The Ashes

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Originally Posted by osarusan

From a country which as a matter of course exports all its best players (cue insults from "real" EL fans who realize the El is not only the highest form of football, but also of life itself on this planet), I'm not sure I agree.

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A residency rule would correct that anomaly.

Ed Joyce contributed amply to domestic and international cricket in this country (even securing dispensation to represent the team at the ICC Trophy in 2005, when he was under no obligation to do so) and deserves his shot at Test cricket.

Likewise, the foreign-born nationals in the Irish cricket team (all contracted to Irish clubs) have also enriched the game here, helped develop its emerging talent, and earned the right to represent it internationally. They're not fly-by-night opportunists like those who proliferate in other sports.

Dont get me wrong, no objections to the cricket rule, as you say, enriching the game does help earn the right to represent the country.

I was just doubting the benefits from a football point of view.

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

He served a four-year residency period. No problem with that, should be the same in football.

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Can't agree, Ireland don't play test cricket so he has no choice if he wants to play at the highest level. In general residency rules make a mockery of international competition.

KOH

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Can't agree, Ireland don't play test cricket so he has no choice if he wants to play at the highest level. In general residency rules make a mockery of international competition.

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Not really, international competition is designed to determine the relative strength of particular sporting cultures (or, more specifically, the relevant governing association - in fact, until relatively recently, English touring parties were billed as MCC XIs.) If someone has made a genuine contribution to the sporting culture of a given nation or territory and been assimilated into it, he has every right to represent that territory.

Obviously players shouldn't be allowed to switch allegiances in a single-grade sport like football once they've played an international.

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Fair play to Joyce, hope he gets to do more than carry the drinks on.

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A fine republican you are.... ;)

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

Not really, international competition is designed to determine the relative strength of particular sporting cultures (or, more specifically, the relevant governing association - in fact, until relatively recently, English touring parties were billed as MCC XIs.) If someone has made a genuine contribution to the sporting culture of a given nation or territory and been assimilated into it, he has every right to represent that territory

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As happens regularly in continental Europe. Deco for Portugal being the leading example. I read a decent interview with him in 4-4-2 a while ago where they asked him why he decided to play for Portugal. He replied with something along the lines of "Portuguese football, and the country itself, has given so much to me that I thought it was my duty to give something back". Might sound bigheaded to some (the idiots who think he's not one of the best midfielders in the world probably...) but gives another angle on the nationality in sport debate.

For me, I've no issue with Carney representing GB at rugby league but the fact that Joyce can play against Ireland makes it fairly hard to support him at England. I totally understand his reasons for doing it though.


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Originally Posted by osarusan

From a country which as a matter of course exports all its best players (cue insults from "real" EL fans who realize the El is not only the highest form of football, but also of life itself on this planet), I'm not sure I agree.

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And yet you don't see the irony in el fans HAVING to fight for every little bit of respct/attention...

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Originally Posted by Dodge

A fine republican you are.... ;)

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Like that great republican Ernie O'Malley, I'm both an Anglophobe and an Anglophile. It ain't easy. ;)

KOH

Residency rule would kill football as rich european countries would entice players from poorer regions to their country so could serve their time before playing for the country.

Seems stupid rule to allow residency in cricket as will ensure its continued status as minority sport. Similarily rugby only allows the world powers to vote on World Cup venue. For all its failings at least football is somewhat democratic.

I'm sure i'll watch a bit of the Ashes if at reasonable time slot but no way I would watch 5 days of a Test.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

what can I say - I ENJOY CRICKET

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Is this why Lim till I die was banned:confused: :eek:

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Can't agree, Ireland don't play test cricket so he has no choice if he wants to play at the highest level. In general residency rules make a mockery of international competition.

KOH

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Ireland have qualified for the Cricket World Cup this coming summer for the first time... we have to play against England... With Ed Judas Joyce among their ranks? I wouldn't be so p1ssed off if we had not made the World Cup but the fact remains we qualified for it, he helped us, and now plays against us. That is worse than what happens to the likes of Samoa in Rugby at the hands of the All Blacks !:mad:

It is utterly disgraceful to call Ed Joyce a judas. The nearest test-playing nation is England, the rules state you can no longer be a one day player with one nation and test with another so he had to opt for the nation that plays test cricket in order to further his career.

