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its not the GAAs duty to attempt to destroy one of our most famous football clubs by dragging them thru the courts indefinitely either but thats what they are doing out in tallaght. its questionable whether rovers bein out there will have any effect on them whatsoever. so why are they doing what they are doing?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
It's not about bringing anything new to it. It's about reporting the situation as is now to a infinitely larger audience until the situation as is now is known by everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
yeah likewise, im in shock, Dervan has just written a whole article that i agree with totally, wow, thats amazingQuote:
Originally Posted by manofthemoment
If a GAA man said that, they'd be a bigot. I've seen Dervan make this point a hundred times, that the Unionists on the 32 county Irish rugby team should accept Amhran na Bhfiann as their national anthem. That is the equivalent of a Unionist saying that nationalists on the NI soccer team should accept GSTQ as their national anthem.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
A soccer person blaming the GAA for Shamrock Rovers lack of a home is indeed ironic. There was me thinking previous owners sold Rovers' home to make some money in a real estate transaction!
I was also under the impression that the FAI were set to make more money from their games in Croke Park than in any previous games in their history. A sure example of the GAA trying to kill off soccer.
I was also under the impression that the GAA fougth the objections of the residents to get floodlights installed in Drumcondra. No easy task, if anyone knows the history of the residents objections. Forget about the Dublin Tyrone game, this was all for the benefit of the IRFU and FAI (even if government footed the bill - thought in reality IRFU and FAI can count themselves lucky not to have been sent a few invoices).
The whole training flare up is soley due to FAI whinging to the media. The Irish soccer team has been granted training sessions in Croke Park. It may not be the day they wanted but they have been granted it. Most GAA teams - county and club - never have had this courtesy before playing a big game in Croke Park.
One final point. Cathal Dervan is on record as saying that Glasgow Celtic are as Irish as any team on this island. Enough said. God****e end of story. Of course if Meath ever make a comeback he'll have us sickened about what a great Gah team they are.
I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooperatzi
As someone has already written, if a GAA journalist wrote an article like this about soccer, full of patronising, condescending and generalising rubbish like Dervan's, we'd be on here within minutes of its publication, ranting about how ridiculous it was. And his crowing about how soccer is now more popular than GAA is deserving of all of our contempt. But we're willing to accept similar rubbish when it's written in 'our' favour? That's poor form, I reckon.
What's happening out in Tallaght is shocking but it's important to remember that the legal challenge is being funded solely by one member of Thomas Davis GAA, not the six clubs together and certainly not the GAA. But the organisation is definitely playing it cute, seeing what happens before moving on it. I know two of those clubs well (not Thomas Davis) and there are some awful attitudes up there but what's interesting is those South Dublin clubs - like Ballyboden St. Endas - that didn't get involved.
Dublin GAA's Central Council hasn't given a penny towards it either. My impression of it is that the clubs are so powerful in south Dublin - Thomas Davis, St. Judes and Faughs are huge clubs - that they can't just be swatted away. If it was up to GAA HQ, the whole thing would be forgotten about, I reckon, it's more trouble than it's worth.
While I find the actions of Thomas Davis and the other south Dublin clubs involved to be disgusting, it will serve us well to remember that this is not a Shamrock Rovers stadium. Through the financial shenanigans of its owners a few years ago, they did themselves out of a stadium. The 400 Club are running it now and they're a great bunch of blokes that have been dealt a tough hand but that's the unfortunate reality of it - Rovers don't own the place. Thomas Davis have been opportunistic and leaked emails indicate the more sinister views of the guy that's backing the whole thing (his name is Dave Kennedy, by the way) but they're not muscling in on a Shamrock Rovers stadium. So while people might consider this a line in the sand, it will do them well to remember that Rovers are going to get this ground they don't own completed for free by the taxpayer. This is the vital difference between Tallaght and Croker.
Having said that, South Dublin County Council is adamant that this is a stadium for soccer, end of story. This has always been the case and this is also John O'Donoghue's position. But if the courts find in their favour - and I really hope that they don't, largely out of sympathy for Rovers fans and antipathy for the attitudes of the redneck element in the clubs that I'm familiar with - then what?
My point here is that bile should be directed at Thomas Davis and the five other clubs, whose agenda should certainly be questioned. This is not official GAA policy and is not being covertly dictated from Croke Park - this is a bunch of local clubs who fancy getting a southside Parnell Park.
Talk of 'lines in the sand' will get us nowhere, anyway. I'm sick of being told by hardcore soccer and GAA fans how difficult their lives are as a result of each other. It tends to be shielding the real problem, which is their own organisation.
