That Spanish Midfield would murder us, and Torres would have a battle with Dunne but over 90 minutes you would have to fancy his chances, don't even think about McShane or O'Brien its just too scaryQuote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
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That Spanish Midfield would murder us, and Torres would have a battle with Dunne but over 90 minutes you would have to fancy his chances, don't even think about McShane or O'Brien its just too scaryQuote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Bah humbug!Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
There is much for us to learn here but one thing I would caution is being too attracted by following trends. There are phases in football. This tournament has been about attacking, fast football especially by teams with good technique. This is not our area of strength so this was a tournament largely dominated by southern rather than northern eurrope. Things will change again and we may need to wait for that.
In fact we are not currently very good at our traditional game (no big striker, not great from set pieces, weak in defence, no midfield enforcer. ) The problem we would have playing in the same way as Holland or Spain is a lack of pace. We dont break fast and I'm not sure we have the players to do it.
I'd suggest we dont try to change too radically. At the next tournament there will be loads of teams playing a poor impression of the Spanish game from this tournament. You may find there is some success for the teams who find a way to counteract this. I'd be especially happy if people took from thisthat you dont need a midfielder capable of winning the ball and not giving it away cheaply.
An element of horses for courses required for the short term.
Free flowing, Globe Trotters attack heavy football may not be the smartest approach in a glamorous away qualifier to Georgia, et all.
Sometimes you've got to box clever.
I agree but it's worth asking if there are lessons to learn that could make us better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Can you point out anywhere I said we need to be as good as Spain? And btw you are totally downplaying a German team that at times in the tournament was playing fast passing attacking football the likes of which no Ireland team has ever played.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
True but Terim managed to put it into practice with players including Colin Kazim Richards, a guy who would not get into the Ireland squad (in fact given his reputation as a Championship jounreyman, I'd suggest David Connolly move to Turkey and renames hhimself as Connolly Connolly)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
I think Trapp could have the team well drilled and everyone will know what is expected of them - its first principles, but even that is an improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
You've got to start somewhere and Organisation, commitment and attitude is a good place to start.
We lack players who are comfortable on the ball (Andy Reid, Duff, McGeady and Keane being the exceptions but how often are those 4 fit at the same time?). Consequently our first instinct is to hit it long but as we lack any physical menace the ball keeps coming back.
Senna was exceptional throughout the whole tournament. He isn't just a spoiler, this guy can go 20 yards and pick a pass all day long without looking flustered. No offence to Carsley but passing sideways and back to Given/Dunne/O'Shea gets us nowhere.
I really don't know where we go from here. I'm excited we have the Trap and know we will be well organised but there is only so much he can do. One of our key men/star players will really need to step up to the plate in the next campaign and carry this team forward. For us to qualify I reckon Keane needs to translate his Spurs form into the green shirt, Duff needs 18 months of injury free football and Dunne needs a buddy at centre back.
Top marks to you brother - this is the best post I've read in a very long time. You obviously have a strong grounding in coaching and an eye for detail because everything you say here is true - particularly the part about playing the ball blindly down the channel like our full-backs do.
You correctly point out also that other teams don't involve themselves in speculative passes like we do and you also note the roles of a ball winner and distributor in midfield - good to see that someone on this board knows what they're talking about, because I was beginning to wonder about some of the posts.
I have my own template for how the game should be played (which is almost identical to yours) and I know I'll be measuring Ireland's performances on the road to WC 2010 by these standards. It's simple really, you don't lose the ball needlessly, defend in numbers and be patient in trying to spring the opposition defence. There are three factors in the making of any player - first touch (ie control), shielding the ball, and changing direction. It's baby simple but some of our players fall down on the basics at times.
Anyway here's looking forward to Georgia and Montenegro in ten weeks time. I hope Trap can transform us into a team to be reckoned with.
I don't know about you, but I like a player who can pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
I agree 100% with that. Austria and Switzerland were there simply because they were the co-hosts and it was obvious neither side would have gotten there if they had to qualify. That's where we are right now too. The current squad is probably the weakest Irish squad in three decades.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
The English league traditionally did not place too much emphasis on skills or technique but in the last five years it has stepped up several notches and become the strongest league in Europe. Platini is correct when he says this is largely down to money but the fact remains the best players in the world currently play in England. Maybe you were referring to the Championship or League 1? But the English Premier League is going through something of a golden period at the moment. If we want our players to play anywhere, then it is there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
That's because they aren't good enough. No other reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Atrocious compared to:Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Poland?
Romania?
Greece?
Sweden?
Not to mention the 2 hosts. There is a temptation to overestimate the novelty.
Everything wrong with the Irish supporter in one sentance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet
:(
Everyone of these teams would beat us. All bar greece play a brand of football that seems beyond us.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
It was a very enjoyable tournament.
THe main lesson is the one i feared most. Because of our reliance on English football and the ways of the English game our technique is so far off some of those other teams.
England can get away with it due to the sheer number of players they have - more often than not the likes of the Rooneys, Gerrards etc can produce abit of brilliance to get a result etc. So they will more often than not qualify for tournaments and do ok -quarter finals / semis etc.
However even though they have some very good individuals these players still lack technique (don't confuse technique and skill).
I believe in the short term we are fuvked. We need to totally transform the way football is coached in this country starting from 7/8 year olds. We need to divorce our game from the English way of thinking and in reality we probably need to retrain a large % of the coaches that coach youth football in this country.
We will reap the benefits in 10 / 15 years time.
So you're saying there is a big conspiracy in England against talented young Irish players? :rolleyes: Football is a business - if those players are good enough and deliver the goods on the pitch, they will get their contracts and they will get their games. If they aren't good enough, and they don't perform then they won't. It really is that simple. Who exactly were you referring to btw?Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Excellent post Stutts.
I genuinely believe S.Ireland, S.Reid and A.Reid individually could play in the Croatian team without making them any worse. It's just how well they'll play together alongside McGeady and Duff.
btw, tets - house is being renovated since March so no internet. Started new job this month. Was in Spain recently. Hectic, non stop life I'm living atm. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennedmc
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet
see post above yours for a sensible post.
you honestly cant see anything ludicrous with on the one hand hoping we have a good international team that can compete in these tournaments and on the other having no system whatsover to nurture our own players? to just throw young lads into a foriegn country in the hope that some of them "make it" and branding them "not good enough" to be footballers if they cant make the first team at some of the top clubs in the world?
that to me sums up everything that is wrong with some football supporters in this country. see the international team as operating in some form of splendid isolation from everything else.
Poland has its Guerreiro.
Portugal has its Deco.
Croatia has its Eduardo.
Turkey has its Aurelio.
And Spain has its Senna.
Ireland needs a Paddy-Brazilian.
Dunne & Given and probably Robbie Keane could even enhance their team.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Bill's point from way back still stands though. We play atrocious football though that doesn't mean we wouldn't beat some of the teams mentioned. We show little composure and we have a fear of receiving & passing the ball properly - the basics that Roy Keane did so well to so little acclaim in some quarters. We play speculative passes up the pitch, all the time and from all positions. One thing I loved about Euro 2008 was watching the ball roll. Sounds simple but actually it's a rarity watching us play. This sounds mad, but only with Darren Potter in midfield have any of our performances in the last few years resembled any form of orthodoxy.
Back to goalkeepers: only 4 impressed me: Casillas, Buffon, Van Der Saar and Boruc. Many were very culpable: Cech, Rustu, the Russian keeper, Ricardo, Coupet and others. The Croat guy was decent from what I recall, not really sure!