Thanks for the info.Quote:
Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
That has to do with the large number of Irish Catholics who played for Everton in the forties, fifties and early sixties...
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Thanks for the info.Quote:
Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
That has to do with the large number of Irish Catholics who played for Everton in the forties, fifties and early sixties...
No problem.
Hit the nail right on the head there mate!Quote:
Originally posted by BanagherOK!
btw I see you never mentioned any players from the North but I assume you dont class them as Irishmen :D
If we take an interest in Ireland, its history and its present political situation, we are misty - eyed guinness suppers dreaming of Sean Thornton and Squire Danaher having yet another scrap about Mary Kate's dowery. If we are into Bob Marley, Bishop's Finger and Eatenders, then it proves we're just not REALLY Irish.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by tiktok
my only reservation is that the Ireland that ex-pats (generally american ones to be fair) and Celtic fans cling to bears little resemblance to the ireland of today, and hopefully less to the ireland of tomorrow.
An Irishman who recently had death threats made against him by loyalists and is forced out of the NI international team because he is from the north of Ireland and plays for the "Catholic" club Celtic slipped your mind huh?,,,,perhaps in your part of the world these things have no deep political meaning.Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
I didn't mention Norn Irish players purely because Anton Rogan slipped my mind, as I'm sure he would slip most people's minds. Hld my hands up about Neil Lennon. Perhaps in Banagher and Laaaaandaaaaaaaan these things have deep political significance.
So a plastic and a fan of a British team want to discuss how Irish I am? Interesting, if slightly hilarious.
keep taking the laughing gas
Moved to general football..... More about scouse football than anything (and I'm not having that in a forum I'm moderating ;) )....
Now now Conor, this is descending into playground slanging and I'm not sure that's going to achieve anything apart from setting board users squarely against each other. Especially when a common cause has brought us here together in the first place. Or do you want to start the Civil War all over again? Bloody Kerry rabblerousers... ;) (FWIW, we didn't stand that day. It was a matter of some unease among the supporters that a minute's silence was held at all. But I digress.)Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
Hey, Biffo's back. Did you all stand for the Queen Mum at Celtic. Did it make you feel all Irish and proud? How could us non-Celtic fans possibly be as Irish as you? From the heart of that republican bastion...Offaly :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
And, for another thing, I don't particularly appreciate the use of the term "plastic" in the pejorative sense. See below.
Liam, ditch the victim mentality. As I keep stressing hereabouts, to be a "plastic" is not to be inferior or second class. As the song says, there are "forty shades of green". I know myself to be Irish, whatever anyone else says, and I would urge you to see it the same way. Diversity is strength. Revel in it. I know I do.Quote:
Originally posted by liam88
I'm not into this whole 'Plastic Paddy' label so it's nice to see most of you respecting me for who I am I could have just as easily told you I live in Cork and you would have accepted me so don't think of me as any less Irish because I live in England-it's where you're loyalties lie and mine are firmly in Ireland.
Might be hard for some of you to treat me as Irish and I fully repect that because living all your life in Ireland you may easily view me as less Irish than you but PLEASE don't write any of us off as 'Plastic'.
Banagher, you sound like a fud. Some impression of Celtic fans you're giving with an approach like that. It rather reminds me of George W Bush's "if you're not for us, you're against us". Which is crap of the first order. Get used to it - there are some Irish people who do not like Celtic. Entirely their prerogative, and to call their background/allegiances into question as a result is childish. End of story.Quote:
Originally posted by BanagherOK
Not at all Connor you just sound like a Hun,
:D PP
What British team is that? Sounds like from one of your posts on the equally mundane 'when is an irish man an irish man' thread that it is you who likes watching British football. To remind you this was the one where in contrast to your loathing of Celtic fans, you took time out to criticise my aversion to England supporters, the poor misjudged dears.Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
So a plastic and a fan of a British team want to discuss how Irish I am? Interesting, if slightly hilarious.
The last league game I went to where I supported any English side was Arsenal against Man U in the autumn of 1981, when I was 15. It was the game where Frank Stapleton got a load of abuse, some of it anti-Irish, from the home support. I began to think English football was mierda then, and still do.
