Dublin Bus Strike

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

A lot of the drivers at Harristown live out in places like Cavan, Drogheda and Dundalk so having to travel into the City centre to start your shift is a big difference from having to drive to Harristown.

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I fail to see how that is relevant. Their place of work in bus depot but because some drivers start the shift in the City centre they get paid to traveling time into the City.

I don't think anything served by saying all public sector unions like CIE ones but if it is true they already get paid traveling time then it is clear this is just a case of having a fight for the sake of it. Disgraceful behaviour from employees of a public (can't be fired) monopoly (no competition).

:(

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Originally Posted by pete

I don't think anything served by saying all public sector unions like CIE ones but if it is true they already get paid traveling time then it is clear this is just a case of having a fight for the sake of it. Disgraceful behaviour from employees of a public (can't be fired) monopoly (no competition).

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This is the prime example of people only hearing one side of the story...

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Originally Posted by Macy

This is the prime example of people only hearing one side of the story...

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I've yet to hear or read a clear explanation of any real justification for a strike.

Several parties with an interest have tried. Either they're all autistic, or there's bugger all justification for a strike by my standards.

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Originally Posted by John83

I've yet to hear or read a clear explanation of any real justification for a strike.

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I fully expected someone to counter the suggestion that the union wanted extra 5 minutes (i still can't believe this could be the issue) to get into & out of town but I am still waiting... :confused:

It could be that the union in this particular depot not happy with concessions given previously but this does not justify the strike & those issues seems trivial. I think Management did not want to back down probably on the give an inch take a mile principle. If the union had such a strong case why did workers in other depots not join them on strike?

For what it is worth I think driving a bus in Dublin is a had job (traffic, pedestrians, bicycles etc...) but that is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Macy

PR battle is most definitely being lost. I'm not sure what can be done to change that. Nearly every media outlet has a right wing bias - indeed with the largest group in the country it's a bloody tradition!

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The media in this country is only echoing what the private sector workers know to be the truth. What we got at Dublin Bus last week was a window into the surreal culture within the CIE unions and it was even more deranged than any of us even imagined.

It's not a right-wing conspiricy - it's the Irish taxpayer not being made a sucker by repeats of Strumpet City and thinking we have to give up our salary for the lads in in CIE unions because "it's what Big Jim would of wanted".

and now we have it starting again in the ESB. Guess who organises the unions in that semi-state? Brendan Ogle the insane Leninist who almost destroyed the rail network with the ILDA strike in 2000. He is also a massive hero within SIPTU and the Labour Party and he is a complete fruitcake. CIE unions was where he learn all this, because his screwball version of greedy socialism is the norm within CIE unions. This is why they followed him and were willing to destory our national rail network - some "public transport professionals" eh! :rolleyes:

I work to pay my bills, not to take care of psychotic cultures within the CIE unions and everyone I know feels the same. Therefore the media is echoing this perfectly understandable feeling among "the workers"...(the real ones that is, not the semi-state type Liberty Hall exclusively represents)

The days of SIPTU and Liberty Hall hoping that a few bars from Christy Moore (millionaire socialist), or Brendan Gleeson (millionaire socialist) screaming in a psychotic rage on the Late Late being a determining factor in private sector workers donating 50%+ to support the astounding muppetry in the NBRU are over. People in the private sector want to work hard and keep most of their wages and not hand it over to them greedy, delusional, selfish creeps in Harristown garage and the rest of the NBRU madhouse.

Here is a basic exercise in reality:

Compare how good the Luas is, compared to the DART. Both are trains, both urban rapid transit. Everybody loves the Luas and wants more lines, everybody hates the DART - the only difference, one is controlled by the CIE unions and one isn't.

Case Closed and roll on the Metro.

I like the DART.

What's wrong with the DART?

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Originally Posted by Boh_So_Good

They are off their box in the CIE unions - completely out of control.

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They are not the ones deliberately wrecking public services so that they can justify privatisation! Its the employers in this country who have been out of control for far too long, its about time the unions started getting Militant. Public sector workers have been signing away their rights for years now for a paltry return. Its time to draw a line in the sand. this was not a trivial matter. If so why would a workforce, the majority of whom were not directly affected by the new arrangements have gone out on strike so close to Christmas? The new scheduling arrangements are the thin end of a wedge. Management will demand more and more concessions now.
However if you choose to buy the bulls1t that spews forth from the billionaire owned media who's mates just happen to be trying to get their greasy palms on public services then thats your prerogative.
Time for a three little pigs approach.
Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin. Stand up and Fight!

http://www.socialistparty.net/pdf/te...s12-11-07.html

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

What's wrong with the DART?

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I'll take it you don't travel on it during the rush hours in the morning and the evening

On the comparison between the LUAS and the DART, they both get Public money. One has private money aswell.
On the state of public transport in Dublin - it is only subsidised to 5% of its running costs - the privately run London tube is subsidised to the tune of 35% of its running costs by the government. Public transport in spain is recieves subsidies of around 50% of its running costs. So you see, in comparison Irish public transport is GROSSLY UNDERFUNDED! When you look at it that way you can not deny that CIE workers actually do a decent job with the resources they are given.
I'm a regular user of public transport. Its not always perfect. however its better than my experiences of privatised public transport in Britain. The answer is not privatisation or scapegoating of CIE workers - the answer is a properly funded public transport system that is controlled by the workers and customers of CIE services, not appointed bureaucrats who travel around in chauffeur driven Mercs.

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Originally Posted by jebus

I'll take it you don't travel on it during the rush hours in the morning and the evening

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I travel on it during rush hours in the morning and the evening.

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Originally Posted by Student Mullet

I travel on it during rush hours in the morning and the evening.

