?? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
Comparing European results between leagues is always tricky as teams enter at different stages, but just look at last year. Aberdeen reached the last 16 of the UEFA Cup, beating Copenhagen 4-0 and drawing with Bayern Munich at Pittodrie, and Rangers reached the final. OK, this year has been the other extreme with Scottish clubs doing very, very badly, but seriously, what's the best result an Irish side has achieved in Europe in recent years? None of them have made even the group stages of a European club competition. I don't mean to sound disrespectful but there is a clear gulf in class between the Irish and Scottish leagues in my view. I'd say the Eircom League is closer in quality to the Welsh Premier than the SPL, I'm sure you'll all love me for saying that :)
Actually according to the UEFA ranking system we are virtually halfway between scotland and wales ( and thats with with the old firm included). From next season we close the gap to scotland even more. Take away celtic and Rangers and theres not a huge difference as results have shown. You mention Aberdeen - Bohs knocked Aberdeen out of europe a few seasons ago despite playing more than one half of one of the legs with only ten men.
It's all relative though. Welsh teams have beaten Irish ones in Europe the past too, as I'm sure Longford Town fans would tell you. There's also the summer football factor which unquestionably gives Irish teams an advantage in Europe compared to Welsh and Scottish ones, yet the Scots are still significantly ahead of you guys. According to wikipedia the Welsh coefficient is 2.331, ROI 7.332 and Scotland 33.375. There are a total of 25 places between Scotland and Ireland and only 11 between Ireland and Wales. In no way does that make Ireland halfway between Scotland and Wales.
I'm not sure I really accept the whole 'take away the Old Firm' argument either. Yes, they're atypical of the SPL, but so are the top teams in every league. I'm sure if you took away the top 4 Premier League teams England's record in Europe would not be as great. Similarly the top 3 in Spain or Italy. You can't leave out the Old Firm just because they're atypical.
Worth noting as well that the top teams in the League of Ireland have had to bankrupt themselves to get where they are now. While I'm sure there's money problems in Scotland, you don't have half the league giving out wage cuts, reigning champions going broke three years in a row, etc. Form next year, the gap will start to grow noticeably again.
yeah like elfsburg.....
the Scottish clubs not competing in Europe maybe who would be between 6th-9th who would have been hibs, falkirk, hearts and Inverness ct.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Inverness would be a long trip from cork:(
i would think turners cross would be up to spl standard at this stage (unless capacity is too small) bar that i would agree with you on the facilitiesQuote:
Originally Posted by Northern Light
The improvements to Turners Cross have been great and it is the best we have got in the league - nonetheless it is second rate (in terms of facilities) - I'm not bitchin about it - I love the place but an inpartial comparison to truly modern facilities would say that for a modern stadium - the seats are cramped - the main stand only gives partial protection from the rain, the accesses are too constrained and the facilities for supporters are pretty shabby (oh and the new shed leaks).
well rangers beaten and hearts thumped, rovers get a draw........
Celtic 0-0 FC Sion
Hearts 0-5 Spurs
NK Maribor 2-1 Rangers
Shamrock Rovers 1-1 Partizan Belgrade
Zombie thread!!!!!
LOI P15 W3 D3 L 9
SPL P8 W0 D1 L7
LOI 1 more to play and SPL 3.
i think, dunno F/A
Rovers Bohs and Sligo ****ing us over and Us not getting any away points.
What are the likely odds for the 3 Scottish clubs to crash out next week and for Shamrock Rovers to march on?! Hearts clearly are gone. It'll take Celtic to lose away, Rangers probably to draw at home and Rovers possibly to draw 2-2.
I think the one of the Glasgow clubs will go through, and that will be it from the four sides. I'd love to be wrong though!
Celtic cant win a Euro match in the "theatre of football" that is Parkhead :o
Ca Bhuil tiochfaidharmani ?? :D
Look at our record there in the last decade, one bad night is not gonna have me crying like a baby. Take away the inverted commas, it is just that :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bullit
Bit of a silly comparison when you compare the teams Celtic and Rangers meet to the general dirge LOI teams play in qualifiers and it's Rangers with one win in twenty games, yes 26(!) game that makes us all look bad - it's great though;):cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjaC
Last night's results confirm that Scottish football has never been in such utterly dire straits.