Connor tell me, if being born in Ireland was the only prerequisite for being a true Irishman, then how come Ireland (let's keep it to the 26 counties here) have spawned such great 'Irishmen' as Edward Carson, Henry Wilson, the Duke of Wellington and not forgetting that great Kerryman, Lord Kitchener.?
Its not about having a different point of view its about your HUN point of view you stupid feckerQuote:
Originally posted by Conor74
All points taken, PP. Guess I overreacted to some gob****e calling me a "hun" because I don't share his football views.
.
Excellent pointQuote:
Originally posted by lopez
Connor tell me, if being born in Ireland was the only prerequisite for being a true Irishman, then how come Ireland (let's keep it to the 26 counties here) have spawned such great 'Irishmen' as Edward Carson, Henry Wilson, the Duke of Wellington and not forgetting that great Kerryman, Lord Kitchener.?
Like I said before, this kind of ****e is embarrassing. The man disagrees with you, as is his prerogative. Calling him a 'hun' does little for the reputation of Celtic fans as a whole. Disagree by all means, but choose your comebacks more carefully. Time for a little growing up.Quote:
Originally posted by BanagherOK!
Its not about having a different point of view its about your HUN point of view you stupid fecker
For the benefit of anyone reading one of my earlier posts (in which I tried to defend our friend here), I'd like to point out for the record that my auld fella comes from just over the Galway side of Banagher bridge... :rolleyes: ;)
:D PP
well said ConorQuote:
Originally posted by Conor74
You're making a point about an argument I've never made. How come Ireland spawned these people? Without being too vulgar, I would have thought it was because they popped out of their mother's womb in this country, and that's precisely how Ireland spawned them. Why they were put here is a question that could keep you, I and a host of theologians and philosophers on here for days.
BTW if Biffo Banagher was backing me up I'd start questioning my own judgement. His logic is that if he repeats the insult and puts it in capitals, he's made a great point. That might constitute wit amongst Offaly's Celtic FC hordes, but I suspect that "Keeping Up Appearances" and "Bull Island" would keep that lot amused. It's exactly why the rest of the country calls them Biffos to begin with.
I have no real difficulty with where people were born. It's when one person calls me a "hun" for not loving Celtic, and you pat his head, that I start objecting. Noone has the right to claim they are more Irish than me, and I certainly won't tolerate the "hun" jibes.
I speak some Irish, have been born and lived in Ireland all my life, consider people living in Northern Ireland as Irish, support an Irish league club as well as a Premiership club [Man City], listen to Irish traditional music
Yet I don't support Celtic nor do I support Rangers - both are fine as teams but are ruined by their significant percentage of sectarian and bigoted supporters - and you Banagher are one of these.
You my BIFFO friend probably considered those people who came out and cheered St Patricks Athletic [an Irish club, made up of predominately Irish players, who play in Ireland] against your beloved Celtic [a foreign club despite what you say] - as huns
I hold my hand up and say I support a Premiership club - who make no bones about the fact that they are English - but then again I don't have a problem with most England or English people.
And I'll be cheering on Man Utd tomorrow night against Rangers -and if they were playing Celtic I'd do the same. There's only two teams I support the red scum against and both are from Glasgow, - one group of fans think they're English, the other Irish.
cop onto yourself for f u c k s sake and stop insulting people with your bull**** arguments
And that is your answer? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
You're making a point about an argument I've never made. How come Ireland spawned these people? Without being too vulgar, I would have thought it was because they popped out of their mother's womb in this country, and that's precisely how Ireland spawned them. Why they were put here is a question that could keep you, I and a host of theologians and philosophers on here for days.
An argument you never made? Start questioning anyone's Irishness because they were born abroad, calling them plastics, and you have an argument with me. The reason that these four chaps were born in Ireland but clearly threw their lot in with the country's imperial occupier is that they were of the occupier's ethnicity. Pretty simple! Not one Irish name. All Anglican. Indeed look at their biographies and time and again the word 'ascendancy' crops up. The point is that being born in Ireland, even in republican Kerry, means **** all, just as being born in Britain did not mean that us 'plastics' are British. If anyone is looking for the automatic right to be Irish merely on account of an Irish birthplace, they can look elsewhere for it as far as I'm concerned.
