Election 2007

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Originally Posted by Student Mullet

That's my poinion too. I voted green last time and probably will again but a lot of their policies are completly loony.

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Out of curiosity, which ones?

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I'm not claiming the left could do better. Just stating there isn't a left leaning option on offer in any practical sense.

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I think it would make a difference. If you look at the increased votes for the Shinners, the Green's and in a more modest way, the SP (We don't have the resources to run candidates in more than 4 or 5 constituencies) you see that there is a section of the electorate groping in the dark for an alternative to the status quo. Problem is that as soon as the Shinners or the Green's go into coalition with right wing parties they become part of that self same status quo, increasing the alienation of those people who were looking for an alternative.
A mass left force, a broad party that had roots in the working class and had an open and democratic structure to allow different strands of leftism to co-exist and debate their positions could have an impact. I'm not saying it would come to power overnight but at least in the interim it would be a viable and effective opposition in contrast with the theatre that exists at the moment. In time it could prove itself to be not "the same as the rest" and coax some of those non-voters out of their apathy.

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Originally Posted by Student Mullet

I voted green last time and probably will again but a lot of their policies are completly loony.

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Actually my problem with the Green's is not their policies - most of them are completely sensible imo - it's their candidate in my constituency that's completely loony.

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

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There's a myth in Labour that the Dick Spring/Albert government damaged them when in reality it was the unelected FG/Lab government that took over that did the real electoral damage to Labour.

KOH

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thats simply not true
you can even look at the figures Labour got before and after they went into power with that shower
they lost a lot of support after that

and they are doing the same thing by throwin in their lot with FG, have they no fcuking shame!

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

thats simply not true
you can even look at the figures Labour got before and after they went into power with that shower
they lost a lot of support after that

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Sorry mate, that maybe the perception but the SBP and eminent political scientists disagree. That misperception has cost Labour dearly since and is costing them to this day. Witness Rabbitte's current flip-flopping which is going to lose lots of votes.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/st...388-qqqx=1.asp

KOH

Moderator: If anyone is referring to parties policies could they please post a link to them if can find...

I suggested SF don't have any real world polices because I have look before & can never find any policies for SF on their website. Its all just generalities & no specifics or even suggestions how to pay for expenditure. I wouldn't need speciific figures but even a general suggestion would be good...

Of all the parties, I'd say SF are the ones least worried about how to actually pay for their policies. After all, a few more Northern Bank jobs and they could dangle an electoral carrot of high spending and goodies for everyone that'd make the FF manifesto of 1977 look distinctly stingy. And all done without raising taxes.

Sometimes democracy is a curse cos you feel morally obliged to vote for someone, anyone. Too many people fought too long for us to have votes to go throwing the right away. But sweet jesus, looking at what's on offer, I could almost put up with a couple of years of dictatorship, absolute monarchy, or whatever, if it meant I didn't actually HAVE to vote for any of this lot.

FF: slithery, sleeven, corrupt, vacuous, populist, Golden Circle filth. They have my da ("Papa Doc" copyright WAR) driven to despair that there hasn't been a revolution on account of what they've got up to for the guts of the last two decades. Not just the Celtic bloody Tiger era but more importantly, the majority of the suffocating crap that went before it.

FG: FF Lite, but with more big farmers hankering after the civil war which neatly put paid to all that uppity burning of big houses. Would probably even give up being the main partner in a coalition once they got to run the cops. But they're led by Enda Kenny, politics' answer to Daniel O'Donnell, so no chance of topping the charts for them. Now, he's realised he's out of a job when they lose, so he's gearing up for a bit of old-fashioned immigrant-bashing. If they're the "alternative", just bring on the full-blown one-party state why dontcha?

Labour: lost the last vestiges of respect for them since Rabbitte meekly gave up his crown as Devastating Wit of the Left to Joe Higgins. Even prepared to blather nonsense about "Irish workers being undercut by foreigh workers" which, for a party with its name, is about as breathtakingly hypocritical as you can get. Now pure political sluts, determined to get into bed with anyone who'll flash a set of Merc keys while riding them and calling them darling.

PDs: most reactionary tossers of the lot and no question that in proportional representations terms, they get preference number 666, the number of the beast. But at least they're naked about it so they're easier to hate, no figuring out needed. Absolute dead certs for being first up against the wall come the great day.

SF: barely even have any practical day-to-day relevance up north given the the political vacuum up there, so how they can expect to be meaningful down here, in the tiny republican overflow carpark, is beyond me. Get loads of votes purely cos they're none of the above. Can actually see them splitting down the road, as the southern element get too fond of having an elected presence with a chamber in which to make speeches, while the nordie element flap around in outer space.

