Whats up with shels fans

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27/03/2008, 2:47 PM
Lamper.sffc

Guys, I might as well have started of the thread with we hate all other clubs:D

First of all can I just say Pineapple stu. Give me a break will you:rolleyes:. Man you are just looking for an argument. Maybe you should actually read what santry Goonshow is saying.
And please stop talking about Fingal as if you know who and what we are. Nobody you know considers themselves Fingallian. Who is that, BOB SUE AND MICK TOO. I live in the area and alot of people know they are fingallians. The club will also further the identity of Fingal. So talk about something with facts please.

The basic point is that Sporting are trying to do it differently. The council have been working on this for the last 3 years or more (originally for existing dublin club). A lot of research has gone into getting this club up and running. They have researched successful clubs abroad to see how they do it and are copying their methods.

If shels and shamrock rovers where doing it right they would not have had all the troubles they have had. Thats just a fact. ( Nothing against them)

I think we can all agree that the clubs and league are not what they should be. (not saying sporting are the only ones trying to put it right.)

We can fill Croke park for internationals. God knows how many go abroad to watch english clubs (Not blaming them either) God I have to be so careful.
A lot of other countries follow the english league, but they can still run a pretty successful domestic league compared to ours. Norway for example.

We are just a club trying to get on our feet. A lot of comments are very negative about the club. I dont understand this. You should be embracing new clubs. The more competitive the league the better.

If we fail, then its no skin of your nose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

Since you can't count (30-40 Limerick fans ffs) I don't believe your estimates on the crowd

Its not an estimate. They announced the crowd on the night. There was a small pocket of limerick fans on the other stand.
It is you that is guessing my friend. "350-400 people with 70-80 of them being Limerick fans" I dont think so:).
27/03/2008, 3:13 PM
Block G Raptor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamper.sffc

And please stop talking about Fingal as if you know who and what we are. Nobody you know considers themselves Fingallian. Who is that, BOB SUE AND MICK TOO. I live in the area and alot of people know they are fingallians. The club will also further the identity of Fingal. So talk about something with facts please.

I live in what a few councillors have dubbed fingal and I can assure you that I would never ever answer the question "where are you from" with "Fingal" nor do I feel any affiliation with SF. the only time Fingal is on my radar is whem Im putting a Fingal County Council Bin Tag on my wheelie Bin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamper.sffc

The basic point is that Sporting are trying to do it differently.

what is it that SF are doing differently than all us other imbeciles ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamper.sffc

Norway for example.

take Rosenborg out of the Norwegian league and the quality and attendances are inferior to LOI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamper.sffc

If we fail, then its no skin of your nose.

yes it is The last thing the league needs is another makey uppy club with no fan base going bust in an embarrassing Dublin cityesque fashion
27/03/2008, 3:54 PM
passerrby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamper.sffc

.

The basic point is that Sporting are trying to do it differently. The council have been working on this for the last 3 years or more (originally for existing dublin club). A lot of research has gone into getting this club up and running. They have researched successful clubs abroad to see how they do it and are copying their methods.
NO THEY ARE NOT
If shels and shamrock rovers where doing it right they would not have had all the troubles they have had. Thats just a fact. ( Nothing against them)
YOU WOULD LOVE TO HAVE ROVERS PROBLEMSI think we can all agree that the clubs and league are not what they should be. (not saying sporting are the only ones trying to put it right.)
YA BUT I DONT AGREE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY CLUB WITH THE SOLUTION
We can fill Croke park for internationals. God knows how many go abroad to watch english clubs (Not blaming them either) God I have to be so careful.
A lot of other countries follow the english league, but they can still run a pretty successful domestic league compared to ours. Norway for example.
NORWAY MY ARSE

We are just a club trying to get on our feet. A lot of comments are very negative about the club. I dont understand this. You should be embracing new clubs. The more competitive the league the better.
WE DO AND WE WISH SF AL THE BEST FOR THE FUTURE BUT GET OFF THE SOAPBOX

If we fail, then its no skin of your nose.

yes it is becuase anything that happens in the league reflexs on us all
27/03/2008, 3:56 PM
jebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamper.sffc

Its not an estimate. They announced the crowd on the night. There was a small pocket of limerick fans on the other stand.
It is you that is guessing my friend. "350-400 people with 70-80 of them being Limerick fans" I dont think so:).