Regarding Celtic, I'm not one of the club's greatest fans, but it is not because it lacks Irish roots, and I have no problem with the description of it as an 'Irish' club. Founded by the Irish, for the Irish and 115 years later, supported mostly by people of Irish descent. Oh yes, a Scottish club definitely: No room for discussion on that point!
As I said before, you just can't win with some people, even when it comes to showing just a little bit of respect to a dead lady, even - if I may speak ill of the dead - one that spent most of her life like the matriarchal head of some dysfunctional sink estate family, but being paid well for the pleasure. Stand in silence and show a bit of respect and Celtic fans are Brits. Sit down, boo and generally show oneself up in an ignorant manner, and once again they are trying to be 'more Irish than the Irish themselves.'
I could say the same about you. Instead of wasting time on this site, sit down and read the history of your country...especially the bit about EMIGRATION (am I allowed to say that here?)Quote:
Originally posted by nlgbbbblth
cop onto yourself for f u c k s sake and stop insulting people with your bull**** arguments
Evening Senor Lope. I see ye're having a pop at the Methodists above. Er, carry on ;)
Perhaps you should tell the other readers about our recent conversation. During which you suggested that NI fans (as exemplified by footie's oppo, http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk ), show something of an obsession with side issues like identity? Seems they're not alone...
I think the popular football club Glasgow Celtic will beat Anderlecht and Lyon to at least second phase in their group. They were well impressive against the French.
I'm from Duncairn Gardens, a bucolic verdant retreat on the pleasant slopes of Belfast's Cave Hill, not that it's an issue like.
well said. If anyone wants to know what being Irish means than get yourself along to an Ireland away game (rather than watch it in the pub). You'll meet lads from all over the place and for 99.999999999% of them accent will be irreleavant.
All will have their own little part of the Irish story to tell.
The Luck of the Irish
John Lennon & Yoko Ono
If you had the luck of the Irish
You'd be sorry and wish you were dead
You should have the luck of the Irish
And you'd wish you was English instead!
A thousand years of torture and hunger
Drove the people away from their land
A land full of beauty and wonder
Was raped by the British brigands! Goddamn! Goddamn!
If you could keep voices like flowers
There'd be shamrock all over the world
If you could drink dreams like Irish streams
Then the world would be high as the mountain of morn
In the 'Pool they told us the story
How the English divided the land
Of the pain, the death and the glory
And the poets of auld Eireland
If we could make chains with the morning dew
The world would be like Galway Bay
Let's walk over rainbows like leprechauns
The world would be one big Blarney stone
Why the hell are the English there anyway?
As they kill with God on their side
Blame it all on the kids and the IRA
As the b a s t a r d s commit genocide! Aye! Aye! Genocide!
If you had the luck of the Irish
You'd be sorry and wish you was dead
You should have the luck of the Irish
And you'd wish you was English instead!
Yes you'd wish you was English instead!
DG, long time no hear! Was wondering if you had deserted us. Not having a pop at John Wesley's (or his Blue and White army), especially not in the 300th anniversary of his birth - at least not intentionally - just that we can't bring religion into every football club where the Irish have congregated. Always thought you were a Mormon according to DAV's description of your drinking habits. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Evening Senor Lope. I see ye're having a pop at the Methodists above. Er, carry on ;)
By the way, I've been meaning to ask you this - and I think this is appropriate considering the topic of conversation (even if we have got sidetracked) - but do you get many 'plastics' following YWC? I mean we get 'plastics' that are qualified to follow YWC; there were English accents in kilts going to Glasgow in February; I've known some English accented Taffs; and of course you don't need to mention the Italians, Turks and the Spanish.
Desperately seeking to swerve away from: 'Celtic are/aren't an Irish club: Discuss.' (We've had 2000 pages already!!) :D
Brilliant.Quote:
Originally posted by London Irish
If anyone wants to know what being Irish means than get yourself along to an Ireland away game (rather than watch it in the pub). You'll meet lads from all over the place and for 99.999999999% of them accent will be irreleavant.
All will have their own little part of the Irish story to tell.
This thread should end on this.
