all Waterford players now free agents

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Originally Posted by passerrby

dont think its happening everywhere in fact i think only a small handful of clubs are overspending imo

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That would very much depend on how you define overspending. Personally I think almost every club in the league is overspending. We're paying players mental money- and the vast, vast majority of them would be in the league anyway if the wages were at half their current level. Currently the league has taken a big leap towards professionalism (and even part time clubs are hit by increased wage levels) in the hope that it will attract enough punters to make it sustainable. There is little evidence so far that this will happen. There is going to be quite a few clubs paying for this gamble, and soon we'll see the next 'silver bullet' solution for domestic football rolled out to save us.

I feel that this is agood arguement against Summer Soccer was in Galway last night and the size of the crowd was very disappointing.Summer soccer might suit the so called "Big Clubs" who's finace's don't rely on gate receipts.They have big investors "at the moment".In the present climate as regards the slow down in the economy will the proposed devolpment of Dalymount go ahead.Are all these business men going to be willing to pump money into Drogheda Pats etc.At the moment these are the clubs all for the summer soccer season while the rest of us suffer. It is simple to see for the smaller clubs that attendance's are down.People are away on holidays, day tripps and even on more rural level some might laugh farmers etc are working late into the evenings. Theres the battle with the Gaa (not that Sligo has anything to worry about but Galway does have this battle). The big cheifs would want to realise that 2 or 3 clubs don't make a league,they need the rest of us to help make this league to survive.Also these silly fines for flares, pitch encroachments by 1/2 fans need to be looked at! Ya if there is mass encroachments thats understandable. Also disaplinary matters need to be looked at as regards fines.In last nights match the referree handed out cards as if they were going out of fashion some were not warranted on both sides.Now the clubs will be fined over poor reffereeing decisions.

In my opinion the FAI want all the clubs as close to Dublin to get bigger and stronger and the rest can go to hell ! Summer soccer is only good for the men in suits so that thier nice Italian suits don't get ruined. Summer soccer has killed the athmosphere at games and the crowds have dissapaired. In Longford i honestly don't know how we are surviving !! Lucky to get 300 at games now. Sorry to hear about Waterford but get ready to hear more like it before the end of the season.

It's always dark and dreary in Longford no matter what time of year it is. Plus what atmosphere has been killed at your games?? Anyway, sad to hear about Waterford. I hope they survive obviously but I'm glad they'll be out of the title fight.

To be honest the only time we ever got half decent crowds and had a decent atmosphere regularly was our first season in the Premier Division. That was a winter season but to be honest I don't think the numbers would have kept up anyway even if we had stayed on with winter football, it was more the novelty factor that was coming into play that year in my opinion. Now, all things considered we'd probably see a slight increase in crowds if it was winter football due to there being less competition but I think it's unrealistic to blame it all for all our ills. Back on topic, a pity to hear of any club in trouble but I'm sure it isn't a club endangering situation. If you have to let players go the most it'll cost you is the chance of promotion but by the sounds of things you wouldnt have the money to compete at Premier Division level anyhow. Based on what I've seen this year, if you look hard enough you can find a good few amateurs that aren't an awful lot worse than some of the professionals in the division.

Much like what Limerick did what Waterford are going to have to do is look for local talent. First Division clubs can't afford to pay expenses of players coming from different parts of the country. Whats worrying is that a club like Galway rolled the dice in the Premier and it's worked out so poorly for them. Can't see any of the current crop of First Division clubs being able to improve on their efforts.

This brings back why I think LoI clubs need to be promoted as the pinnacle of Irish football, the place where the cream of the local junior players go. Promoting that to junior clubs who are largely resentful of the LoI is the next task the FAI need to undertake to keep this ship from sinking

True about the Junior clubs. Even in Longford a lot of them seem to see themselves as rivals of LTFC somehow. One particular function I happened to be at, something to do with the Town came up and some people were booing. Now, fair enough it was only a few and there were a few others there that do go to games, or used to, but I just don't understand the thinking process.

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Originally Posted by Longfordian

True about the Junior clubs. Even in Longford a lot of them seem to see themselves as rivals of LTFC somehow. One particular function I happened to be at, something to do with the Town came up and some people were booing. Now, fair enough it was only a few and there were a few others there that do go to games, or used to, but I just don't understand the thinking process.

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There could be a book written on the bad blood between Limerick FC and the Limerick Juniors to be honest. Cobh seem to be in the process of being torn apart by their juniors as well, it's pathetic that this fracture ever occured, and that it still exists to be honest

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Originally Posted by Shiba

.Also these silly fines for flares, pitch encroachments by 1/2 fans need to be looked at! Ya if there is mass encroachments thats understandable. Also disaplinary matters need to be looked at as regards fines.In last nights match the referree handed out cards as if they were going out of fashion some were not warranted on both sides.Now the clubs will be fined over poor reffereeing decisions.