Wow I hadn't realised Fingal gave such detailed crowd ests as '475 in total, the breakdown being: 35 Limerick fans, 40 drunk teenagers on the hill, 200 free children, 5 dogs, 20 free councilers, 100 paying fans, 10 cats, 25 pensioners and 40 volunteers'

Anyway a blind chimp could see that there was more than 40 fans in our section, and since a rough head count gave 80+ I'll go with our ests
27/03/2008, 4:06 PM
Lamper.sffc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

I live in what a few councillors have dubbed fingal and I can assure you that I would never ever answer the question "where are you from" with "Fingal" nor do I feel any affiliation with SF. the only time Fingal is on my radar is whem Im putting a Fingal County Council Bin Tag on my wheelie Bin

I Didnt say people answered with. 'we are from Fingal'. Just meant they are aware they are in fingal. As for you feeling no affiliation with SF. Well thats your decision. Which is fine by me. but not all in Fingal feel that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

what is it that SF are doing differently than all us other imbeciles ?

I Didnt call anybody Imbeciles. Im not going back into everything that has just been said in this thread and others. You can read them for yourself and that will answer your question. By the way different doesnt always mean for the best or better than others. You took it to mean this, not me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

take Rosenborg out of the Norwegian league and the quality and attendances are inferior to LOI

1. You cant take Rosenborg out of the league just so it suits your point. (its also the club we are basing are methods on).
2. Can you back your statement up with facts
3. Average league numbers where over 9,000 in 2006 ( wikipedia )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

yes it is The last thing the league needs is another makey uppy club with no fan base going bust in an embarrassing Dublin cityesque fashion

1. All clubs are made up at some stage. Whether its 100 years ago or 6 months.
2. We have a fan base. Not large but its there.
3. We have finances in place for the next 5 years.
4. How did Dublin city going bust embarrass you. Unless you were a fan. And if that is the case then if SF goes bust it wont matter, because like you said "nor do I feel any affiliation with SF" " So happy days for you

Bye bye now

Quote:

Originally Posted by passerrby

yes it is becuase anything that happens in the league reflexs on us all

Man you didnt make one counter point of worth ( Norway my arse) good point

This is a discussion site and this is the Sportin fingal thread. So whats with the soap box comment. Am i not allowed have an opinion. Im not preaching, im just giving my opinion.

Didnt i just say we where not the ones with the only solution

How does sporting failing reflect on you.

And yes the council did go abroad to check on other clubs. Its a fact. Just saying they didnt doesnt make it so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

Wow I hadn't realised Fingal gave such detailed crowd ests as '475 in total, the breakdown being: 35 Limerick fans, 40 drunk teenagers on the hill, 200 free children, 5 dogs, 20 free councilers, 100 paying fans, 10 cats, 25 pensioners and 40 volunteers'

Anyway a blind chimp could see that there was more than 40 fans in our section, and since a rough head count gave 80+ I'll go with our ests

What ever makes you happy
27/03/2008, 4:32 PM
Block G Raptor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamper.sffc

1. You cant take Rosenborg out of the league just so it suits your point. (its also the club we are basing are methods on).
2. Can you back your statement up with facts
3. Average league numbers where over 9,000 in 2006 ( wikipedia )

You stated that the league should aspire to the Norwegian League and I merely pointed out that there is one Big Club in the league and all the others compare un-favorably to eL clubs

1. All clubs are made up at some stage. Whether its 100 years ago or 6 months.
2. We have a fan base. Not large but its there.
Not enough and it is my opinion that it will never grow beyond the few hundred that Dublin City used to attract
3. We have finances in place for the next 5 years.
what after that. Look whats happened to Gretna this week
4. How did Dublin city going bust embarrass you.
DCFC's failed experiment was an embarrassment to the entire league and gave the naysayers more ammunition to belittle the rest of us. At least Kilkenny City did the sensible thing and dropped down to re-group

......
27/03/2008, 4:38 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raheny Red

He's nothing more than a wum.

