Germans = Overrated

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Originally Posted by Reality Bites

What a Stupid thread, The Germans brand of fast attacking football made them the one of the best sides in the World Cup, they were good to watch and will cause us a World of Pain in stuttgart if they maintain the same momentum, Judging by this Forum i can clearly see despite our dismal failures the rosr tinted glasses have not gone away,, remember our midfield is as weak as water!

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Yes and we only lost out by a single goal to the eventual WC finalists.
I think from your comments you are definitely of the glass half empty type.
Ireland have problems. They had problems in the last campaign yet still came within a goal of finishing in the top 2. A lot of the problems we had were to do with tactics and attitude set out by the manager. A lot of the players did not play to their potential in the last campaign.
The optimism that I and some other people have is based on players playing closer to their best and with a more attacking and fearless attitude. And also with a manager who (I hope) will play a formation and tactics that suit the team.
In short if we play with the same attitude that the German team had in the world cup we will do well and stand a chance in this group.

The other point is that while Germany performed well in the WC there are still areas we can look at to exploit. Firstly they may suffer from a WC hangover. They have put a lot of effort and passion into the WC. The hype and enthusiasm of the fans may die down. Also, the pressure will be on them to beat this Irish side. How will they handle this? Remember before the WC their results were not very good and some were even calling for Klinnsmanns head.

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Originally Posted by DotTV

hopefully Keane and Doyler can do the business up front.

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Personally, I'd still go with Morrisson unless Doyle makes a compelling case in his early games in the Premiership or against Holland.

If Morrisson can play anything like he did in Paris before he got injured he'll be a real asset. Doyle barely figured against Sweden I thought and only got a few good flicks in against Chile. I'm hesitant to rate his performance against Chile though because midfield failed so badly no forward would have got a sniff.

I'd be more inclined to use Doyle off the bench. Let Morrisson run his socks off for 60 minutes then bring on a fresh, enthusiastic Doyle.

Good use of the bench this time around would make a marked contrast to the last few campaigns, including the successful WC02 campaign.

fully agree stuttgart , clinto is the man in possession. heres hoping doyle explodes into action in the premiership and pushes his way in. I agree with everyone here who thinks that we have cause for cautious optimism going into the game

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Originally Posted by PaulB

Agreed, and for the record I don't think Duff would get in their squad. Hasn't played consistently well in over a year. Finnan and Given would get in, thats it

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are you shteaming??? their centre back, mertzacher, has hardly played football at all, and your telling me that damien duff would not make their squad. he would make their side, hands down. I would also like to mention robert huth, the chelsea reserve who is a regular german international. you seem to forget robbie keane also, one of the best strikers in the premiership. better than neuville and podolski, and probably better than klose. s.reid is another who would be likely to make their squad, if he was english there would have been all kinds of clamouring for him to be in their squad, at the expense of someone like jenas.

if you are going to post, maybe you should construct the post better. ending it with "thats it" doesn't really give many people an idea of why other players wouldn't make their national squad.

Doyle had a much better season than Morrison last year and I think he deserves a chance.
We all know what Morrison is capable of and to be honest its not much.He doesn't link that well with Keane and what we need up front is someone who can get the best out of Robbie.
Maybe that won't be Doyle but hopefully the Holland game will give us an idea.

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Originally Posted by livehead1

are you shteaming??? their centre back, mertzacher, has hardly played football at all, and your telling me that damien duff would not make their squad.

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74 Bundesliga games and 29 caps at 21 is "hardly having played football at all?

If you mean Metzelder, he´s been unlucky with his injuries and almost didn´t play for 2 years from 2003 to 2005.

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I would also like to mention robert huth, the chelsea reserve who is a regular german international.

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He´s a regular squad member, but no means a regular international. It´s not like Chelsea don´t have other options and they have 2 half decent center halves in John Terry and Ricardo Carvalho. And then there´s William Gallas ... it´s hard to beat out that kind of competition at his age, although I view Huth as a center forward myself.

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you seem to forget robbie keane also, one of the best strikers in the premiership. better than neuville and podolski, and probably better than klose.

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Podolski is 21 and the sky is the limit for him. And I reckon Klose´s record speaks for itself.

If you´re going to analyze this team, you shouldn´t base it on seven World Cup matches, but you should rather go and watch the players at their clubs.

Jens, don't be fooled; this thread epitomises blind Irish optimism at its very best... :)

(maybe I can lull him into a false sense of security... ;) )

:ball: PP

Only Oliver Kahn and Jens Nowotny have retired from the 2006 World Cup squad, a team that is 3rd best in the World. Underrate them at your peril! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

Jens, don't be fooled; this thread epitomises blind Irish optimism at its very best...

(maybe I can lull him into a false sense of security...

:ball: PP

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A draw is entirely possible and if it was up to me I´d just cancel the games and put Germany first and Ireland second :) Ok, I wouldn´t cancel the games against youse as I´m really looking forward to having a beer with some Ireland fans here and in Dublin.