I agree, very poor night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
That said, to keep it in context if Ireland, a country with the same population roughly as Scotland, had two teams in a European final in a decade we'd be singing about it and how great little plucky Irish teams are. People expect too much from Scottish football and a lot of that is the English running it down and comparing themselves to it when they're a country with 50 million people which allows for vastly bigger crowds, TV money and young players to choose from.
Rangers have played Swedish and Slovenian opposition this year. This year Bohs played Slovenians and LOI sides have knocked out Swedish sides 4 times in the last 6 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by TiocfaidhArmani
Nobody is saying that Celtic/Rangers aren’t better than LOI sides BTW.
In points earned;
In 2008/09 Ireland ranked 24th, Scotland 29th
In 2009/10 Scotland 25th, Ireland 36th
In 2010/11 Scotland 21st, Ireland 40th
In 2011/12 (so far) Ireland 37th, Scotland 42nd
Bottom line is we’re all ****e (oh and I think both old firm teams will qualify)
Rangers will go through, I wish they wouldn't but they will. 2-1 sets them up nicely with the away goal. Celtic and Rangers generally play in the league format so the quality of teams is much better. The LOI have never even had a team to qualify for the group stages of anything. This year has only started so yeah, but generally they play teams who have made the group stages. Last year Rangers had Man United, Valencia and PSV etc. They're both garbage but the LOI is beyond awful in European terms. Not one team has made the group stages of even the Europa. Even Aberdeen did a few years back and drew 2-2 with Bayern Munich and two teams in European finals in the last decade is not bad and no country with a population of 5 million or below had achieved the same.
Yeah it's garbage, but a bit of context is needed imo.
The context is results. Nothing else matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by TiocfaidhArmani
Bit different when you're playing Man United and Valencia, but fire away. Two European finals in the last eight years for a nation with five million people is also some result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
actually, thats not true. Cork City played in an intertoto group stage in 1997 - playing Standard Liege, FC Koln, Maccabi Petah Tikva (Israel) and FC Aarau (Swiss)Quote:
Originally Posted by TiocfaidhArmani
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_UEFA_Intertoto_Cup.
Lost to Koln 2-0 and drew the remaining games 0-0. Finished 4th of the 5 teams.
The Inter-toto cup. The cup where some clubs got invites you didn't actually earn a place. Comedy gold:D
Whats the population matter when it comes to clubs? Celtic get 50k at a game and in that European final had 2 lads from Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by TiocfaidhArmani
Anyone else confused by chuckie's use of 'we' and 'us' in this thread?
Also, the 'usually in the group stages' - playing teams like man utd - is more of an excuse for rangers' poor recent record, than explanation of the current general malaise.
At the minute they're not playing in the group stages they're playing at the same stage as a loi team - surely a fair comparison - and they're faring about as well.
Just out of interest how many different scottish teams have qualified for the group stages of anything?
I also noticed his claim no loi side ever reached the group stages of anything, presumably admitting no irish team had ever reached those lofty height would make his head explode.
It has everything to do with it. A country with a population of five million does not have a audience to attract large TV deals that England, Italy, Spain, Germany, France etc can use to fund the large amounts they spend on players. A league in a country of five million people will not get large crowds that the above get so therefore less funds than the larger countries. I can't believe I've had to explain that out. It's obvious why a five million population would hold a league back and some teams in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Celtic are a different case to any club on the planet from a small country in that they get a fantastic support at home (51k last night against Sion, not many in the world would get that) and they also have a huge worldwide support for a club in such a small country, which has seen them rise above the crap. Celtic had an annual turnover of £60 million in 2003, hence we had the funds to bring in decent foreign talent.
I really don't understand why you are here unless you are on a wind up - you are constantly belittling the LOI.