I know. But he's funny! Let me play with him a while till I get bored. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamper.sffc

Maybe you should actually read what santry Goonshow is saying.

I did. He misquoted me and generally talked nonsense which I refuted. Maybe you should read what he and I said?

Quote:

And please stop talking about Fingal as if you know who and what we are. Nobody you know considers themselves Fingallian. Who is that, BOB SUE AND MICK TOO. I live in the area and alot of people know they are fingallians. The club will also further the identity of Fingal. So talk about something with facts please.

Oooh - good facts! I'm swayed.

Quote:

A lot of research has gone into getting this club up and running. They have researched successful clubs abroad to see how they do it and are copying their methods.

Did you get Genesis in?

Quote:

You should be embracing new clubs. The more competitive the league the better.

Wexford are very welcome. They're sustainable. You're an implosion waiting to happen.

Quote:

but not all in Fingal feel that way.

I live in County Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown. I can guarantee you no-one I know would have any affiliation with a club called Rathdown FC. I can't imagine how it would be any different in Fingal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

take Rosenborg out of the Norwegian league and the quality and attendances are inferior to LOI

No, no, a thousand times no. Three different clubs have won the league there in the last three years, and Rosenborg ain't one of them. The lowest supported top flight side in Norway still pulls twice our top side.

Mod hat on - lamper, there's a multi-quote button beside the reply button. Please use it rather than posting two and three times in succession. Thanks.
27/03/2008, 4:49 PM
passerrby

look lamper everybody wishes SF but you must understand your solutions are not sure are a doulble edge sword.
(a) to survive in the EL you must look beyond the community for sponsorship
(b) most parents while happy to drop the kids of at 40miles per hour for training will not
give a rats arse about your EL endevours
)c) you can develope kids for 10 years when they want to go somewhere (GAA or other soccer clubs) they will go without so much as a by or leave.
I am not saying dont try these things im am saying dont expect fantastic results.
27/03/2008, 6:51 PM
Santry_Goonshow

Quote:

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

Since when did owning stadia become a barometer for the development of youth soccer?

I never said it was, why don't you read my post? Those are two entirely separate points.

[/quote]You're original point was that Shamrock Rovers had no community links. For someone who is making themselves out to be an expert on this topic your comments on this thread, and threads, suggest otherwise.[/quote]

Yes, I stand over my opinion. Numerous moves [Ringsend - Milltown - Tolka - RDS - Morton - Tolka] involved a the fan base getting screwed around. I know former Rovers fans who now just follow Celtic after the farce of their recent history. There was 3 generations of them.

[/quote] When Rovers made the decision to build their new stadium in Tallaght they moved every aspect of the club the vicinity (schoolboy, LSL). They have also created several links with the community, including footballing scholarships in conjunction with ITT. [/quote]

That's all very well but its not an academy structure because SRFC doesn't have any plans like this. "Links with.." is just more of the peripheral rubbish the LOI has suffered over the years. What you want to hear is that SRFC are "investing" in an academy.

[/quote]To dismiss this and label SRFC as having no community links just because you are unaware of them is ignorance. Yet again you show your ignorance for the topic being discussed.[/quote]

I'm sorry, you inability to give me any contradictory facts show that you are the ignorant one. I thought you wanted to discuss football here but its just an attack on me where you are twisting what I said and deliberately not listening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfx-

77/56A/50/65B/77A/54A/201/202/65/49/75

Take your pick.:)

And then maybe the 203, or the 16a. Why not try the old 47a to Tirbradden. You've been everywhere else.

