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Bad parenting in my opinion. I was fortunate to have great parents who devoted their time to raising both me and my brother in a good decent environment. A lot of these kids you just have to look at their folks to see where they get it from. There are as always exceptions to this but not many in my experiences over the years.
That and the company kids keep. Good kids can change completely by the people they hang around with.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieB
And who allows them to keep said company? The rents? I don't entertain any arguments by parents of what can I do this and what can I do that. Its all about will power.Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
Bad parenting, poor education, lack of youth facilities,etc,etc. All these are the causes, what's the cure? Sure isn't hitting them a slap or locking them up for a few years as some have suggested. That typifies the short term outlook people have on issues like this. It takes decades to eradicate social problems like this. There's no quick fix
i agree with bits and disagree with others.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeixlipRed
I disagree with hitting a child. It sends out the wrong vibes to the kid. I, like many of you I'm sure, was hit as a child. Its only now having spoken to others (peers) that I realise that I was beaten, as opposed to hit/disciplined. As a result there is an anger/rage in me that is dangerous and takes a lot of effort to control. I'm determined not to foster something like that in my young lad, or any other kids for that matter.
I don't agree that there is a lack of facilities, if anything there are more now than there ever was. Too many people have excuses for the social ills today. No facilites? Makes me laugh. there is a football Gaa Rugby Pool Gym Youth centre and fishing clubs in the town I live in. Parents can't afford them. Of these parents who can't afford it in my cul-de-sac, they drive big cars and are absolute dipsos of the highest order. There is more money generally in society today than when I was growing up. The foreign holiday was a luxury that 1 family on my road had, as was the label clothes. How many of the schooligans wear Strider runners I wonder? How many of the schooligans parents are down the boozer blissfully unaware of what johnny is doing on a Fri night?
Its down to the parents 100%
And how many gangs of schooligans are there in your area??
There's no eL club in my area but there is a sizeable amount of scum to be fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeixlipRed
The church has no monopoly on morality.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
Parents have the ultimate responsibility. Too easy to blame every one else. In the Drimnagh murder the parents should be tried as accessories or similar. If your dog attacked someone you would be prosecuted for failing to keep under control. I am not equating kids to dogs but you get the logic...
You would in some cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Two things I'd like to see done is for parents to be held responsible for minor's actions, and the age in which a kid can be prosecuted lowered. If say a 14 year old throws a bottle and injuries another kid at a football match, then I'd want the child charged and his parents given a warning on his behaviour. If the parent does little to curb their child's ways then they start getting hit with fines and eventually a short stay in prison, if the parent is seen as trying to help turn their child into a decent human being then they get time to do thisQuote:
Originally Posted by pete
The church.....morality. Don't see them in the same sentence myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Parents responsibility, end of!
These kind of scumbags are nothing like dogs, I'd feel bad about kicking a dog
Yeah, they are more like cats. I mean, who doesn't take pleasure from landing a size 10 in one of them?
We're going a little off topic here for a football forum but I hate hearing that. When you come from the area I did you got up to scumbag things like fighting, robbing, drinking on streets, etc. Pretty much everyone did and I'm not exaggerating. There was plenty of decent parents but they'd have to lock up their kids to stop them doing what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieB
My mother was the person anyone in the neighbourhood went for advice. She had cooking and knitting classes in my daughters school. They sent my sisters all to private school and myself and my brother to a decent school in Ballsbridge. She went back to college not so long ago and was the top student in the class at 50 (she now has a great job). I was still a scumbag as a teenager and arrested about 15 times. She'd cry her eyes out when I was arrested while my father would be the typical old fashioned guy who wouldn't stand for it. In fact I would have been expelled from school if it wasn't for my parents. I've no problem saying that now because I've learnt that most of these teenage scumbags grow up to be genuinely decent people.
To suggest that society is crumbling because we don't go to church anymore is quite possibly one of the most stupid things I've ever heard, I haven't been in a church (outside of funerals/weddings/christenings etc) in more than 13 years and I've never nearly blinded anyone with a bottle.
I agree with EB insofar as I come from an area that wouldn't be the best regarded & I went to school that has a reputation thats nothing short of notorious (more people in my yeard went on to prison for drug/gang things than went on to 3rd level education) the school & area was quite a broad mix of normal hard working successful folk & scum of the earth toerags & I can tell you that not all of the guys that went to jail were from the bad side of the area - each one was a victim of their own circumstances - some had bad parents, some didn't some may of went to church , some didn't (I'm pretty sure this didn't contribute though) fact is its impossible to apply blanket reasoning as to why people turn out the way they do - some of those schooligans may be from disadvantaged area's, some may have neglectful parents & some may be trainee sociopaths, they're all the products of their own individual circumstances rather than their being one big super reason for why these kids behave like savages (i.e. they don't go to confession anymore - how stupid a concept is that?)
Fantastic way to misquote someone. I never said that society is crumbling because we as a society don't go to church. You'll find we as a society still go to church in quite large numbers, but that the fear that the church had on people and on families in general isn't there anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangball
congratulations on seeing one thing and making a stupid assumption.
As for you Eirebhoy well done on turning it round. You wouldn't guess.
To be honest isn't the drop off in the Church's fear factor a direct result of the drop of in numbers? So Wangball was pretty much saying the same thing. Anyway losing some of the fear the church instilled is not a bad thing, and the fact that the Catholic Church went with fear us rhetoric instead of love one another is probably the reason for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Anyone on the topic of the youth of today, I don't think you can blame a child initially going wrong on any one thing, I'm sure for every child that turned to violence coming from an abusive family there is a child that is sickened by violence who comes from an equally abusive family. Personally I came from a middle ground in Limerick City, pretty much literally, as there was three roads running parallel to each other, one is notorious now for gangs, one has nice Georgian houses and there's mine, stuck in the middle getting a mixture of all kinds. Now despite coming from a family with strong support from both my parents I could easily have turned one way into crime rather than the other, there's plenty of kids I used to play football with who were very similiar to me who ended up in jail, others have gone on to be quite successful in what they do, and in the end I think it comes down to personal choice, whether crime/violence is attractive to you or not. Parents don't really come into that equation until the decision is made.
Like I said earlier on though, when it becomes obvious that a teenager is going off the rails a bit, the parents should be informed and asked to do something about it. That's where the idea of parents who aren't even trying being given warnings by the Gardai comes into.
In defence of parents: How do you discipline a kid that literally doesn't give a **** about authority? A kid that just doesn't give a **** anymore. Where PEER pressure is stronger than PARENTAL pressure.
In argument against parents: I think alot of them leave the attempts at discipline until its too late.
They dont give a **** about authority because they were never shown any. I am heading into the hardest years of my life now with a 13yr old son and a 10 yr old hot on his heels but I am fairly confident that because, from the moment they were born, I have been the authority and they have to respect that.
I have only to give my kids a certain look or say their name in a certain manner and they will behave. I have never hit my kids and dont believe in it but they have been shown clear boundaries since they were tiny and now understand if they step outside those limits they will not like the consequences.
Respect is taught from tiny baby up and if parents cant be bothered to do that then they shouldnt have kids. My sons know that if either of them ever got into trouble they will lose all priveleges. PS3, football camps, sky tv, internet access etc are all priveleges not rights and they know it.
As for living in a bad area with kids, I loved my kids enough to give up the best job I ever had, the best social life I ever had and move back to Monaghan to bring them up where I know they are safer and less likely to fall in with a "bad" crowd. My eldest goes to non-alcoholic discos but only if I drive him there and collect him.
I am scared stiff of the next 8 years but I am totally committed to bringing us all through them and any parent that isnt should be ashamed of themselves.