Under Trapattoni are we better than 2002?

There are some very talented individuals in this current crop. Keane has two excellent seasons with spurs, albeit playing with berbatov. Kevin Doyle, again had an unbelievalble year last year. Struggled a bit this year. Duff undoubtable has the talent to be classed as World Class. He does need to stay injury free and possibly get out of the Toon. A fit Andy Reid if he can be accomodated has the class of a Molby.

Whats lacking is a capable manager, Staunton certainly wasnt this. Trap (provding he is the next manager) ticks most if not all the boxes required to be a top. top class manager who will demand and recieve the respect of players and fans alike.

This is a vital period for us, if we dont qualify for South Africa it could be a very long time before we qualify for a international tournament again.

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Originally Posted by Morbo

why did Ireland refuse to accept Dunne's offer to contact the FAI on his behalf?

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I wasn't aware of that! still I would hope if he's called up to the the squad he'll turn up. I've been through a similar experience to him this year (in that my partner had a mis-carriage and missed quite a bit of time off work) so I know how difficult it is to deal with something like that, I really think he'll come back and play a BIG role under Gio

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Originally Posted by Morbo

If he really was motivated by competing for his country at another WC then why didn't he wait until after the new manager had been announced before retiring? How would he know the next manager would be incompetent or play him out of position? his decision to retire before the new manager was announced to me showed he didn't care who the next manager was

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Carr retired before Staunton was appointed and then came back so there is a precedent. If Finnan was so resolute on retiring, why did he leave it until 2 months after the qualifying campaign was over? The points you are making are just speculation; perhaps you are correct in your assumption but you may not be.

I think our players have enough quality to be able to succeed if harnessed correctly but we have to compare apples with apples.

With all due respect to all the managers involved from McCarthys tenure to the present day, we needed two things. One was a game plan and secondly and probably more importantly, is a squad of players who understand and buy into that game plan and understand their role is in its success. Both Kerr and Staunton had one or both of these for only a very short space in time(The opening game in Stans case). Sadly since McCarthys departure, we havent had a manger who was able to combine both of those with these players.

If Trapattoni can get this back in the squad, then we can compare but not until then.

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Originally Posted by jmurphyc

Carr retired before Staunton was appointed and then came back so there is a precedent. If Finnan was so resolute on retiring, why did he leave it until 2 months after the qualifying campaign was over? The points you are making are just speculation; perhaps you are correct in your assumption but you may not be.

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The fact that he waited 2 months doesn't really mean anything since there were no games to be played, in Carrs case I felt his retirement was more down to the toll all his injuries have taken on him and thought that he could extend his club career by retiring, I don't think Finnan is as likely to reconsider, he just didn't seem committed to me in the last campaign, his injury where he missed Irelands crucial double header was minor and was illustrated by the fact that he played a full 90 minutes for Liverpool less than 3 days later. I hope I'm wrong and Finnan has a change of heart but I wouldn't get my hopes up just because Carr came out of retirement once, I'd be willing to give anyone 10/1 odds on him returning, any takers?

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Originally Posted by Morbo

The fact that he waited 2 months doesn't really mean anything since there were no games to be played, in Carrs case I felt his retirement was more down to the toll all his injuries have taken on him and thought that he could extend his club career by retiring, I don't think Finnan is as likely to reconsider, he just didn't seem committed to me in the last campaign, his injury where he missed Irelands crucial double header was minor and was illustrated by the fact that he played a full 90 minutes for Liverpool less than 3 days later.

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The whole Slovakia and Czech Republic injury thing was IMO blown out of proportion. Nobody knows how badly injured he was, and the fact that he played for Liverpool the next week doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't badly injured the week before. If he wasn't bothered about playing those two games then why did he turn up for international duty the month before for a friendl? He might not come back but I personally believe the reason he retired was because he saw the shambles of the last set up for what it was and figured that because the FAI were taking so long to make an announcement that things wouldn't necessarily improve. I know that this is also speculating, but it's just my personal take on it. With Trapattoni looking likely to get the reins if my assumption is correct then I think there is a decent chance he will come back.

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Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

Agree the Defence is a little suspect. But think McGeedy,, Hunt, Ireland, A Reid, S Reid
Doyle, Are Deffo stronger than, Holland, Kinsella, Kilbane, McAteer, Harte, Morrison were in the run up to the 2002 qualifiers, whilst I've no doubt that some if not all of the 2002 squad hit great form at the WC they certainly did not look like world beaters in 2000 at the start of the campaign. Roy Keane aside I think Gio will inherit a vastly superior squad than the one McCarthy did


plus I've also got a feeling that Steve Finnan will come back

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true he will inherit a better squad than mick did - but mick inherited an ageing squad from charlton and turned it into the 2002 team and squad

i think the 2002 team and squad was a better - agree with lionelhutz's points

GIO has inherited a lot of potential but only time will tell on whether they can reach the levels of 2002

At the moment the currect team is nowhere near the level of 2002. But with the manager we had in charge for the last campaign we're actually a lot better off than we could be. There's far more potential in this team than the 2002 one indivually but collectively there's still a lot of work to be done.

The people who say that we've got a poor team and 3rd is the best that we'll manage; there's no doubt that even with Trapattoni in charge it's going to be a very difficult group to get out of but so was the 2006 group and we almost did that with IMO and inferior squad and an inferior manager (no disrespect to Kerr but Trap is another level). If the last qualification campaign was down to having poor players then why did we struggle to beat San Marino. Irrespective of who our playing staff were that game should have been wrapped up long before the 94th minute.