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simple solution. give the fines back to the clubs through a sort of fair play league table

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Originally Posted by Rovers Maniac

I really don't think the summer football season has worked it actually been a disaster in terms of bringing people to watch games as i have never seen so many clubs in trouble at once. I can see clubs going out of business if this keeps up.

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We get that whinge every year from Sligo fans over "summer football". Winter football clashes with EPL on tv, there's bad weather/games postponed, and crowds remain the same. Benefits of summer football are better weather, better pitches, better performances in Europe, more tv exposure.

Crowds are poor, but they're permanently poor. Even the GAA are playing in increasingly empty grounds. Prices are too high, two clubs charge €25 admission, most clubs (Waterford included) play home games on weeknights depriving home fans who work shifts, and away fans who have to take halfdays from work, from seeing games, and kos are at the tail end of rush hour. LOI football is the only business I know where the business caters for the employees, not the customers demands.

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Originally Posted by Rovers Maniac

Holidaysong are Dundalk not in debt big time? I heard they could not even pay there players at times earlier in the season?

By the way not having a go just a serious question.

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No wage problem's at Dundalk, look up the previous thread its all in there....

Dundalk F.C are in their best financial postion in years. This down to largely increased sponsorship and fundraisers by the DFC Trust with the Patron Scheme. Gerry Matthews our CEO was making up the shortfall of the previous season's and for the first time in a long time were not expected to have a shortfall for him to make up.

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Originally Posted by mypost

We get that whinge every year from Sligo fans over "summer football". Winter football clashes with EPL on tv, there's bad weather/games postponed, and crowds remain the same. Benefits of summer football are better weather, better pitches, better performances in Europe, more tv exposure.

Crowds are poor, but they're permanently poor. Even the GAA are playing in increasingly empty grounds. Prices are too high, two clubs charge €25 admission, most clubs (Waterford included) play home games on weeknights depriving home fans who work shifts, and away fans who have to take halfdays from work, from seeing games, and kos are at the tail end of rush hour. LOI football is the only business I know where the business caters for the employees, not the customers demands.

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Sorry about the whinge "Mr Dublin the Almighty" but we can only comment on what we see is affecting our club.But it does seem funny that its seem like its only the big city clubs that are for the summer soccer season.Ya summer soccer may have its good points but not for all clubs.you pointed bout some things that maybe affecting crowds,timing of games cost of entry "Galway charged €20 the other night.improved pitchs! Maybe!but it is hard to do work on pitchs in the winter months as there is no growth and can be very wet to do work on them ours included only now ours is starting to improve.Is the improvement in europe just a coincidence with summer soccer than as result of it there has bee a huge improvement by investors in some clubs in the last while than ever before.(Drogheda,Bohs ,Pats, Cork ,Derry). Again I point out for us in a more rural settings and low population base Summer Holidays,Weddings,Gaa and as you pointed out work related issue.we have big following coming from the country area's in leitrim sligo mayo whom have there busiest season during the summer and really have an affected on our attendance.To me its really not a whinge but simple facts that are affecting "Our Club".Again sorry if you think its a whinge but its fact! Its not about just single clubs its about the survival of the league which will be hard done in its present Guise. The league will a sad place without the likes of "Rovers,Harps,Waterford,Galway,Shams,Shelbourn e"> Don't forget ye are on the brink as well!

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Originally Posted by mypost

most clubs (Waterford included) play home games on weeknights depriving home fans who work shifts, and away fans who have to take halfdays from work, from seeing games, and kos are at the tail end of rush hour. LOI football is the only business I know where the business caters for the employees, not the customers demands.

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on the button..I have been making this point to the mons for a long time

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Originally Posted by Shiba

Again I point out for us in a more rural settings and low population base Summer Holidays,Weddings,Gaa and as you pointed out work related issue.we have big following coming from the country area's in leitrim sligo mayo whom have there busiest season during the summer and really have an affected on our attendance.To me its really not a whinge but simple facts that are affecting "Our Club".Again sorry if you think its a whinge but its fact! Its not about just single clubs its about the survival of the league which will be hard done in its present Guise. The league will a sad place without the likes of "Rovers,Harps,Waterford,Galway,Shams,Shelbourn e"> Don't forget ye are on the brink as well!