A GAA perspective as posted on a well known Gaa site
Tallaght Stadium
A few facts about Tallaght Stadium. It is a Community Stadium to be paid for by the Government and South Dublin County Council therefore it should be open to all members of the community including the GAA Community. A full meeting of South Dublin County Council voted 27 to 1 in November 2005 to amend their plans to allow a GAA pitch be developed in Tallaght as part of the Stadium plans. They overturned this decision some months later on the instruction of the Minister for Sport John O’Donoghue who informed them that he would not supply funding if the GAA pitch was included in the Stadium plans. No reason was given for this by the Minister.
Thomas Davis are the named club taking the Court action. They are fully supported by Faughs, St Annes, St Judes, Croi Ró Naofa, St Kevins St Killians and St Marys. Dublin GAA Co. Committee (ie all the clubs in County Dublin) also voted unamously to support these clubs in their High Court action.
Shamrock Rovers FC have defaulted in the past on Tax and/or VAT payments and have actually been re-constituted to get around tax laws - why then should they be bank rolled by the State to cover the cost of "their" stadium.
Dublin Co Board have land in Rathcoole- the difference is that they purchased the land from the County Council unlike Rovers who are getting a state sponsored present of theirs. Part of the Rathcoole deal was that a road would be provided to the landlocked site by the Council. 12 years on and the South Dublin County Council have still failed to provide that road and the land continues to be inaccessable to the Dublin GAA County Board.
When the Lansdowne Road re-development was first planned the Minister Mr O Donoghue stated that it would be of demensions suitable for GAA games as well as the other codes. He has changed his mind on that without reason and is now refusing to allow GAA matches there. What is his problem with the GAA in Dublin???
It is galling to read and listen to FAI people talk as if they own Tallaght and indeed Lansdowne Road. It should be noted that up to now no national soccer association in Europe owns their own stadium. They depend on clubs or other codes (in Englands FA case a Code in another Country ie Wales RFU) to give them a home for their games. Why when GAA and Rugby have their own stadiums should we be blackmailed in the so-called national interest to give the FAI stadiums for nothing.
It should also be noted that the English Rugby Union when asked refused point blank to allow Twickenham be used by the English FA. Yet the GAA are abused for not jumping immediately to hand over the keys of Croke Park.
Committee Man , Dublin Ireland , 19/12/2006 at 16:26
Some more food for thought!
Not from the GAA side it is not.Quote:
It may not enter the world of some of our National side only fans, but CP is definitly a doubt from both ends from 08.
in fairness, benno its on about the same level as you write, so ye would have a good understanding and empathy. btw are you coming tonight?Quote:
yeah likewise, im in shock, Dervan has just written a whole article that i agree with totally, wow, thats amazing
I don't really know the ins and outs of it to be honest, it being what is happening in tallaght, but one thing is it does show hypocrisy, fair enough the g.a.a are letting soccer in croke park, and let soccer players use their facilities ( gym etc ) up and down the country, but on a larger scale they make a point of soccer being restricted in g.a.a grounds, so trying to share a pitch in tallaght does smack of hypocrisy. I think I read before that the GAA were backing Thomas Davis? If this is the case its worse, if not it might not have anything to do with the GAA as ye say, and maybe some small minded individuals in tallaght, or some big minded individuals in tallaght, who would like to share facilities with their sporting counter-parts. Either way, from a standing brief, a neutral point of view I think there is more to it than the one side we are seeing on foot.ie ( as always ) ;) ;) :)
What's happening in Tallaght is a seperate issue from from the rental agreement to use Croke Park. The FAI have nothing in contract about practice sessions for the home team outside of the usual pre-match day kick around. Nicky Brennan is not obliged to honour verbal promises made by his predecessor Séan Kelly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooperatzi
I dont know any details of the contract with Rovers or the political promises given to both sides to use the Tallaght pitch. But the mess that SRFC got into over the decades (without GAA intervention) is well documented. It's a pity they didn't take a few leaves out of the structure that Bohemians' members established decades ago.
The assets of all GAA clubs are constitutionally protected from the actions of speculators/vultures.
I hope Rovers get their ground, exclusive use - no question and outgrow it in a few years.
Apologies for the caps. AFAIK Rovers is owned by ordinary fans. surely people can see that its morally wrong for the GAA in tallaght to try and destroy a club that ordinary people(not millionaires) have taken out mortgages on to keep going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddladd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
There could well be an element of truth to that. It would certainly do them no harm. Parnell Park provides a perfectly viable and sustainable option for the Dubs League games at the moment and there is no need for a second venue to host the games. However - It won't stop them trying though.