Greens: sorry, since our green wheelie bin got nicked, environmental thinking doesn't really penetrate this house much, except for when it's time to go down the bottle bank. All very NICE and so on, but not what people really vote about at elections, is it? When the word (environ)"mental" turns up more in your manifesto than in anyone else's, it's gotta have some kind of effect on voters - it's subliminal code for "We are green, we are white, we are not so much dynamite but more so daft as brushes". But they also benefit from being none of the above although more so for the pacifist wing of the protest vote who aren't really down with guns and bullets and stuff, y'know?

BohsPartisan's lot: not sure if they run a candidate out my way but if they did, would definitely get my vote, if only for Chairman Joe's comedy interludes. Not quite the Bill Hicks of Irish politics, but at least he can rip the p1ss out of the rest like no-one else and give you a warm glow for being more or less on the same side and watching the other lot wilt a bit.

Independents: hate them, they just encourage the notion that we're all atomised and that there's no joined-up bits. Mé féinism gone mad. The fact that Michael Lowry is a sitting TD proves two things: criminals shouldn't be allowed run and Tipperary people shouldn't be allowed vote.

I think the election is going to be very very nasty and mighty painful to listen to. FF make my skin crawl just by virtue of the fact that they're still in existence. They rest are gonna wallow in a slurry of immigration, crime and clientalism. It's gonna be ugly and the outcome is gonna be uglier cos two out of the spoofer, the slut and the rabid dog scumbag are gonna be the main people governing us for the next five years.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

BohsPartisan's lot: not sure if they run a candidate out my way but if they did, would definitely get my vote.

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In all likelihood we'll have 4 candidates. Joe in Dub West, Clare D in Dub North, Mick Murphy out Tallaght way and Mick Barry in Cork (North Central I think).

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Originally Posted by Dr. Nightdub

Independents: hate them, they just encourage the notion that we're all atomised and that there's no joined-up bits. Mé féinism gone mad. The fact that Michael Lowry is a sitting TD proves two things: criminals shouldn't be allowed run and Tipperary people shouldn't be allowed vote.

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Think your being a bit harsh putting them all in one basket. Remember the people of Tipp also returned Seamus Healy who is a decent enough sort.

Oh speaking of criminals, me and another chap (Shels fan as it happens) ran into Ray Burke last night while out on the campaign trail for Clare. Quite the comic interlude.

My own constituency of Waterford is set for a battle royale with 4 seats up for grabs between the main parties; FF, FG, Lab, WP & SF. The 4 sitting TD's consist of Martin Cullen (FF) who happens to be one of the most useless ministers ever, his "able" sidekick Ollie Wilkinson(FF) who also happens to be one of the most useless TDs ever. (Either way these two will still get elected). FG is represented by John Deasy while Labour have veteran Brian O'Shea. Now this is where things get very interesting.

Waterford is divided demographically, socially, linguistically etc. into city and county. FF, Lab & and in particularly FG do substantially well in the county, however in the city its a different ball game and is evenly divided between Cullen who gets the builder/business vote, the Workers Party who traditionally get the urban working class and SF now muscling in on the WP & Lab county vote. FF & FG will have their candidates elected, however Labour are on very shaky ground.

O'Shea's star has waned and waiting in the wings is WP or SF who are on neck and neck. The WP have virtually no rural support while in the city they have 2 high profile city councillors. SF too are very active in the city, however the presence of a strong WP candidate has dented their hopes significantly of automatically taking the 4th seat. The best they can hope for is to get ahead of the WP, take their transfers and mount a strong challenge for the Labour one. For the last seat it will be down to the wire. If the WP pull ahead of SF, more than likely they will take the Lab seat. After that all bets are off and Dubya will declare Waterford part of the axis of evil.

Nationally, I think FF will lose up to 15 seats paving the way for a multicolour rainbow coalition. Earlier poster is right, if Rabbitte doesnt nail his colours firmly to the mast, Labour will be crucified up and down the country. As for SF the momentum has gone out of their sails but they will gain perhaps another one or two and hold what they have, while I can see the Greens gaining substantially. I hope they do. The SP could end up with 2 (Claire Daly) perhaps 3 if they play their cards right. We could also see more Independents and hopefully a WP man thrown in.

FF hopefully will be turfed out along with the PDs. Good riddance.

The Greens will be getting my vote once again, simply because I don't have any trust left in any of the other parties to look after anything but themselves. I also think the Green's are the only party who seriously consider, and would bring about changes in, animal welfare, state pensions, the enviroment in general and immigration, all of which are the key election issues for me.

To check out their policies go to http://www.greenparty.ie and look around

Given the lack of respect for parties across the political divide what coner of the electorate is not being catered for? If you have to create a new party what area of the spectrum would you target?

Green Party seem to have no transport policy... :confused:

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Originally Posted by pete

Given the lack of respect for parties across the political divide what coner of the electorate is not being catered for? If you have to create a new party what area of the spectrum would you target?