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The league in Northern Ireland plays winter football. Not exactly packing them in, are they?? :confused:

Just because summer football affects one club, doesn't mean the whole structure should be overhauled to suit them. Instead, Sligo should market their club in the local, and wider community. Go into shopping centres, train/bus stations in Sligo, Ballina, Collooney etc, and create awareness of what you have. You have weekend football in place, you have a decent ground, lower your prices. Who's going to pay €15 in to watch UCD and Bray?? Come up with ways and means of making your club more attractive for people to watch you. Come up with gimmicks and incentives for people to come back. It's not like you have to compete with 4 other clubs in the area, as in Dublin. The potential is there, all you have to do is exploit it. But it's much easier to blame the system, than tackle the problem. :o

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Originally Posted by mypost

The league in Northern Ireland plays winter football. Not exactly packing them in, are they?? :confused:

Just because summer football affects one club, doesn't mean the whole structure should be overhauled to suit them. Instead, Sligo should market their club in the local, and wider community. Go into shopping centres, train/bus stations in Sligo, Ballina, Collooney etc, and create awareness of what you have. You have weekend football in place, you have a decent ground, lower your prices. Who's going to pay €15 in to watch UCD and Bray?? Come up with ways and means of making your club more attractive for people to watch you. Come up with gimmicks and incentives for people to come back. It's not like you have to compete with 4 other clubs in the area, as in Dublin. The potential is there, all you have to do is exploit it. But it's much easier to blame the system, than tackle the problem. :o

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Its not just one club Harps galway waterford are all been hit.They have tried all the gimmicks. 4 clubs in Dublin with a population it has is not a good comparison.Dublin has a huge advantage.Out of curiosity what do Shams Charge? All the angles have been covered as regards promotion advertising etc.We have a good promotions officer in place to tackle this as you say. So I could be wrong as summer football in your eyes but dont see any other reason behind it.(except maybe the armchair critics).

am watching loi games for over 30years and every few years clubs go bananas with crazed ideas of european domination that end up with players, suppliers,managers and fans at their wits end.
its not summer soccer, the 65% rule, the fai. one time skimcgee was manager of gufc and after sending in one of his new signings to sign with a committee member, the player was happy coming out with his new deal and ski sends him back in to get more. here was the manager screwing the supporters for every last drop. it will never change its footie in ireland. its not the civil service

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Originally Posted by Shiba

Its not just one club Harps galway waterford are all been hit.They have tried all the gimmicks.

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What have they tried?? Because whatever they have tried hasn't worked.

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4 clubs in Dublin with a population it has is not a good comparison.Dublin has a huge advantage.

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What advantage?? Here, we have to compete with 4 other clubs for support. Sligo and Waterford have nobody else to compete with.

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Out of curiosity what do Shams Charge? All the angles have been covered as regards promotion advertising etc.We have a good promotions officer in place to tackle this as you say.

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Those who complain about poor crowds, have to look at ways of restructuring their resources. Do you want higher crowds, or higher prices?? You can't have both. In the current economic climate, €15 is harder to come by, and against unfashionable teams, hard to justify. Even more so, for those who charge more, and more so again for those in the FD.

In any business, if punters aren't coming to you, you've got to go to them. How many Waterford FC fans/representatives, mill around Merchants Quay bus station, and the train station on Fridays, selling themselves to thousands of commuters?? Waterford is a beautiful tourist town, why not take advantage of it, go into the town centre, and hand out leaflets of the club's next game, up the road?? Are there adverts in the local press?? Are there posters of their next match around the town?? Would changing games to Saturdays make a difference?? Would reducing ticket prices get more people, and therefore more cash through the turnstiles??

At Bayern Munich in Germany, €15 gets you in to one of the finest arenas in world football, €12 if it's a midweek game. Prices are not set for every seat in the ground, the highest is €60. Yes, the league is well funded, yes Bayern have a lot of money already, yes, Bayern receive tv money, but that's missing the point. If they can charge as little as it costs to watch Sligo play Cobh, or Waterford to play Monaghan, obviously they must be doing something that other clubs aren't. And Bayern have to compete with two other clubs in Munich.

Too many clubs wish to continue with the same failed strategy, and pray that people will come to watch them. It doesn't work, and as a result nothing changes.

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Originally Posted by Shiba

Its not just one club Harps galway waterford are all been hit.They have tried all the gimmicks.

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Our crowds have fallen because we are crap and we tried to charge too much at the start of the season, not because games are played in the Summer. We were one of the better supported clubs last season because we had a more affordable ticket price and were doing a bit better than we are now.
Going back to a winter league wouldn't help attendances IMO it would make attending games less attractive.

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Originally Posted by oldyouth

Not great news alright. Are there locally based fringe players with a bit of hunger to step in?

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Carrick United but there still involved in the FAI Cup, possibly registering problems would occur there likewise if local club players stepped in i would think.

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Originally Posted by mypost

What advantage?? Here, we have to compete with 4 other clubs for support. Sligo and Waterford have nobody else to compete with.

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TBH thats misleading. Dublin has a population of over a a million people for those few clubs, Sligo and Waterford have barely 10% of that between them.