I love this argument that keeps getting put forward as a reason for it to be acceptable to support English teams but not Celtic!Quote:
Originally posted by nlgbbbblth
well said Conor
I speak some Irish, have been born and lived in Ireland all my life, consider people living in Northern Ireland as Irish, support an Irish league club as well as a Premiership club [Man City], listen to Irish traditional music
Yet I don't support Celtic nor do I support Rangers - both are fine as teams but are ruined by their significant percentage of sectarian and bigoted supporters - and you Banagher are one of these.
You my BIFFO friend probably considered those people who came out and cheered St Patricks Athletic [an Irish club, made up of predominately Irish players, who play in Ireland] against your beloved Celtic [a foreign club despite what you say] - as huns
I hold my hand up and say I support a Premiership club - who make no bones about the fact that they are English - but then again I don't have a problem with most England or English people.
And I'll be cheering on Man Utd tomorrow night against Rangers -and if they were playing Celtic I'd do the same. There's only two teams I support the red scum against and both are from Glasgow, - one group of fans think they're English, the other Irish.
cop onto yourself for f u c k s sake and stop insulting people with your bull**** arguments
It has to be the most idiotic Iv ever come across!
Name me one English team that has the same proportion of ethnic minorities, (black and asian) who attend matches as live in areas sorrounding the grounds which usually are in inner city areas where ethnic minorities make up a significant proportion of the population?
If you can not name me one, and Im fairly confident you wont be able to, will not among the bigger clubs which are generally from larger urban areas, then please give me your reasons why you think this is the case?
methinks Ive hit a raw nerve here with Connor the Hun,,,its not because you dont love Celtic its because you hate them and thats the differenceQuote:
Originally posted by Conor74
I have no real difficulty with where people were born. It's when one person calls me a "hun" for not loving Celtic, and you pat his head, that I start objecting. Noone has the right to claim they are more Irish than me, and I certainly won't tolerate the "hun" jibes.
You my BIFFO friend probably considered those people who came out and cheered St Patricks Athletic [an Irish club, made up of predominately Irish players, who play in Ireland] against your beloved Celtic [a foreign club despite what you say] - as hunsQuote:
Originally posted by nlgbbbblth
well said Conor
I hold my hand up and say I support a Premiership club - who make no bones about the fact that they are English - but then again I don't have a problem with most England or English people.
And I'll be cheering on Man Utd tomorrow night against Rangers -and if they were playing Celtic I'd do the same. There's only two teams I support the red scum against and both are from Glasgow, - one group of fans think they're English, the other Irish.
cop onto yourself for f u c k s sake and stop insulting people with your bull**** arguments [/B][/QUOTE]
if Celtic play an Irish club in a friendly or competitive match your saying that I or any other Celtic fan would think of them as huns????????????? get real ffs,,,if you hate any football club you expect to get it in the neck from those fans,,,I couldnt give a toss if you liked Man City or any other club but start hating my "beloved" club and your gonna get it big time,,,,and as for your foreign comment Im sure there are a few who would think your a foreigner,,hence your love of english football (not me btw :p )
telling me to grow up ???,,ok hows this for a careful comeback,,Plastic by name Plastic by nature your not my friend (thank feck) and over the Galway side of the Banagher bridge is where the tinkers live.Quote:
Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
Like I said before, this kind of ****e is embarrassing. The man disagrees with you, as is his prerogative. Calling him a 'hun' does little for the reputation of Celtic fans as a whole. Disagree by all means, but choose your comebacks more carefully. Time for a little growing up.
For the benefit of anyone reading one of my earlier posts (in which I tried to defend our friend here), I'd like to point out for the record that my auld fella comes from just over the Galway side of Banagher bridge... :rolleyes: ;)
:D PP
Very good... did you write that one all by yourself? Anyway, you're up a wee bit late for a school night. Mammy will be cross when she sees you at breakfast! :pQuote:
Originally posted by BanagherOK!
telling me to grow up ???,,ok hows this for a careful comeback,,Plastic by name Plastic by nature your not my friend (thank feck) and over the Galway side of the Banagher bridge is where the tinkers live.
