You players capable of higher standard than LOI/IL

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10/05/2007, 3:30 PM
Steve Bruce

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

In fairness the Championships average attendence passed out that of Serie A last year, and when you consider the attendence figures of clubs like Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland and quite a few more Championship clubs this year then I can't see how the EL will ever catch up the Championship in terms of crowds or wages

I'm glad some one here has a bit of reality.

I agree with this.
10/05/2007, 3:33 PM
GavinZac

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

In fairness the Championships average attendence passed out that of Serie A last year, and when you consider the attendence figures of clubs like Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland and quite a few more Championship clubs this year then I can't see how the EL will ever catch up the Championship in terms of crowds or wages

The examples you put forth are representative of city's much larger than any club's catchment in Ireland. On the other hand, Colchester are in the championship and average 4000 people at games.

of course, the eL needs outside investment aswell as increased attendances, the same as the championship does/did.
10/05/2007, 3:33 PM
Dodge

It never will, but that doesn't mean a side like Drogheda wouldn't have the bones a squad that could easily stay in the Championship. The top 4/5 el sides all have at least 5/6 players that are good enough to play championship or scottish premier football.

The crowds argument is ridiculous.

BTW fair enough Gavin...
10/05/2007, 3:33 PM
Cymro

As I was saying to dcfcsteve in another thread even League One has average attendances about twice that of Irish sides.

Swansea would have average attendances about 4 times the size of the best League of Ireland side.

League of Ireland crowds are on a par with League Two or the Conference. Or, in one or two teams cases, lower than that.

Got a long way to go to match the Championship in terms of crowds and generally speaking Championship sides have much more money too.
10/05/2007, 3:35 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Another jibe:rolleyes:

Anyway, You will NEVER match Championship level, You might get League 1 level but never championship. Crowds of 20,000 etc and wages of 10,000 a week. I very much doubt that. But if you do achieve that I will be the first to eat humble pie and tip my hat to yous.

Our recent European record would say different.

Granted thats only the top sides and the rest of the League isn't as good (and it could also argued that the recent success has been built on pillars of sand financially).

But you compared the IL & EL to English division 4 or whatever its called these days, so I genuinely don't think you're up to speed on what level our League is at.

Linfield are not a good proxy for the standard of the wider IL, and if you continue to claim parity based purely on Linfields Setanta results, you are going to continue to be ignored on here.
10/05/2007, 3:35 PM
gustavo

Thread is about players being able to play at a higher standard not about crowds in the UK
10/05/2007, 3:36 PM
pete

English Championship is poor enough quality so loads of eL players could make it.

How many could make the Premiership? We have 3 ex-players with Premiership sides & probably one more on his way...
10/05/2007, 3:36 PM
GavinZac

Quote:

Originally Posted by gustavo

Thread is about players being able to play at a higher standard not about crowds in the UK

yes but if the threat starter is defining "a higher standard" as the lowest level of the football league in england, we have a problem right from the start.
10/05/2007, 3:38 PM
jebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinZac

The examples you put forth are representative of city's much larger than any club's catchment in Ireland. On the other hand, Colchester are in the championship and average 4000 people at games.

of course, the eL needs outside investment aswell as increased attendances, the same as the championship does/did.

EL will still never catch up in terms of crowds or size of the clubs because they don't even have the stadia in place to even come close to that of the Championships average attendence. You listed Colchester as 4,000 average, but I could list you at least 20 of the 24 Championship clubs this season that no team in this country will ever come close to matching for attendences, and thats probably doing an injustice to 3 of the remaining 4. It's real pie in the sky talk to talk of the EL matching the Championship.
10/05/2007, 3:39 PM
paudie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Darragh ryan couldn't get a game for UCD last year and now Corkies think he's good enough for the Championship in England...

My opinion is based on the fact that:

1. Ryan has impressed me a lot this season. I am genuinely amazed he couldn't get his game for UCD last season.

2. Danny Murphy and Sean Dillon seem well up to SPL standard since they've moved. i said Darragh could make it in SPL also.

3. The general standard of the Championship isn't great.

4. I also said that a successful move is based on the players own attitude and if Darragh worked hard and got a few breaks he could do well at that level.
10/05/2007, 3:40 PM
Cymro

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinZac

The examples you put forth are representative of city's much larger than any club's catchment in Ireland. On the other hand, Colchester are in the championship and average 4000 people at games.

of course, the eL needs outside investment aswell as increased attendances, the same as the championship does/did.

