Driver Penalty Points

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

Gods, ye love bandying that "carnage on our roads" line around, don't ye?

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I think it's a very apt description. No harm in using it.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

Speed doesn't kill, bad driving kills.

adam

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Bad driving could be something like not using an indicator changing lanes- that's a very general statement to make.

Almost all the accidents on roads are caused by speeding late at night, due to recklessness, drink driving etc. And speeding is bad driving.

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Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

And speeding is bad driving.

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Oh dear, I hear an old debate/circular argument coming again:D

Bad drivers speeding = bad driving - much like bad drivers changing lanes at the wrong time = bad driving. The problem is that there are a hell of a lot of very bad drivers who think they can drive and at speed

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what happens as a result..

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Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

Bad driving could be something like not using an indicator changing lanes

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Which could very easily cause "carnage". I've seen numerous accidents caused by frankly woeful lane changes.

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Almost all the accidents on roads are caused by speeding late at night

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Are they? That sounds like the kind of statement I hear on call-in shows, are there facts to back that up? I've certainly seen plenty of accidents on the road during the day.

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due to recklessness, drink driving etc. And speeding is bad driving.

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Inappropriate speeding is bad driving, yes. Speeding per se isn't. Illegal yes, bad driving maybe, depending on the driver, prevailing road conditions, etc.

Unless you think breaking the law is generally bad, and you've never broken the law ever. Which is perfectly acceptable, and something you're entitled to do. I don't have to agree with it though. ;)

I don't want to get into a discussion on me personally in this thread btw, despite BohsPartisan's attempts. If you want to debate the point, debate the point, not me personally.

adam

The points system is a massive failure no doubt.

I have never seen a speed check in an actual dangerous location. Its taken the government years to realise that dedicated cameras at black spots might be something to consider.

By & large irish people are terrible drivers, can't drive on motorways, can;t change lanes, can't indicate etc etc... Bad driving is due to crap training & almost zero enforcement of even the most basic rules of the road. Bad draiving frustrates other drivers & makes then bad drivers.

I can't argue about implementation, but I do think the points themselves are an effective detterent pete. They've certainly slowed me down, much to my annoyance.

adam

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

I can't argue about implementation, but I do think the points themselves are an effective detterent pete.

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I know what you saying but i believe introduction & implementation go hand in hand. Its easy to add laws with effective implementation & without dragging off topic does sum up the current government attitude in many ways.

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Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

Bad driving could be something like not using an indicator changing lanes- that's a very general statement to make.

Almost all the accidents on roads are caused by speeding late at night, due to recklessness, drink driving etc. And speeding is bad driving.

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Wait until you start driving - there's nothing more annoying idiots who don't know how to signal at a roundabout; you pull out in front of them because they're clearly pointing one way when in fact they're not going that way at all.

I think 29% of all crashes are between 9pm and 3am (was in the Irish Times last week, as I recall). Which is 25% of the day. Granted, the time of the day when there ought to be least driving, but still far from "almost all"

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think 29% of all crashes are between 9pm and 3am (was in the Irish Times last week, as I recall). Which is 25% of the day. Granted, the time of the day when there ought to be least driving, but still far from "almost all"

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Like the hilarious statistic that 40% of absenteeism happens on Mondays and Fridays. :D

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Originally Posted by pete

I know what you saying but i believe introduction & implementation go hand in hand. Its easy to add laws with effective implementation & without dragging off topic does sum up the current government attitude in many ways.

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True pete, it should be end-to-end. As you suggest yourself, the current administration wouldn't recognise an end-to-end policy if it came up and bit them on the arse.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

I can't argue about implementation, but I do think the points themselves are an effective detterent pete.

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They are an effective detterent - as seen by the drops in road deaths when first introduced and when the offences were extended. Unfortunately it was never followed up with the implementation. Big fan fares from Brennan and then Cullen, 2 months drop, and then death rate went back to normal when old habits came back when people still copped on to very low chance of being caught. Same happened when random breath testing was introduced and people thought there'd be cops outside every village.