:D PP
Being up late is more to do with Celtic playing ****e In Belgium than any wishful thinking on your part :(Quote:
Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
Very good... did you write that one all by yourself? Anyway, you're up a wee bit late for a school night. Mammy will be cross when she sees you at breakfast! :p
:D PP
Tell me about it. The worst display I've seen by Celtic under MON. And that includes the 5-1 defeat at Greyskull when he first took over. Sloppy finishing, an absent midfield (with the possible exception of Sutton) and once Jackie Mac went off, Joos left us well exposed down the left hand side.Quote:
Originally posted by BanagherOK!
Being up late is more to do with Celtic playing ****e In Belgium than any wishful thinking on your part :(
Not happy either. But I digress.
:( PP
Surely a "hun", would totally back up your arguement about Celtic, as opposed to anyone with any intelligence who would be able to quite definatively say that Celtic play in Glasgow, which is in Scotland, which is in Great Britain....Quote:
Originally posted by BanagherOK!
Its not about having a different point of view its about your HUN point of view you stupid fecker
Anyway - fook both of the sectarian w@nkers....
Not really. When we played Germany in Dortmund a few years ago, rumour had it all the squaddies from Hannover and Gladach would turn up, but they didn't. Because of the poor run our support has a much larger proprtion of 'diehards' than, say, Wales at the moment. We took 900 fans to Spain, 500 to Greece, 100-200 to far Eastern Europe in this competition. I have to say your continued travelling support is amazing :)Quote:
Originally posted by lopez
By the way, I've been meaning to ask you this - and I think this is appropriate considering the topic of conversation (even if we have got sidetracked) - but do you get many 'plastics' following YWC? I mean we get 'plastics' that are qualified to follow YWC; there were English accents in kilts going to Glasgow in February; I've known some English accented Taffs; and of course you don't need to mention the Italians, Turks and the Spanish.
You're on a bit of a shoogly peg there, Macy... some of us follow Celtic as we actually like the football. In fact, the vast majority of us feel that way. I'm sure - no, I'm certain - it's just the same for most Rangers fans.Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
Anyway - fook both of the sectarian w@nkers....
Anyway, I'll get my coat... ;)
:D PP
Originally from Lionel Hutz
Also werent Liverpool called "Niggerpool" in reference to their attitude to black players?
First black player was Howard Gayle. Niggerpool was a term coined by Everton fans before the first Merseyside derby in which John Barnes played.
Everton's Dixie Deans(30's) and Mike Trebilcock(60's) were both of mixed race. I think Liverpool were one of the last of the top clubs in England to open it's doors to black players.
I think Liverpool were one of the last top teams to open its doors to black players.
Not sure, off the top of my head (and i am open for correction on this one) Man Utd's first black player was after Howard Gayle (i think Remi Moses). Tottenham Hotspur also (Garth Crooks). The only team i think who consistently played black players were WBA.
I think all the teams were pretty awful until the late 70's and early 80's. Makes u wonder how many great players we never saw because of their colour.
Although academic in approach, the following link from the Sir Norman Chester Centre for Football Research provides an excellent summary of the impact of Black players in British football. Well worth a read.
:D PP
http://www.le.ac.uk/footballresearch...heets/fs4.html
Although academic in approach, the following link from the Sir Norman Chester Centre for Football Research provides an excellent summary of the impact of Black players in British football. Well worth a read.
Thanks Paddy.
Conan the hun must be feeling ganged up on so he starts to suck up some arse...anyways,,strange thing is you keep saying Biffo,,is it me or all people from Offaly you have a problem with?Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
Damn, Lopez and Biffo had something beautiful going on, until Biffo went and spoiled it all by saying something stupid like...
Could there be a certain frostiness creeping into this cyber friendship? I suspect there is no point dealing with Biffo, by using the very term his ally hates, I get the impression that everything that has been posted here has gone ever so slightly over his head.