Oh and just because someone doesn't have 200000 posts they must know nothing and be completely new to the game. Ooooh the smugness

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

[EDIT: Don't quote entire posts. Edit out the stuff that's not relevant. And use multi-post, like you were told. --dahamsta]

Its a shame Lamper that this one is what you call "Civics challenged". If he checks out the 1993 Local Government Act (Dublin) Section 9 he will see that while not in common usage the county of Dublin was abolished and that Fingal is a well defined area with a boundary. Oh well, UCD musn't be teaching them like the old days. And what if UCDs plans point them towards Rathdown FC, that would make it a club for the area not just for the students.

The other things Stu that is disappointing is your tone. Toying with me are you. What a tosser.

Also its a shame you have that you don't want to look at the points being made on their own merits. Prefer the smugness of your well established friendships with the orthodoxy.
27/03/2008, 7:34 PM
DmanDmythDledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santry_Goonshow

Yes, I stand over my opinion. Numerous moves [Ringsend - Milltown - Tolka - RDS - Morton - Tolka] involved a the fan base getting screwed around. I know former Rovers fans who now just follow Celtic after the farce of their recent history. There was 3 generations of them.

While I accept that there are fans of Rovers from the Milltown era that no longer support them, saying that they have no community links is incorrect, even with some of their previous homes. There are various SRFC supporters' clubs over south Dublin and these have maintained links with areas such as Ringsend and Milltown, primarily because that is where they are from themselves. Also, there are many 'closet' Rovers fans who will start attending games in Tallaght because the club now has its own home and don't have to travel to the northside to see them play at 'home'.

Even if the above was untrue, they have numerous links with the Tallaght community. This is not something that is an opinion, it is a fact.

Quote:

That's all very well but its not an academy structure because SRFC doesn't have any plans like this. "Links with.." is just more of the peripheral rubbish the LOI has suffered over the years. What you want to hear is that SRFC are "investing" in an academy.

Since when was having an academy the only way to have links with the community? Links with the community are exactly what they say they are. You strangely seem to disagree...

Quote:

I'm sorry, you inability to give me any contradictory facts show that you are the ignorant one. I thought you wanted to discuss football here but its just an attack on me where you are twisting what I said and deliberately not listening.

:D After reading the first 2/3 of your response I thought you may not have been a WUM but the above shows that my initial instinct was correct.
27/03/2008, 9:16 PM
Lamper.sffc

Guys. Iv been miss quoted and miss understood. But i guess thats what you want. If you read what i have said, the only attack i have made is on negativity.

I was told by others not to come on this site because there was a certain few who patrol this site like they own it. I now realise that what they meant.

Im looking for constructive conversation. not comments on how i know how to work this site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Mod hat on - lamper, there's a multi-quote button beside the reply button. Please use it rather than posting two and three times in succession. Thanks.

Im replying to 2 or 3 different comments from 2 or 3 different people. I like to seperate them.

It would be nice for some people to actually come back with an argument other than it wont work because, i think you wont work, You are dublin city, you wont get the crowds.

I like to know how you know this for sure

Tell me why. Give me a reason, or something. Give me facts

But you dont,

I never said SF would work, i just said it was a different approach.

pineapple stu, you truly are a moron. I know you cant help it, but hay we all have our faults

Quote:

Originally Posted by passerrby

look lamper everybody wishes SF but you must understand your solutions are not sure are a doulble edge sword.
(a) to survive in the EL you must look beyond the community for sponsorship
(b) most parents while happy to drop the kids of at 40miles per hour for training will not
give a rats arse about your EL endevours
)c) you can develope kids for 10 years when they want to go somewhere (GAA or other soccer clubs) they will go without so much as a by or leave.
I am not saying dont try these things im am saying dont expect fantastic results.

I never said it would work. I just said we are copying tried and trusted methods from clubs abroad. Thats all.

