Lawrie Sanchez

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22/12/2007, 4:43 PM
kennedmc

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

This is not the time to be appointing a manager with a good record of working with "limited resources". Garvan, Ireland, McGeady, Stokes, Gibson, McCarthy, etc. coming through are a lot more continental in style rather than British. They're all very technically gifted players and most of them natural playmakers. You want a manager that'll play to their strengths which is a good passing game.

Bit of a bizzare statement IMO......
You'd swear we had a squad comparable to Spain, France etc.

McGeady and Ireland are excellent young players who have perfomed at a hghh level. Ireland has 1st calls technique but McGeady is more skill than technique......

THe others are have not achieved anything yet as yet and are playing at a fairly low level. Stokes has done absolutely nothing in the PL and he lacks pace and movement to lead the line.

McCarthy is only 17 and its unfair to put too much pressure on him.

Gibson and Garvan - there is no guarantees that these two will make it at the highest level.
22/12/2007, 4:47 PM
kennedmc

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Aye in a Sunderland team with a bunch of players who don't seem to know what a through ball is.

His scoring record for Arsenal resevers was pretty poor (when he did play upfront) - and they do know how to play.

If you look through the record of the Scottishl league over the last 20 years that scored goals in the SPL and did **** all elsewhere
22/12/2007, 5:12 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennedmc

His scoring record for Arsenal resevers was pretty poor (when he did play upfront) - and they do know how to play.

from October 2004:
"A natural finisher, Anthony excelled last year, making three reserve team appearances and scoring four times from eight Under-19 appearances - all as a 15 year-old.

He scored 12 goals from 17 Under-17 outings, and netted four from two FA Youth Cup games.

The young Irishman has trained with the first team on several occasions."

March 2005:
"Stokes' 7th goal for the reserves this season. Pretty good considering he has only started 10 or 11 games and played in midfield in his last 5 or so matches."

He rarely played up front after that.

Quote:

If you look through the record of the Scottishl league over the last 20 years that scored goals in the SPL and did **** all elsewhere

Larsson - Proven everywhere.
Hartson - 24 goals in a season with West Ham.
Viduka - scored 22 for Leeds after leaving Celtic.
Negri - scored 15 Serie A goals the season before joining Rangers.
Cadete - scored 25 goals for Sporting in a season in Portugal before joining Celtic.
Van Hooijdonk - scored 34 for Forest the season after leaving Celtic and also 22 in the Dutch league after that.
Boyd - Hasn't played outside Scotland. 7 goals in 13 for Scotland.
Riordan - Hasn't played outside of Scotland.

Anyone else?
22/12/2007, 5:44 PM
kennedmc

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

from October 2004:
"A natural finisher, Anthony excelled last year, making three reserve team appearances and scoring four times from eight Under-19 appearances - all as a 15 year-old.

He scored 12 goals from 17 Under-17 outings, and netted four from two FA Youth Cup games.

The young Irishman has trained with the first team on several occasions."

March 2005:
"Stokes' 7th goal for the reserves this season. Pretty good considering he has only started 10 or 11 games and played in midfield in his last 5 or so matches."

He rarely played up front after that.

Larsson - Proven everywhere.
Hartson - 24 goals in a season with West Ham.
Viduka - scored 22 for Leeds after leaving Celtic.
Negri - scored 15 Serie A goals the season before joining Rangers.
Cadete - scored 25 goals for Sporting in a season in Portugal before joining Celtic.
Van Hooijdonk - scored 34 for Forest the season after leaving Celtic and also 22 in the Dutch league after that.
Boyd - Hasn't played outside Scotland. 7 goals in 13 for Scotland.
Riordan - Hasn't played outside of Scotland.

Anyone else?

I watched Stokes in person for almost 18 months playing for Arsenal reservers.

THose four goals mentioned scored above were in a youth cup tie against wait for it........Crawley Town. Arse won 7-1. Wow - what a legend.

His scoring record for the reservers / youth team overall was pretty poor. There is a reason why they moved him from HIS preferred striking role to a midfilelder bevause they didn't rate him as a striker. THey know there stuff and from I bave seen I tend to agree with them.

My point about the SPL is that many average strikers have done very well there - scoring goals in the SPL doesn't count for much.

I'm not saying that there have been no good strikers in the SPL over the last 20 years. THere's a difference.
22/12/2007, 5:49 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennedmc

My point about the SPL is that many average strikers have done very well there - scoring goals in the SPL doesn't count for much.

I'm not saying that there have been no good strikers in the SPL over the last 20 years. THere's a difference.

I actually just listed the players that have scored 20 goals in the SPL in the last 12 years. I don't know where to find records for the previous 8 years. ;)

With regards Stokes. I'd rather he joined Celtic for his own good tbh. He'd most likely be playing up front and being coached to improve the attributes that are required to be a top striker. I think it's pretty clear he's a terrible winger.