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And you think being squashed into a non air conditioned carriage like a sardine, with people jabbing you in the ribs at every turn (thats of course assuming that people can actually move their arms at this stage) with more and more people pilling on at each stop isn't the worst part of your day?

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Originally Posted by jebus

And you think being squashed into a non air conditioned carriage like a sardine, with people jabbing you in the ribs at every turn (thats of course assuming that people can actually move their arms at this stage) with more and more people pilling on at each stop isn't the worst part of your day?

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It would depend on what kind of a day I'm having. Some days everything goes so well that a quick trip across the city might be the worst thing in it but generally I don't get worked up about little things like that.

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Originally Posted by Student Mullet

It would depend on what kind of a day I'm having. Some days everything goes so well that a quick trip across the city might be the worst thing in it but generally I don't get worked up about little things like that.

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Little things like being charged for the pleasure of a public transport system modelled on that of New Delhi? Or little things like watching people leave old men and women and pregnant ladies stand whilst they and others turn a blind eye to their horror show manners?

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Originally Posted by jebus

Little things like being charged for the pleasure of a public transport system modelled on that of New Delhi? Or little things like watching people leave old men and women and pregnant ladies stand whilst they and others turn a blind eye to their horror show manners?

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Yes, they are two examples of things I don't get worked up about. I'm worried that if I did, I might start blaming the employment status of the train driver for the rudeness of passengers not giving up their seats, which would clearly be ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Boh_So_Good

and now we have it starting again in the ESB. Guess who organises the unions in that semi-state? Brendan Ogle the insane Leninist who almost destroyed the rail network with the ILDA strike in 2000. He is also a massive hero within SIPTU and the Labour Party and he is a complete fruitcake. CIE unions was where he learn all this, because his screwball version of greedy socialism is the norm within CIE unions. This is why they followed him and were willing to destory our national rail network - some "public transport professionals" eh! :rolleyes:

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Eh, Brendan Ogle is a hero in Liberty Hall and with SIPTU? You do realise that ILDA/ Ogle broke away from SIPTU and he's now ATGWU which isn't anything to do with SIPTU?

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Originally Posted by Boh_So_Good

The days of SIPTU and Liberty Hall hoping that a few bars from Christy Moore (millionaire socialist), or Brendan Gleeson (millionaire socialist) screaming in a psychotic rage on the Late Late being a determining factor in private sector workers donating 50%+ to support the astounding muppetry in the NBRU are over. People in the private sector want to work hard and keep most of their wages and not hand it over to them greedy, delusional, selfish creeps in Harristown garage and the rest of the NBRU madhouse.

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The NBRU are not even ICTU affiliated let along some how part of some mythical SIPTU/Liberty Hall consipiracy.

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Originally Posted by Boh_So_Good

Compare how good the Luas is, compared to the DART. Both are trains, both urban rapid transit. Everybody loves the Luas and wants more lines, everybody hates the DART - the only difference, one is controlled by the CIE unions and one isn't.

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LUAS is actually a SIPTU closed shop - delighted it's working for you so well.

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Originally Posted by Student Mullet

Yes, they are two examples of things I don't get worked up about. I'm worried that if I did, I might start blaming the employment status of the train driver for the rudeness of passengers not giving up their seats, which would clearly be ridiculous.

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I agree, however getting worked about the loss of community in society and of decency in ordinary people is no small thing in my eyes, and can't be dismissed as something that you shouldn't get worked up about.

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Originally Posted by jebus

I agree, however getting worked about the loss of community in society and of decency in ordinary people is no small thing in my eyes, and can't be dismissed as something that you shouldn't get worked up about.

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I wholeheartedly concur with that sentiment. :)

As soon as norms of behaviour stop becoming, well, norms then society is sliding down a slippery slope. I'm not entirely sure, however, whether the solution lies in publicly barracking those who neglect common decency or preaching the gospel on foot.ie. Whichever, I'm part of a two man crusade to do something about it, which in all honesty I think I would find to be more fulfilling, and who knows maybe even more important, than spending time campaigning for worker's rights, for if we can somehow get society to embrace the Amalgamated Union of Good Unselfish Sociable Talents' core values of respect, decency and above all compassion then in turn industrial relations issues will be more amicably and satisfactorily resolved.

I hereby proudly announce the promulgation of AUGUST. (as in the word, not the month ;))

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Originally Posted by jebus

I agree, however getting worked about the loss of community in society and of decency in ordinary people is no small thing in my eyes, and can't be dismissed as something that you shouldn't get worked up about.

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All part of the same pot as people hating unions. Afterall, Trade Unions are made up of normal working people. The attitude today prevails that they must be smashed so that companies can run rough shod over the workers so the few owners/ shareholders/ managers can get richer while the worker has his terms and conditions peed on. It directly correlates to how ordinary people treat each other - every person for themselves; I'm alright jack get the fook off my ladder.

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Originally Posted by Macy

All part of the same pot as people hating unions. Afterall, Trade Unions are made up of normal working people. The attitude today prevails that they must be smashed so that companies can run rough shod over the workers so the few owners/ shareholders/ managers can get richer while the worker has his terms and conditions peed on. It directly correlates to how ordinary people treat each other - every person for themselves; I'm alright jack get the fook off my ladder.

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I agree again, I'm all for Unions having influence, and can't understand anyone who doesn't own national and multinational companies being against them. I remember SIPTU nailing the Omniplex chain to the wall when I worked there seven years ago for the appalling way they treated their staff and I'm as grateful now as I was then that there is someone around that the worker can go to when they are being treated that way.

All power to AUGUST! (nice name by the way Hoop, you've outplayed the best of us yet again!)