Lets see what happens is my attitude.

There is no need to knock it. like so many on here are. (not saying you are)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

You stated that the league should aspire to the Norwegian League and I merely pointed out that there is one Big Club in the league and all the others compare un-favorably to eL clubs
......

You actually said

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

take Rosenborg out of the Norwegian league and the quality and attendances are inferior to LOI

A little bit different dont you think.
Where are you getting these facts from:confused:
27/03/2008, 10:30 PM
Santry_Goonshow

Come on Lamper, courage of your convictions - say what you mean don't be bashed up by Muppetish words and misplaced "non hearing" pedanticism.

SFFC and Wex Youths are doing this LOI thing a different way, a way that works elsewhere in the continent for e.g. that improves all the football in the hinterland in which it exists and builds on that as a resource which attracts fans, marketing and community identification. The Monaghan lad is right, we need to prove ourselves and we should not be unaware of that. However, because we are 1 month old I refuse to accept that we have inferior opinions or that we are the playthings of tossers on the board.
27/03/2008, 10:56 PM
DmanDmythDledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

Not enough and it is my opinion that it will never grow beyond the few hundred that Dublin City used to attract

I don't think their crowds will be as bad as Dublin City's. Not 100% sure on this, but if I remember correctly Dublin City's marketing strategy was to have Dublin in the club's name, have the home jersey blue and sell them in Carrolls. I don't think any real marketing/promotion was done by them. Also, when DC got promoted they had to move to Dalymount, which would have hit any increase in crowds promotion would have (however big or small is another matter).

Sporting Fingal seem to be unlike Dublin City. They have appointed a marketing executive, who I think is full time, and do not have over-ambitious goals of reaching the Champions League in five years time. They aim to have an average attendence of 800 this season, and I think that is achievable, although they will probably fall short. One thing they are doing, which Dublin City did not, was locate themselves in a densely populated area, where no EL club is located. The negative side, however, is that their stadium is a few years away still.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Wexford are very welcome. They're sustainable. You're an implosion waiting to happen.

What does sustainable mean in this context- breaking even or surviving?
27/03/2008, 11:22 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

What does sustainable mean in this context- breaking even or surviving?

Both; they go hand in hand really.

You noted SFFC aimed to have average crowds of 800 or so. Their first paying crowd was 450. That's not going to sustain the kind of squad they have.
27/03/2008, 11:51 PM
DmanDmythDledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Both; they go hand in hand really.

You noted SFFC aimed to have average crowds of 800 or so. Their first paying crowd was 450. That's not going to sustain the kind of squad they have.

Don't know if you're aware but the property developer Gannon is pumping moeny into the club, don't know how much. Would it not be a similar situation to Pats- making a loss but being able to survive?

Gate receipts would make up only a small portion of club's income. Presumably Sporting Fingal will generate other revenue streams. I don't think the 800 figure was only mentioned as a target, not a target they need to survive.
28/03/2008, 8:11 AM
Lamper.sffc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santry_Goonshow

Come on Lamper, courage of your convictions - say what you mean don't be bashed up by Muppetish words and misplaced "non hearing" pedanticism.

SFFC and Wex Youths are doing this LOI thing a different way, a way that works elsewhere in the continent for e.g. that improves all the football in the hinterland in which it exists and builds on that as a resource which attracts fans, marketing and community identification. The Monaghan lad is right, we need to prove ourselves and we should not be unaware of that. However, because we are 1 month old I refuse to accept that we have inferior opinions or that we are the playthings of tossers on the board.

Oh im keeping the courage of my convictions.

Just realising why some people warned me off this website.

Wont shut me up though.:cool:
28/03/2008, 9:00 AM
Block G Raptor

Quote:

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

Gate receipts would make up only a small portion of club's income. Presumably Sporting Fingal will generate other revenue streams. I don't think the 800 figure was only mentioned as a target, not a target they need to survive.