The midfield and attack are undoubtedly better IMO. Quinn couldn't last 90 minutes by the time the last World Cup came around and now we have an abundance of strikers, unlike back then. The creativity in this midfield is far superior and if we can get the players to work as hard and be as well organised as in 2002, then it will easily be better than the 2002 crop. As was said previously the defence is the only worry. If we get Andy O'Brien back then he's in a similar mould to most of our central defenders in the last World Cup and in the new Richard Dunne we have someone who is far, far superior to any defenders in that squad.

The main cause for concern for Trapattoni is the left back berth. There are no natural left backs who are anywhere near ready for international level for us. If O'Halloran can start getting games then maybe this can be solved. If not, then that is a major worry for us until someone breaks through.

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The whole Slovakia and Czech Republic injury thing was IMO blown out of proportion. Nobody knows how badly injured he was, and the fact that he played for Liverpool the next week doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't badly injured the week before. If he wasn't bothered about playing those two games then why did he turn up for international duty the month before for a friendl? He might not come back but I personally believe the reason he retired was because he saw the shambles of the last set up for what it was and figured that because the FAI were taking so long to make an announcement that things wouldn't necessarily improve. I know that this is also speculating, but it's just my personal take on it. With Trapattoni looking likely to get the reins if my assumption is correct then I think there is a decent chance he will come back.

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No, he had decided on retiring a long time back before the end of the last campaign, he was just biding the announcement for the right time - thats not to say he wont come back though, I dont have a clue about that.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

No, he had decided on retiring a long time back before the end of the last campaign, he was just biding the announcement for the right time - thats not to say he wont come back though, I dont have a clue about that.

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But again, isn't this just media speculation? I'm not saying that it isn't true, just that we can't know for sure.

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Originally Posted by jmurphyc

The whole Slovakia and Czech Republic injury thing was IMO blown out of proportion. Nobody knows how badly injured he was, and the fact that he played for Liverpool the next week doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't badly injured the week before.

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But it wasn't a week, it was less than 3 days from the Czech game to the Liverpool game and its unlikely a 30 year old can go from being a cert to miss a game to being able to play a full 90 minutes less the 3 days later, that isn't blown things out of proportion, its pretty resonable to assume IMO that if he was capable of playing for Liverpool so soon after that he could have at least made the trip even if he was a doubt. Its quite possible the shambles of the last campaign contributed to his decision but the fact that he annonced his decision before new manager was even in place suggests to me that he has no intention of reconsidering

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Originally Posted by Morbo

But it wasn't a week, it was less than 3 days from the Czech game to the Liverpool game and its unlikely a 30 year old can go from being a cert to miss a game to being able to play a full 90 minutes less the 3 days later, that isn't blown things out of proportion, its pretty resonable to assume IMO that if he was capable of playing for Liverpool so soon after that he could have at least made the trip even if he was a doubt.

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If the game was in Ireland then maybe you might be right but considering that it was in the Czech Republic then what would have been the point in him making the trip out on a plane when he would be best served recovering at his club? He never had a history of pulling out of squads before to serve his club and he didn't do it afterwards, so why do it then? Staunton and Liverpool's medical staff continued to monitor the injury each day and he was regarded as being close to fitness for the Czech Republic match (in fact Richard Dunne said he would be fit on time) so I don't think he figured it wasn't worth it.

No. In 2002 we had a few leaders on the park.

Would I trade our new improved Richie Dunne for Breen, Cunningham and Staunton from '02? YES! One central defender can't possibly be better than three competent ones.

Are people still so hung up on RMK's non participation in '02 that they won't give Holland and Kinsella their fair due? The Reid twins are very average players and are both sicknotes. Kinsella and Holland were great together at the tournament in Korea/Japan.

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Originally Posted by danonion

Would I trade our new improved Richie Dunne for Breen, Cunningham and Staunton from '02? YES! One central defender can't possibly be better than three competent ones.

Are people still so hung up on RMK's non participation in '02 that they won't give Holland and Kinsella their fair due? The Reid twins are very average players and are both sicknotes. Kinsella and Holland were great together at the tournament in Korea/Japan.

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i would agree that kinsella and holland deserve more credit than they have been given

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Originally Posted by danonion

Are people still so hung up on RMK's non participation in '02 that they won't give Holland and Kinsella their fair due? The Reid twins are very average players and are both sicknotes.

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I must disagree with your opinion on our players more than the people on here with a bias against us. :D Kinsella deserves credit but I wasn't Matt Holland's biggest fan. I don't think Kinsella and Holland could be classed as above average by anyones standards anyway.

A.Reid for me would be in the elite bracket of passers in the premiership. I rate him that highly. He reads the game so well too. He struggled when he got closed down quickly against Cyprus though. If he can get used to that he'll be superb but give him space and his passing is an absolute joy.

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Originally Posted by jmurphyc

But again, isn't this just media speculation? I'm not saying that it isn't true, just that we can't know for sure.

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no i said this on the website around the time of the cyprus game i think, that he was going to retire.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

no i said this on the website around the time of the cyprus game i think, that he was going to retire.

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Okay. I think I can remember you saying that now that I think about it. Hopefully he was retiring due to the shambles of the last campaign and re-evaluates his opinions after seeing that we've now got a potentially excellent manager in charge.

International football is at least as much about organisation as it is about having good players. Trap can organise. That is a fact. If the Irish players aren't too thick, unwilling or incapable of doing what they're told by one of modern football's greatest coaches, things will go well.

I'm actually just watching Spain v Ireland again tonight. Have a look at this clip of Kilbane and Keane both skinning Puyol (Kilbane also puts another guy on his arse):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YciOwBodD44

And btw, Puyol regularly made a fool of himself at that age (he still does the odd time). Cut Paul McShane some slack. Look past the dodgy barnet and style of play and he's a good reader of the game imo.