Golden age of league football in the Republic?

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10/01/2007, 12:10 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Having been in Colman's a fair few times it's obvious that it couldnt hold 20,000. Wasnt aware that it was played in Flower Lodge as I dont pay too much attention to small clubs.

Yeah 20,000 for a home game in Cork is small. How many did Rovers get for theirs again?
10/01/2007, 12:13 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

Given the European exploits over the last few years I would say the last 3 years were the "Golden Age". Now it's heading back into the doldrums but will no doubt come back strong again soon.

It seems to be in cycles as suggested above. In league terms another Golden Age would be the Rovers era of the 80's IMO.

The golden rule of Golden Ages is that you can't declare one mid-process ! :)

You need quite a few years gap after it ends - as otherwise, how do you know it's actually ended yet...??

If the last 3 years has been a golden age for domestic football in Ireland, then to be fair we may as well all pack-up and go home ! A couple of decent European results does not constitute a golden age - particularly given the low level of crowds, administrative chaos, financial incompetence and atrocious media profile we've suffered alongside.

At best, the last few years may prove to be the very early stages of a golden age. But we won't know for many years if that has been the case or not.
10/01/2007, 12:23 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Yeah 20,000 for a home game in Cork is small. How many did Rovers get for theirs again?

That 20,000 was a one off as you well know.

KOH
10/01/2007, 12:44 PM
pete

Relatively speaking last 3-5 years have been best seasons for last 20-25 years. Before Derry joined the league attendances were worse than current ones. That says a lot about irish football.
10/01/2007, 2:43 PM
red bellied

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

That 20,000 was a one off as you well know.

KOH

No it wasnt because there was a bigger crowd for the next game in Flower Lodge and that was during the week, close on 30,000.
10/01/2007, 2:56 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by red bellied

No it wasnt because there was a bigger crowd for the next game in Flower Lodge and that was during the week, close on 30,000.

Yeah but what about the 20,000 in Cobh?!:p

KOH
10/01/2007, 2:59 PM
gspain

I was at the first game in Flower Lodge and there were about 20,000 there. My Dad was at the 2nd replay in the Lodge and the crowd was even bigger again. In both cases it included significant travelling support. Cobh had the first game won until Mick Graham conjured up an equaliser from nowhere at the death. The crowd for the international v spain 2 years later at the Lodge was much smaller.
11/01/2007, 7:56 AM
drinkfeckarse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

I don't see any particular reason that the league could be considered heading to the doldrums. Drogheda and Derry will be as strong if not stronger than last year and could carry on the LOI's recent European successes next year with the improved seeding taken into account. If Shels do get the European licence it'll be a bit of a setback for the league if they take their predicted beating but it'll hardly be the doldrums. After all, our most successful club Shamrock Rovers just escaped extinction and got relegated in this so called Golden Age of yours, so why should Shels demise be considered such a down turn?

Winding up orders, threats of administration, teams potentially going out of business, crowds on the wane again? That sounds like a case of the doldrums to me.

The fact is, in 20 years time Shels fans, Derry fans, Cork fans will be telling their kids of the fantastic days of winning leagues (Derry aside recently), winning cups and tremendous European runs and how great it all was for a time.

Sounds like a Golden Age to me.
11/01/2007, 9:10 AM
seand

"The fact is, in 20 years time Shels fans, Derry fans, Cork fans will be telling their kids of the fantastic days of winning leagues (Derry aside recently), winning cups and tremendous European runs and how great it all was for a time."