Lopez, on the other hand, clearly you are intelligent, and appreciative of Irish history and culture. If the "plastic" reference offended you, I apologise. As noted above, I reacted to Biffo's reference to "hun" and I saw you as applauding his points. I have a good friend who spent 30 years in Coventry before returning and I call him "plastic" and he laughs at it, but like anything I suppose it depends on context. If an English friend called me "Mick" in a lighthearted manner, I wouldn't care. If an English stranger called me "Mick" I would get very annoyed.
the real annoying thing is that we got turned over by a team who played with the same passion that we do at Parkhead. Agathe might as well been playing for the opposition,,btw their black player Anun? fell all over the place but when he stayed on his feet he was superb :mad:Quote:
Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
Tell me about it. The worst display I've seen by Celtic under MON. And that includes the 5-1 defeat at Greyskull when he first took over. Sloppy finishing, an absent midfield (with the possible exception of Sutton) and once Jackie Mac went off, Joos left us well exposed down the left hand side.
Not happy either. But I digress.
:( PP
Quite amused by the use of the word Hun. Its slightly ironic that it started its existence as an insult for Irish Catholics in Scotland during WW1.
Conor, stop winding up poor old BanagherOK! (which is a contradiction in terms if ever i heard one) or he may have to use other insults - anyway he is obviously not used to non-Celtic supporters down the pub.:D
It's not the term plastic from a stranger that annoys, its the suggestion that being born in a certain place overrides everything else.Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
If an English friend called me "Mick" in a lighthearted manner, I wouldn't care. If an English stranger called me "Mick" I would get very annoyed.
Re: Celtic, you could make a number of accusations about Celtic that would be true - the club's collusion with Rangers despite the latter's discrimination against RCs and as I read in one of Britain's classier rags this morning, as shown by Alex Ferguson, those who have RCs as spouses; the religious bigotry of some of its supporters; the argument that if Celtic are 'an Irish club' why do some people put it on par with the national team (can't imagine even Rovers fans doing that). But this constant sniping of their identity suggests to me more a hostility to the 'diaspora'.
A few people may shed some light on this, but a few years back the Celtic board were trying hard to whitewash its Irish roots and one of the things was to promote the black and teddy boy sock green away shirt in more matches where the hoops would have played. Fans were up in arms about what they saw as the de-hibernification of the club.
Rangers fans will invariably argue that Celtic's Irishness is illegitimate while discriminating (no longer with players since 1989) on the sole grounds of their Irishness. Spend any time on the Follow Follow forum of Rangers, or even the site Duncan Gardner suggested above to see how these 'Plastics' (yes its that word again) from Scotland and, I kid you not, Northern Ireland should stop pretending they're Irish.Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
Surely a "hun", would totally back up your arguement
...and of course me, PP, Junior etc were born in England which is in Britain, so we must be British. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
Celtic, as opposed to anyone with any intelligence who would be able to quite definatively say that Celtic play in Glasgow, which is in Scotland, which is in Great Britain....
The answer to your question of course is none. I went to watch Leicester against Atletico Madrid some years back and I didn't see one Asian in the ground...in ****ing Leicester?:confused:Quote:
Originally posted by Lionel Hutz
Name me one English team that has the same proportion of ethnic minorities, (black and asian) who attend matches as live in areas sorrounding the grounds which usually are in inner city areas where ethnic minorities make up a significant proportion of the population?
While youse are in and around Celtic and Liverpool,can anyone enlighten me on why Celtic sing 'You'll never walk alone'?Some people have said that the Celts sung it first but this can't be true can it?
Lopez- the suggestion (in today's London Guardian) that Ferguson was forced out of Ibrox due to his RC wife is a bit tenuous. Were it true- and were the subtext, ie that Alex should have been a regular internationalist, shared by anyone other than him and his mates- then surely the club would have transferred him to someone in England, where his brother played. Not Falkirk.
At the risk of turning this into a exlusive dialogue, you're slightly misrepresenting OWC. Rangers are discussed there rather less than Celtic here- largely, I think, because we're so bad that we don't tend to attract floating fans to Windsor. If/ when we start winning, they'll be back of course :)
...and of course me, PP, Junior etc were born in England which is in Britain, so we must be British.
Horse and Stable argument again!!!:D
Though the difference is that u had no choice in where u were born. In Celtics case they built the stable and decided to live it. Probably Celtic are zebras, they look like a horse, they were born in a stable but there is just something different about them!:D
Surely Celtic are a British based-club with an Irish heritage and culture?