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Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu

It is utterly disgraceful to call Ed Joyce a judas. The nearest test-playing nation is England, the rules state you can no longer be a one day player with one nation and test with another so he had to opt for the nation that plays test cricket in order to further his career.

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Abandoning your country before they play in a World Cup?... hmmm reminds me of someone else.... the timing stinks to say the least!

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

I play cricket and love watching it.

Strangely, the England cricket team is the only national English team I support. I don't like the Aussies and their arrogance and I hope England win:eek:

However, I expect the Australians to do them over with Warne and McGrath being the key players as ever.

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England's cricketers are actually easy to like, because they have nothing to be arrogant about , given their relative lack of success over the past decade and a half.

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Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Abandoning your country before they play in a World Cup?... hmmm reminds me of someone else.... the timing stinks to say the least!



England's cricketers are actually easy to like, because they have nothing to be arrogant about , given their relative lack of success over the past decade and a half.

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I've no problem with Ed declaring for England. We're a bit away from being nominated as a Test Country so he used the rules to live his dream.

I fear for us in the world cup as we're going to be playing on quick wickets and while we can cause the odd upset we're still in a learning curve at this level.

I actually have a lot of time for the English cricket team. It's amazing how many Irish people do in comparison to their views on their football team.
I can't stand the Aussies and their sledging or their general attitude when playing field games in particular.

Best thing about the Ashes is the trophy. Must be world smallest :)

I can't see England being able to beat the Australia over there. Also they will be weakened without Vaughan and Trescothick.

Is Flintoff the captain? Vaughan was a good captain but I doubt Flintoff would be as good a captain.

Also what's the story with Vaughan's injury? AFAIK he has been out for a while. When will he be back in acton?

Test cricket is far more important than the World Cup. As for 'abandoning your country just before' it that is well off the mark. His plan to declare for England was known and public for several years as he was awaiting permission to declare. In the meantime he opted to help Ireland reach the World Cup for the first time even though he knew he would be unable to play for us upon qualification.

[QUOTE=CollegeTillIDie;577394]Abandoning your country before they play in a World Cup?... hmmm reminds me of someone else.... the timing stinks to say the least!QUOTE]

Ed has been involved in te england set up since september last year when e finall qualified through residency having single handedly ensured our qualification at the icc championships, starting off in the A team before last summer receiving a call up to the one day squad for the games against sri lanka, ireland and pakistan it was simply the case that he happned to make his debut against ireland. noone involved in the game in ireland has any problems about this.

as regards te ashes england realistically have little to no chance, the world cup we'll need to be at our best but i do think we wont finish last in our group

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Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu

Test cricket is far more important than the World Cup

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To England and the Aussies maybe but Sri Lanka and India prefer the one day game and as the game gets bigger on TV, the one day game has become more and more important.

going to have to disagree with you there dodge the test match form of the game is still far more important in all countries. teams are not rated by their one day form but by their test form. i was in india recently and ad this discussion a few times the world cup is important but ot as huge an event as it should be.

As a nation of people we don't really care for cricket, myself included. That's no slight on the lads here interested in it. I don't see why Joyce should feel bound to represent a country that doesn't care much for the sport that play it at a lower level. I respect him as an Irish sportsman that can excel at the highest level in what is a minority sport here.

The fact that cricket isn't widely popular shouldn't be relevant on the point of whether Joyce was correct to opt to play for England. Up to recently I was President of a cricket club in Dublin and by and large most of the cricketing fraternity in this country support his move, not because they are all west-Brits but because they see it as the only way he can advance his career. Personally, I would prefer if he stuck with Ireland because as a nation how will cricket ever advance if our best players opt to play for England. That said, I don't have to earn a living playing cricket.

Anyone, see the re-run yesterday on SKy of the Sth Africa vs Australia one day game. Amazing. Australia hit a world record score of 434 off 50 overs and South Africa beat it off the second last ball with one wicket left. What a game.