Who is Ireland’s next tier one player?

Could be a little premature, but three underage internationals who potentially could make the top are, IMHO, Conor Clifford (Chelsea), Robert Brady (Manu) Shaun Timmons (Birmingham City).

However, we've been down this road many times before and I guess it will become obvious in the next 12-18 months if any of the above trio are more than just potentials.

HUNT, no way. All heart, otherwise very limited.

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Originally Posted by cheifo

Owen Garvan.

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he could definitely be the one with a bit of luck needs a transfer or ipswich to buy and become areal force in championship next year

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Originally Posted by Ruben Sosa

The answer is simply no. We do not have a single World Class player. I can't see where the next one is coming from. The last one was Roy Keane. Since then Duff and Robbie Keane have had moments but over time they haven't managed to earn the World Class Tag. Sorry to be a profit of Doom but we are very much dependent on the team doing well as a unit rather than individual match winners.

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It can be argued that we didn't have any world-class players during the Charlton era either, McGrath being the possible exception (Brady was coming to the end of his career). Keane, between 1998 and 2002, was a different kettle of fish, as he genuinely stood out as a big, big name in a decent team, much like Hagi with Romania, Savicevic with Yugoslavia or Stoichkov with Bulgaria. One or two star names don't guarantee success, as Wales found out even with Giggs and Hughes.

I'd rather see us well-organised, with a good team ethic, commendable all-round ability, and a few gifted mavericks (Duff, McGeady, Keane) rather than have one utterly indispensable player running the show.

I would rather have a team of successful grafters than a team with one marquee player who always fail gloriously.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

I don't know where all these comedians are coming from claiming that the likes of Garvan will be world class, I'd be surprised if Garvan ever even made it to a bottom of the league premiership side let alone top tier.

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Look at his position, and age, Ciaran. He's a 20-year-old defensive midfielder. They don't tend to mature until later on in their careers. If Garvan makes the step up now (and Middlesbrough, Everton and Wigan have been linked), he's got a great chance of developing further. It's subtle things in Garvan's play (positioning, distribution, technique and leadership) that mark him out as a player with potential. Granted, it's only potential at this stage, but why write him off at 20?

At 20, Makelele was playing for Nantes, not doing much. As was Deschamps at that age. Ballack was at Chemnitzer. Zidane was an inconsistent midfielder at Cannes. Hagi was at Spurtul Studenesc. Stoichkov was at CSKA Sofia, who aren't much better than Ipswich. Need I go on?

I'm not comparing Garvan to any of these great footballers (yet :) ) but I'm pointing out the folly of judging footballers harshly, in the embryonic stages of their careers. It also shows the constant unpredictability of a world-class player emerging. Garvan is about to make his international debut, and seems sure to be making a move to a decent Premier League club very soon. It's a step in the right direction. Okay, he may not turn out to be the next Roy Keane, but never write off a 20-year old footballer, just because he's not a fast developer like Fabregas or Messi.

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Originally Posted by Ruben Sosa

Correct. No one man makes a team anyway. Except maybe Diego 86.

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Keane carried the Irish team for years... (let the arguments start again...)

Sorry, I couldn't help starting the row all over again/:)

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Originally Posted by Ruben Sosa

We did ok in Japan Korea without him!! ;)

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But we would not have got there without him.

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Originally Posted by woodie

Keane carried the Irish team for years... (let the arguments start again...)

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From our results between 1998 and 2001 -

With Keane; played 15, won 9, drew 5, lost 1.
Without Keane; played 15, won 5, drew 4, lost 6.

I don't want to bring up S****n, as we all know what happened there, and the rights and wrongs there will never be resolved. But Keane's positive influence on the team was immense when he was in his prime, something to which many senior players openly admitted at the time. His retirement has left a void in the centre of midfield which we have never properly filled.

Keane was an absolute colosass in the middle of the park and I don't think he's been properly replaced at United never mind Ireland!

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Originally Posted by Emmet

Keane was an absolute colosass in the middle of the park and I don't think he's been properly replaced at United never mind Ireland!

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Yeah their fourtunes have taken a total nose-dive in the first full two seasons since he left. :p

Of course they miss what he had to add to the table but I think they have adjusted quite well.