Anyway, apologies. We're going way off topic here and my main point is we have better than "limited resources".
22/12/2007, 5:55 PM
kennedmc

I'd like to see him succeed aas much as any other young Irish player......= whether it be as a striker or attacking midfilelder......perhaps a spell in the championship or the SPL where he is getting regular 1st team football would make all the difference....
22/12/2007, 6:07 PM
waide

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I actually just listed the players that have scored 20 goals in the SPL in the last 12 years. I don't know where to find records for the previous 8 years. ;)

With regards Stokes. I'd rather he joined Celtic for his own good tbh. He'd most likely be playing up front and being coached to improve the attributes that are required to be a top striker. I think it's pretty clear he's a terrible winger.

Anyway, apologies. We're going way off topic here and my main point is we have better than "limited resources".

Eirebhoy I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the republic,but you have to look at the calibre of the squad,with the exeption of Shay Given can you name me one irish player that would get into the english team and they did not even qualify for the euros.so when i talk about limited that's where i'm coming from.
22/12/2007, 7:02 PM
eirebhoy

ok fair enough. It's not about which of our players could make the English team though. I could name quite a few Irish players that'd make the Polish team. And the English team would be more suited to Lawrie Sanchez's style of play than the Polish team. It's about playing to our strengths and I'll go mad if James McCarthy and Owen Garvan are coached into typical British players like Steven Gerrard. I'm not saying Steven Gerrard isn't a top class player but there's a reason England aren't at the Euro's. Brainless football.
22/12/2007, 8:54 PM
NeilMcD

Sanchez plays long ball football. We dont have the players for that style of football. Therefore he is not suitable to be our manager.
22/12/2007, 9:24 PM
kingdomkerry

How are players like

Dunne
Finnan
Duff
McGeady
Hunt
Keane
Doyle

limited resources? All top players!

Quote:

Originally Posted by waide

Eirebhoy I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the republic,but you have to look at the calibre of the squad,with the exeption of Shay Given can you name me one irish player that would get into the english team and they did not even qualify for the euros.so when i talk about limited that's where i'm coming from.
23/12/2007, 8:09 AM
bennocelt

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Sanchez plays long ball football. We dont have the players for that style of football. Therefore he is not suitable to be our manager.

you obviously havent been paying attention to the last rake of irish games
The usual thing was irish player in defence has ball, panics, passes it back to Shay who boots it up the field, hoping that kilbane will get a head to it. Repeat about a thousand times, and we might get a lucky goal.

I was so happy to see sanchez get the boot, selfish *******., and wouldnt want him near the irish job
(but to be fair he isnt a bad coach)
23/12/2007, 11:36 AM
NeilMcD

I think its the fact that I have been paying attention How have we done using the tactics you say, lost 5-2 to Cyprus away and drew at home and barely beat San Marino. You have just proven my point. I am not saying we have not played it with these players but it does not suit the players we have at the moment or coming through to play long ball football.

Thanks again for proving my point.
23/12/2007, 12:29 PM
waide

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

How are players like

Dunne
Finnan
Duff
McGeady
Hunt
Keane
Doyle

limited resources? All top players!

These players are average premiership players, not top of the range internationals.
23/12/2007, 12:55 PM
Noelys Guitar

Quote:

Originally Posted by waide

These players are average premiership players, not top of the range internationals.

I give those "wee tinted" specs a wipe.
23/12/2007, 1:02 PM
eirebhoy

In fairness though, I think Hunt would fall into the "limited" category. :)
23/12/2007, 1:07 PM
Noelys Guitar

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

In fairness though, I think Hunt would fall into the "limited" category. :)

Hunt is a hugely under-rated player. Will be playing for Everton come Feb.
23/12/2007, 1:52 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

I give those "wee tinted" specs a wipe.

I was thinking the same...except for kingdom kerry.

You honestly believe we have 7 top of the range internationals in our team :eek:
...and yet can barely beat San Marino and can't beat Cyprus
23/12/2007, 1:53 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Hunt is a hugely under-rated player. Will be playing for Everton come Feb.

And? That certainly does not make him a top quality international. He is a lad with limited ability but plenty of energy and heart.

He will never be a top quality player
23/12/2007, 2:26 PM
Noelys Guitar

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

I was thinking the same...except for kingdom kerry.

You honestly believe we have 7 top of the range internationals in our team :eek:
...and yet can barely beat San Marino and can't beat Cyprus

Yes I do. Not of Brazilian quality. But good enough to qualify and get to the finals of a Euro championship or World Cup. I heard all this negative stuff before Charlton took over. No World class players other than Brady. Turned out to be nonsense once a manager who knew what he was doing took over.
23/12/2007, 2:45 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Yes I do. Not of Brazilian quality. But good enough to qualify and get to the finals of a Euro championship or World Cup. I heard all this negative stuff before Charlton took over. No World class players other than Brady.

But the question wasnt do we have 7 players good enough to take us to a major championship.

Waide(rightly imo) made the claim that the 7 players named were ' average premiership players, not top of the range internationals'.

You told him take off the tinted glasses.

Thats what i'm challenging. I see nothing wrong with his claim(although Id argue 2 would be above average). Thats not to say 7 average premiership players cant get us to a major championship with the right management.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Turned out to be nonsense once a manager who knew what he was doing took over.

I dont see how it was nonsense. What other player was world class? You dont need world class players to qualify or even do reasonably well in a tournament.

You need stability in the team, a manager who knows what he's doing and a bit of quality aswell as luck.

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