Cork has a population larger than Swansea, yet Swansea get far higher crowds. (about 3,000 at Cork compared to about 12,000 at the Liberty Stadium)

Why do Swansea get higher crowds? Better team? Nah, can't be. :p
10/05/2007, 3:40 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinZac

yes but if the threat starter is defining "a higher standard" as the lowest level of the football league in england, we have a problem right from the start.

The thread starter is extrapolating Linfields performance in the Setanta (pre-season warm up for our summer season) to equate the IL to the EL. This is completely flawed, as the respective Leagues recent Euro coefficient rankings show.
10/05/2007, 3:40 PM
GavinZac

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

EL will still never catch up... they don't even have the stadia in place to even come close

future tense... present tense.

i'm not talking about in the next 10 years, its just ridiculous to make an assertive claim that it never will be anywhere near it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymro

Cork has a population larger than Swansea, yet Swansea get far higher crowds. (about 3,000 at Cork compared to about 12,000 at the Liberty Stadium)

Why do Swansea get higher crowds? Better team? Nah, can't be. :p

A combination of Hurling and Football's success, general hostility toward the eircom league, the incomparable competition with EPL sides, and the every-so-often likelihood of meeting a "famous" team.

by the way, we beat swansea last time we played them, if i recall correctly.
10/05/2007, 3:44 PM
Steve Bruce

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinZac

The examples you put forth are representative of city's much larger than any club's catchment in Ireland. On the other hand, Colchester are in the championship and average 4000 people at games.

of course, the eL needs outside investment aswell as increased attendances, the same as the championship does/did.

You are comparing the lowest average supported team who has a higher average than the HIGHEST average supported team in LOI
10/05/2007, 3:44 PM
jebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinZac

future tense... present tense.

i'm not talking about in the next 10 years, its just ridiculous to make an assertive claim that it never will be anywhere near it.

Hardly, give it 10, 20, 30 years, whatever it will still be the same, if anything, barring a miracle, the gulf will just widen. I honestly don't see how you think Cork, Pats, Bohs, etc. will ever catch the likes of Coventry, Norwich, Ipswich etc., and they aren't even among the biggest clubs in the Championship
10/05/2007, 3:45 PM
GavinZac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

You are comparing the lowest average supported team who has a higher average than the HIGHEST average supported team in LOI

Yes, at present. You're claiming we never, ever will pass them out, which is a ridiculous assumption and indicative of your lack of ambition, probably brought about by years of embarrassment in europe. mind you, very many people would have said that ten years ago when eL sides were being slaughtered in europe too.
10/05/2007, 3:47 PM
Steve Bruce

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Our recent European record would say different.

Granted thats only the top sides and the rest of the League isn't as good (and it could also argued that the recent success has been built on pillars of sand financially).

But you compared the IL & EL to English division 4 or whatever its called these days, so I genuinely don't think you're up to speed on what level our League is at.

Linfield are not a good proxy for the standard of the wider IL, and if you continue to claim parity based purely on Linfields Setanta results, you are going to continue to be ignored on here.

My point is Linfield would be comfortably challanging for your league if we played in it. I do not believe Linfield or Cork City or Derry City or any other team would live in the Championship, nor near it. But there are a few players in each club that could.
10/05/2007, 3:47 PM
jebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinZac

Yes, at present. You're claiming we never, ever will pass them out, which is a ridiculous assumption and indicative of your lack of ambition.

And where is this sudden surge of interest in our clubs going to come from? A surge that would push Cork's average gate to at least the 22,000 mark, and while this is happening interest in the English game would presumably have to tail off so the clubs Cork are trying to catch don't expand their fanbase
10/05/2007, 3:48 PM
GavinZac

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

And where is this sudden surge of interest in our clubs going to come from? A surge that would push Cork's average gate to at least the 22,000 mark, and while this is happening interest in the English game would presumably have to tail off so the clubs Cork are trying to catch don't expand their fanbase

that kind of support has been present in the past, is present for other sports events and i see no reason to suggest it is an impossible task for the future. its been a long road downhill and it'll probably be a long road uphill but if half the people that currently obsess about EPL were to give the same support for their local clubs tomorrow as seen in other countries, we wouldnt be far off it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

My point is Linfield would be comfortably challanging for your league if we played in it.

on what basis do you make this claim?
10/05/2007, 3:50 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

My point is Linfield would be comfortably challanging for your league if we played in it. I do not believe Linfield or Cork City or Derry City or any other team would live in the Championship, nor near it. But there are a few players in each club that could.

I made that point!!!

The top 3 of our League has been as good as the top half of division 1 standard over the past 5 years. I think we's struggle in the Championship too, but we are comfortably better than the English 2nd division.

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