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Originally Posted by Emmet

And - hang on a sec - I've just seen that you're putting Phil Babb in the same bracket as Roy Keane, Liam Brady and John Giles ... :eek::eek:

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Great spot. :)

Players like Keane, Brady, Giles and McGrath dont grow on trees. Even the bigger Nations like England, Spain and Italy struggle to replace stars regularly. When was the last time England had a decent left sided midfielder? Spain, lots of stars - never win a thing!! Marco Matterazzi played a world cup final for Italy FFS Dunne is better than him IMO. Next Irish star must be McGeady I do reckon Garvan will be quality and part of me feels very sorry for Steven Reid who could have been real quality except for a terrible run of injuries. I think I remember him being touted as a replacement for Keane at Utd. some years ago.

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

Look at his position, and age, Ciaran. He's a 20-year-old defensive midfielder. They don't tend to mature until later on in their careers. If Garvan makes the step up now (and Middlesbrough, Everton and Wigan have been linked), he's got a great chance of developing further. It's subtle things in Garvan's play (positioning, distribution, technique and leadership) that mark him out as a player with potential. Granted, it's only potential at this stage, but why write him off at 20?

At 20, Makelele was playing for Nantes, not doing much. As was Deschamps at that age. Ballack was at Chemnitzer. Zidane was an inconsistent midfielder at Cannes. Hagi was at Spurtul Studenesc. Stoichkov was at CSKA Sofia, who aren't much better than Ipswich. Need I go on?

I'm not comparing Garvan to any of these great footballers (yet :) ) but I'm pointing out the folly of judging footballers harshly, in the embryonic stages of their careers. It also shows the constant unpredictability of a world-class player emerging. Garvan is about to make his international debut, and seems sure to be making a move to a decent Premier League club very soon. It's a step in the right direction. Okay, he may not turn out to be the next Roy Keane, but never write off a 20-year old footballer, just because he's not a fast developer like Fabregas or Messi.

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Superb post. I wish everyone that posted on forums was as well resourced and posted as eloquently as you.

Think of all the great/good players that have been relatively anonymous in their formative years. From memory Terry and Beckham did not fully break into the Chelsea and Utd sides until at least 20.

And Darren Fletcher is just biding his time along with John O'Shea too. ;)

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Originally Posted by SilkCut

Players like Keane, Brady, Giles and McGrath dont grow on trees. Even the bigger Nations like England, Spain and Italy struggle to replace stars regularly. When was the last time England had a decent left sided midfielder? Spain, lots of stars - never win a thing!! Marco Matterazzi played a world cup final for Italy FFS Dunne is better than him IMO. Next Irish star must be McGeady I do reckon Garvan will be quality and part of me feels very sorry for Steven Reid who could have been real quality except for a terrible run of injuries. I think I remember him being touted as a replacement for Keane at Utd. some years ago.

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Yeah, but when you are talking about England you are talking about what they HAVEN'T got. They have a handful of tier one players. At the moment we have merely potential.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

the difference is "in the glory days", english football wasn't as competitive as it is now, nor was there a top 4 as such, nor were they doing well in Europe like they are now. SO technically the players mentioned above never played for top clubs of the time i.e. Italian clubs. Therefore trying to compare is silly. A totenham might be as competitive as a team then........

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I don't agree with that, while it's more competitive now that also comes down to the increased professionalim in the game and development of players!.
Also clubs now go further afield in the pursuit of playersl, thus leaving 1000's of potentially gifted english footballers out in the cold as while there are'nt many more scouts employed by clubs there spending less time in the home country.

The next comment says that going by todays standards a few years ago Robbie Keae would have been at Arsenal,United etc.... not a hope the top teams were still full of Internationals

If your theory is right then we should still have as good as a team now then we had back in 1990 and 1994, this is'nt true, look at a team picture from those days and recall there clubs and the majority were playing with the clubs near the top of the table in England. Look at it now when we're struggling in our groups and see where the players are playing now.

Regardless of when they came through the players from the by-gone days would still make it into the top teams in England if not even further afield

The top 4 now are pretty much the same every year and are mostly foreign players who are hosehold names around the globe. It's almost funny looking back at the Blackburn & Leeds teams now, Leed would probably struggle to make it into the top half of the table now with that title winning team.

I really don't think it matters how many players we have in the top 4. It's how many we have playing regularly in the Premiership that counts.

Dean Keily.:ball:

McGeady and Garvan imo.