In the case of Shels fans that'll be in the same way that Drums and Cork Hibs fans are telling their kids about how great it was.
11/01/2007, 1:48 PM
Monkfish

Ya and we'll have AFC Limerick City United and Athlone Town battling it out for the league! Roll on 20 years
11/01/2007, 3:58 PM
pete

The League has not had good crowds for over 30 years. The league has always had clubs folding. The league has always had financial problems. We hardly a golden age but relative to the past we doing ok now.
11/01/2007, 5:09 PM
oriel

Listening to the matt cooper show on today fm a few weeks ago the author of that book 'who stole our game' summed up the state of irish football perfectly in my opinion.

the irish public will only turn out in consistent large numbers for occasional games for ANY sport. Take gaa for eg, one or two big games every sunday, counties on the way to the all ireland final will play no more than 6 games. Rugby ? 6 nations, max of 3 home games, maybe 3 other big profile games at the end of season. still only 6 games in total. Magners/Heinken cup - around 10 home games per year ?? I could be wrong here, but not far off. Even the Irish International football side, max 5 home games per year, the list goes on and on. little and often thats the key. (this is why the stupid idea of wimbeldon in dublin 10 years would have never worked)

Eircom lge = min 20 home games per year, this is our problem, we have no tradition of supporting a team for anymore than 4 or 5 big games, and god forbid if your team suffers a bad start to the season, (or suffers an end of season nosedive in form) you could see a 30 - 50% drop in crowds.

I take my hat off to fans of clubs in the old div 3 + 4 in england, they go week in/week out every week, pretty much same size crowds too, all between 5 + 10,000.

Now that IS whats called supporting your team
11/01/2007, 5:21 PM
passerrby

jumpers for goalposts ,mick leach, little boys holding hands with the parish priest, ah memories.
11/01/2007, 5:57 PM
BohDiddley

Quote:

Originally Posted by oriel

Listening to the matt cooper show on today fm a few weeks ago the author of that book 'who stole our game' summed up the state of irish football perfectly in my opinion.

the irish public will only turn out in consistent large numbers for occasional games for ANY sport. Take gaa for eg, one or two big games every sunday, counties on the way to the all ireland final will play no more than 6 games. Rugby ? 6 nations, max of 3 home games, maybe 3 other big profile games at the end of season. still only 6 games in total. Magners/Heinken cup - around 10 home games per year ?? I could be wrong here, but not far off. Even the Irish International football side, max 5 home games per year, the list goes on and on. little and often thats the key. (this is why the stupid idea of wimbeldon in dublin 10 years would have never worked)

Eircom lge = min 20 home games per year, this is our problem, we have no tradition of supporting a team for anymore than 4 or 5 big games, and god forbid if your team suffers a bad start to the season, (or suffers an end of season nosedive in form) you could see a 30 - 50% drop in crowds.

I take my hat off to fans of clubs in the old div 3 + 4 in england, they go week in/week out every week, pretty much same size crowds too, all between 5 + 10,000.

Now that IS whats called supporting your team

Good post.

Part of the problem with these state of the game discussions is that they tend to turn into nostalgia trips, then into an 'all is lost/might as well follow ManU' lament.

If we could forget about some illusory glorious past (apart from BFC victories of course); forget about trying to recapture 40,000+ attendances; stop interviewing bitter old moans who have an agenda, and start with modest targets for the future, such as building the habit of regular support, then we might go somewhere.

I think the model of the loyal lower division English fan who eschews the Premiership circus, or can follow both, is one worth looking at.
12/01/2007, 11:39 AM
WeAreRovers

Quote:

Originally Posted by oriel

Listening to the matt cooper show on today fm a few weeks ago the author of that book 'who stole our game' summed up the state of irish football perfectly in my opinion.

the irish public will only turn out in consistent large numbers for occasional games for ANY sport. Take gaa for eg, one or two big games every sunday, counties on the way to the all ireland final will play no more than 6 games. Rugby ? 6 nations, max of 3 home games, maybe 3 other big profile games at the end of season. still only 6 games in total. Magners/Heinken cup - around 10 home games per year ?? I could be wrong here, but not far off. Even the Irish International football side, max 5 home games per year, the list goes on and on. little and often thats the key. (this is why the stupid idea of wimbeldon in dublin 10 years would have never worked)

Eircom lge = min 20 home games per year, this is our problem, we have no tradition of supporting a team for anymore than 4 or 5 big games, and god forbid if your team suffers a bad start to the season, (or suffers an end of season nosedive in form) you could see a 30 - 50% drop in crowds.