I don't think gate receipts will make up a small percentage of the clubs revenue quite the opposite infact. every club in the eL relies heavily on gate receipts to survive hence the ones like Dublin city and Kilkenny that don't get crowds don't survive. Also all this talk of community fan base etc. FFs Dublin City played in an empty morton stadium and if the locals out there didn't feel an affinity with a club called Dublin city they certainly won't feel an affinity to a club called Fingal

I really hope I'm wrong but I don't think SF will survive long enough to see a stadium in Swords
28/03/2008, 11:04 AM
Lamper.sffc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

I don't think gate receipts will make up a small percentage of the clubs revenue quite the opposite infact. every club in the eL relies heavily on gate receipts to survive hence the ones like Dublin city and Kilkenny that don't get crowds don't survive. Also all this talk of community fan base etc. FFs Dublin City played in an empty morton stadium and if the locals out there didn't feel an affinity with a club called Dublin city they certainly won't feel an affinity to a club called Fingal

I really hope I'm wrong but I don't think SF will survive long enough to see a stadium in Swords

Financed for the next 5 years. Long enough to get us to swords.

What you are forgetting is that a lot of the support will come from areas like swords, Donabate, Malahide, Skerries, Balbrigan, Rush, Lusk to name but a few. Its not just the outskirts of the city they are aiming for.

Some of the areas i mentioned are big footballing areas with large populations. These areas have never had a club that represents them in the eircom league. Thats one of the reasons dublin city differs from SF.

Dublin city was getting support from the outskirts of the city and in.
( I know there will be exceptions)

While SF is hoping for support from the outskirts of the city and back towards Balbrigan.

Dublin city never represented these towns I mentioned.
SF will in time.
28/03/2008, 11:17 AM
Block G Raptor

I doubt very much that you'll be in swords in 5 years
Do you really envisage the hoards traveling from Swords, Donabate, Ballbriggan, wherever to that kip in Santry for the next 5 years. ffs Bohs cant get people from Cabra to go to games nor Shells people from drumcondra etc. what makes you think that they'll travel to Santry for SF did you hear a mystical voice telling you "If you build it they will come"
Also if SF becomes a Money pit in the near future that 5 year funding may just disappear over night. as I said before I really want to be wrong about all this (and I was one of the guillable who thought that dublin city might just be the gimmick to get barstoolers interested) I just think there are far too many similarities between DCFC and SF to be hopefull of a different outcome

Also you say that Dublin City didn't represent the area's in fingal? Fair enough, maybe they didn't, but they did purport to represent a city of 1.5 million people and still they couldn't get 100 to a game.

serious question: what makes you think that Sporting Fingal will get a substantial support base from the 250,000 people of Ballbriggan Swords Donabate etc
28/03/2008, 12:08 PM
Lamper.sffc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

I doubt very much that you'll be in swords in 5 years.

Based on what knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

Do you really envisage the hoards traveling from Swords, Donabate, Ballbriggan.

Never said hoards. Some fans already are, me included. It only take 20 mins for me to get to santry less if you are from swords.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

did you hear a mystical voice telling you " if you build it they will come

What:confused: Good point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

and I was one of the guillable who thought that dublin city might just be the gimmick to get barstoolers interested

That just it. It was a gimmick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

too many similarities between DCFC and SF to be hopefull of a different outcome

And they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

Also you say that Dublin City didn't represent the area's in fingal? Fair enough, maybe they didn't, but they did purport to represent a city of 1.5 million people and still they couldn't get 100 to a game.

How many other dublin clubs are in the city.Dublin city spread themselves too thin.
Its not the name they call themselves. Its the area they represent
Sporting are getting more than a hundred ( early days i know)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

serious question: what makes you think that Sporting Fingal will get a substantial support base from the 250,000 people of Ballbriggan Swords Donabate etc

Do you read what i say

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamper.sffc

Some of the areas i mentioned are big footballing areas with large populations. These areas have never had a club that represents them in the eircom league.

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