The Tallaght situation is inexcusable and I hope Rovers prevail in the end as they approach 20 years homeless.
On the broader issue of FAI / GAA tensions - we'll have to bow to Cathal Dervans inspired clarion call to move the matches to Tolka Park. Damn their eyes - TO TOLKA!!
Dervan wagers we'll be watching Ireland in a completed Abbotstown in 5 years - if he has his way we'll be still at Tolka Park.
Muppet.
I have only ever gone to one rugby international in my life. It was against England last time. I was sitting beside an irish fan from the north, he stood and sang GSTQ (and i mean sang) and stood in slience for ANB. He then sang Irelands call loud and proud. We started to chat, I have/had a 50-50 scouse/irish accent and we started to talk about Liverpool etc and it turns out he visits Anfield (the area) for orange marchs and is a loyalist. I then asked him about supporting Ireland in rugby and the anthems. He told me that GSTQ is his anthem but the irish rugby team is a team for the island of ireland and he considers Ireland call the anthem for the team. I then asked him about going to games in Croker (IF rugby went there). He said he would prefer not to set foot in the place but he has gone to every ireland game for a long time and not going doesnt help the team and puts a smile of the their faces. He told me he will act the same as he does everywhere else, wear the same jersey but will be bringing a union jack to the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnyside Up
NO! They will make far less and the loss of friendlies will really hit them in the pocket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnyside Up
Sorry, I dont know where you get this from but its wrong. The residents in that area get treated like dirt by them and have no say in what gets built or goes on in the area. I have a friend who lived there for 1 year. On match days, you have to get a permit for the police to enter by the barriers if you are a resident. Also the GAA take no responsibility for anything their fans do outside the ground. Many many locals front gardens are used as toilets and for other purposes and nothing is ever done about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnyside Up
Also the residents NEVER get any tickets etc given as compo. Before any says it they get concert tickets but they are donated by the concert promoter not the GAA.
A few facts about Croke Park. It is a Community Stadium paid for by the Government and the tax-payer, therefore ........Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddladd
does he bring union jacks to landsdowne road, if not he is a ****-stirrer and should be barred from all ireland games of any kind. not that that will happen btw.Quote:
but will be bringing a union jack to the game.
thta sounds like a mutually exclusive-collectively exhaustive statement, that is so wrong ye dope. some was paid for by the government.....we have been through this before.Quote:
It is a Community Stadium paid for by the Government and the tax-payer, therefore ........
Finally bar friendlies the FAI ( per game that is ) will make more money.
Billsthoughts;its not the GAAs duty to attempt to destroy one of our most famous football clubs by dragging them thru the courts indefinitely either but thats what they are doing out in tallaght. its questionable whether rovers bein out there will have any effect on them whatsoever. so why are they doing what they are doing?
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i fail to see why the gaa could be held responsible for the reprehensible behaviour of a minority few in its voluntary organisation. is it the english fa's fault that english hooligans exist?
should the gaa come out and say that tallaght needs a large gaelic stadium, or should it stand up for the plight of rovers? clearly its not in a position to do either. it is a delicate situation that is only serving to provide an outlet for bigots to air their grievances about other codes, to the detriment of sport. the fraught history of sport on this fair isle looks, disappointingly, to be continuing as progress elsewhere continues apace
back to bill in the studio
well said kingdom.
I remember hearing that the GAA wanted to split the Dubs into North and South in the Championsh1t maybee they want Tallaght to be home to south DublinQuote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
Myth not fact. The GAA started the project on their own without any cast iron guarantees. They have received less for developing Croke Park than the IRFU/FAI will receive for the new Landsdowne rd.Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
Plus I think the point they are making is they own the ground on which the taxpayers footed part of the bill for redevelopment, as opposed to the SDCC owning the land in Tallaght.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Are you sure? I would guess the GAA have easiely received over 100m (off hand there was the 60m Bertie promised before getting cabinet approval, 3-4m for recent floodlights, payment for renting ground to the FAI/IRFU?) by now for Croke Park. AFAIK the FAI & IRFU are receiving 170m between them for Lansdowne Road which would be 85m each.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I would overall all 3 bodies on a par at this stage.
croke park, one stadium 100m
landsdowne road, one stadium 170m
i think that was the point being made
Amid all this discussion, everyone - including the GAA of course - is forgetting that the GAA have a prime site in every village and town in Ireland - many of which they now want to flog off for enormous profit - merely because the unholy trinity of the GAA, the Catholic church and the politicians ensured that the GAA got these sites, essentially for free, over the decades - while the "foreign" sports were banned to the wilderness.
Funny how the GAA always forgets where the ludicrous imbalance originally started.