I take my hat off to fans of clubs in the old div 3 + 4 in england, they go week in/week out every week, pretty much same size crowds too, all between 5 + 10,000.

Now that IS whats called supporting your team

Spot on Oriel.

As an example, I'm off to see Leinster tomorrow in a ground that is eircom League standard at best but some of the world's top players will be on show. I'll attend maybe 4 Leinster games this season - in our off-season - and that's pretty typical of an Irish sportsfan.

Leinster have done an amazing marketing job and have gone from attendances in the 100s (even in the professional era) to sell-outs in pretty quick time. We need to learn lessons from them as well as promoting the "hardcore" element of following a football team - something that no other sport in this country can offer.

KOH
14/01/2007, 2:03 PM
BohsFans

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Leinster have done an amazing marketing job and have gone from attendances in the 100s (even in the professional era) to sell-outs in pretty quick time. We need to learn lessons from them as well as promoting the "hardcore" element of following a football team - something that no other sport in this country can offer.

What have they done that's really that different?
14/01/2007, 3:49 PM
CollegeTillIDie

Liam 88

Since about 1960 the EL/League of Ireland has had three eras where clubs did well in European Club competitions. Shamrock Rovers were narrowly beaten by Bayern Munich in the mid 1960's, and Shelbourne had some respectable results in the early part of the decade.

Dundalk flew the flag briefly in the early 1980's with good results against Celtic and Spurs. UCD lost 1-0 on aggregate to eventual winners Everton in the European Cup winners Cup in 1984/85. And the same season Bohs lost by a single goal on aggregate to Glasgow Rangers and Rovers only lost on away goals to Linfield.

The next golden age has been the Noughties since 2000 Irish clubs ( bar Longford against the Welsh and Shels against the Maltese) have all got respectable results in Europe.

Soccerc you saw Rovers at Milltown the season they had to apply for re-election.

As regards crowds there has not been a golden age in my lifetime and I was born in the early 1960's. My own club saw it's crowds go down in 1983 when we were more successful than the season before because there were less goals at our games. We reduced our goals against by 40 goals in the season.
We won the Cup that year too. Although being drawn away from home in every round didn't help the attendances.
14/01/2007, 10:05 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Dundalk flew the flag briefly in the early 1980's with good results against Celtic and Spurs. UCD lost 1-0 on aggregate to eventual winners Everton in the European Cup winners Cup in 1984/85. And the same season Bohs lost by a single goal on aggregate to Glasgow Rangers and Rovers only lost on away goals to Linfield.

While your other points here may be valid, the league's only European elimination to a NI team isn't anything to particularly crow about.
14/01/2007, 10:19 PM
Aaron

IMO the past 6 years have been the best. Take away the clubs folding and threats of administration it hasnt been that bad. We've had Shels, Ours, Corks and Drogs european runs, Shels notably in the CL. The past two season the league has gone to the last day, something that rarely happens in football. We've had marvellous cup finals, big attendances at Cup Finals and Play-Offs. Things arnt as bad as they seem, and if the FAI decide they want to run the league in the correct manner then i dont see any reason why the league as a whole cant improve
14/01/2007, 11:21 PM
DmanDmythDledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by City till I Die

IMO the past 6 years have been the best. Take away the clubs folding and threats of administration it hasnt been that bad.

You can't just pretend that certain things didn't happen. That's like me saying if you don't count Shels, Derry etc UCD would have won the league this season.

Quote:

We've had Shels, Ours, Corks and Drogs european runs, Shels notably in the CL.

They aren't that good compared to other European results before, bar maybe Shels draw with Deporivo. See CTID's post for some examples.

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