Green Party seem to have no transport policy... :confused:

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Well spotted, I'm a member on the site so I'll let them know about the mistake. They'll probably update it when they announce their full Election '07 policy anyway I reckon.

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Originally Posted by pete

Given the lack of respect for parties across the political divide what coner of the electorate is not being catered for? If you have to create a new party what area of the spectrum would you target?

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There is quite clearly a vacume on the left Pete.

Partizan

Are the WP running a candidate in Louth? I'm fishing for someone to vote for.

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Originally Posted by pete

Given the lack of respect for parties across the political divide what coner of the electorate is not being catered for? If you have to create a new party what area of the spectrum would you target?

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I honestly believe there is room for a party that campaigns on Regional issues such as implementation of the National Spatial Strategy (or a complete review of it more importantly), decentralisation of not only government departments but also government spending, tax breaks for regional development similar to those that were available to the IFSC and the Dublin Docklands Development Authority, the break up of Dublin Port to free up lands in Dublin Docklands for development and move port activities to the likes of Arklow, Drogheda, Dundalk and Rosslare, Atlantic Corridor Motorway/Dual Carriageway, more spending on buses in Dublin with Bus Corridors, national broadcasting to fulfill its remit on regional reporting and become a National broadcaster, Extension of all the City Boundaries, centralisation of cultural activities etc, etc.

All of the biggest problems that this country faces are down to a lack of proper planning. The congestion in Dublin is costing this country serious money and needs to tackled. Double digit House price inflation(unsustainable), longer commutes (lower quality of life), more carbon emissions, wage inflation (less competitive economy), etc, etc.

Why the spend all that money on a Port Tunnell when moving it would be far cheaper, create a huge land bank for development in Dublin, remove significant traffic congestion and boost the economy in other ports?

Why not have one Airport for the country in the Midlands somewhere (only an hour from Dublin by rail and similar distances to Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford?

Why build a National Stadium in Dublin? Far cheaper, plenty of land available in the Midlands somewhere? More accessible again for everyone.

The National Childrens Hospital? Don't get me started.

Notice the common thread here Bertie and his backyard!

Dublin is our capital but why does everything have to be located there? It doesn't need to be and it doesn't make financial sense to have everything located in one small area, geographically locked by the sea on one side.

Dublin would be a far more "liveable" and dare I say it better city for it.

They are indeed. Peter Short who is based in Dundalk.

Rebs23, if you're thinking of founding a Cork seperatist movement you have my full support! :D

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Rebs23, if you're thinking of founding a Cork seperatist movement you have my full support! :D

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I think he is talking about a Dublin Separtist movement - separate it from the rest of the country! :p

I don't think irish people will vote for left or right parties as we seem to like the left & right of centre parties.

Politics has changed quiet a good deal in the last 15 years as almost nothing to fight for on social issues such as divorce, abortion etc...

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Originally Posted by pete

I don't think irish people will vote for left or right parties as we seem to like the left & right of centre parties.

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Thats all we've got Pete. Its like saying people don't want any different type of washing powder because they buy whats there. If there was something genuinely better on the market they might buy it.

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Thats all we've got Pete. Its like saying people don't want any different type of washing powder because they buy whats there. If there was something genuinely better on the market they might buy it.

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You wha? The market dictates whether it's politics or washing powder, as the Jam put it "The public gets what the public wants." To suggest otherwise is patronising guff.

KOH

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

You wha? The market dictates whether it's politics or washing powder, as the Jam put it "The public gets what the public wants." To suggest otherwise is patronising guff.

KOH

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The same song also inverts that line to "the public wants what the public gets", which was kind of my point.
If the "market" dictated everything, "marketing" and advertising would not be necessary. People are paid vast sums of money to convince people they want or need things. That goes for politics as well as washing powder.

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Originally Posted by The Jam

We talk and we talk until my head explodes
I turn on the news and my body froze
The braying sheep on my TV screen
Make this boy shout, make this boy scream!

Going underground, I'm going underground!

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Keep On Harpin'

[QUOTE=BohsPartisan;611735]The same song also inverts that line to "the public wants what the public gets", which was kind of my point.

Totally agree...indeed was surprised to see WAR use the line in the manner he did.

My own view is that I was extremely narked when Spring went in with FF, and Rabittes recent dithering is also anoying... I'll still give Labour my number but that will now be more based on the quality of their local candidate (Alex White) ....and my tenner is on us having a FF/Lab coalition in place after the election. If that comes to pass then I'll never again listen to anyone who moans about houseprices/the health system/congestion/inflation/childcare as by putting Bertie back in we are giving him and his cronies carte blanche to run the country for the benefit of the likes of the Bailey Brothers etc