I´m not underrating the Irish team by any means, but I´ve always had the feeling that Robbie Keane is somehow wasting his talent and could be a much better player. Maybe I just played the old CM too much when Robbie Keane regularly bagged 50 goals a season for me. :)

An Irish friend of mine summed it up pretty well when he said "Robbie Keane is a scorer of great goals, but not a great goalscorer"

If you want to qualify for Switzerland/Austria the key isn´t getting points off the "top teams" like us or the Czech Republic, but rather beating the likes of Wales, Slovakia, Cyprus ... Ireland have a good chance to qualify, and I hope you do, but obviously not at our expense. Our record of never having failed to qualify for a tournament has to be preserved and I´ve never been as excited about a German team as right now as the team is really young.

When you look at the age of some players in the Czech WC Squad (Poborsky, Nedved, Koller, Galasek) I think you´ve got a very good to chance to get a draw away and beat them at Landsdowne/Croke Park.

I actually do own an Ireland top from around 2002/2003

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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba

With the dust settling now on the WC and the eyes of the nation looking to forward to the Euro qualifiers thought I'd throw in my tuppence worth on our chances in Germany...

Basically it needn't be all doom and gloom for Stuttgart cause I honestly believe that the Germans flattered to deceive in this World Cup:

Starting with the defence:
Lehmann is ok but still liable to a few clangers and he ain't getting any younger, CB's Mertezacher (sp??) and Metzelder well known to be dodgy - let Keane and Doyle have free run at these guys and we could get some joy, Lahm is handy enough but is nowhere near as good as people crack him up to be - has absolutely no left foot for a left-full and always has to cut inside,Finnan will have him in his pocket going forward...Can't even remember who the RB is!!!

In Midfield, for Lahm read Schweinsteiger - Often flatters to deceive and again has no left foot for a left winger - very overrated. Frings = plodder, nothing to fear there. Ballack - obviously class but am hoping the Chelsea factor kicks in and he loses some of his attacking spark. Schneider is a distinctly average player that offer no kind of attacking threat for a winger, no worries there...

Its up front that we should be a wee bit worried. Klose has proven his class and is the main threat in this German side, if Richie Dunne keeps him quiet then I fancy us getting a clean sheet...
I'm unsure about Podolski, sometimes he looks very lively and dangerous but has a tendency to drift in and out of the game...

Obviously I'm really just basing this on watching them during the WC but, along with Klinnsmann leaving, I think that they may be there for the taking...provided we put in a performance on par with France away in '04...


Feel free to comment/ridicule as necessary:)

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yeah i agree
germany are a team looking for a good beating, Robbie against that defence, no problem
the only decent players they have are Lahm, who had a cracking World CUp, even if (as you pointed out) he cant cross it with his left foot, so easy to close down then for a good defender (do we have one?)
I like frings, he is a good midfield worker, but ballack is over rated, did ye notic the way he pulled out of tackles in the italy game? result...a corner, and a goal for italy, what a lazy *******
that sweistenger is rubbish, so much promise after his good show in the Euors, but he was generally awful in all the games bar the last one
podolski is useless, wouldnt ir shouldnt trouble us, but Klose could be a danger but is easy enough to mark out of a game
no, i would be very dissapointed if we dont get a result in germany

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Originally Posted by youngirish

It amazes me that if Germany are so distinctly average with so many predictable and average to poor players how they almost succeeded in winning the World Cup playing against and beating some of the best teams in the world.

Optimism is all very well but some of the comments here are bordering on pure fantasy. We'll be very, very lucky to get a draw against Germany in September full stop. For all their supposedly average players only Duff and Given (possibly Finnan) would get a look into their first eleven if all our players were German (or Poles as the case may be).

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you might not have noticed but int football is dead easy to win these days,
Korea were the 4 best team in 2002?
portugal?
int football is for the heart, club football for the head

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Originally Posted by Jens1893

An Irish friend of mine summed it up pretty well when he said "Robbie Keane is a scorer of great goals, but not a great goalscorer"

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Yes & no. In fact a proper analysis would go deeper than that. He's actually become much more of a typical predator in the last season or so. His goals against Sunderland and Arsenal were good examples. British TV analysts highlighted the cleverness of the way he loses his marker and attacks the vacant space in front of goal. The key here is that these guys were relatively impartial & had no reason to talk him up. In fact, they did so to highlight a flaw in Jermaine Defoe's game.

But Robbie is far more than just a goalscorer. Look at someone like Michael Owen and what he contributes to a game (i.e., nothing) and contrast it to Robbie. Robbie is involved in everything and according to defenders in the Premiership is a handful to mark. It's a bit like Thierry Henry - he can definitely be far more clinical in front of goal but it's not just his goals that add value to the team. If Robbie can reproduce for Ireland the form he showed since Christmas for Spurs then it's happy days. Ireland's problem is that we rarely threaten goals from midfield. If more people shared the goalscoring burden then we'd be less critical of Robbie.

I think Robbie played fewer games but got the same number of goals as Rooney this season. I can think of a few games later in the season where with a bit more luck (OK, or a bit better finishing :)) Robbie could have added half a dozen goals to his tally.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

It amazes me that if Germany are so distinctly average with so many predictable and average to poor players how they almost succeeded in winning the World Cup playing against and beating some of the best teams in the world.

Optimism is all very well but some of the comments here are bordering on pure fantasy. We'll be very, very lucky to get a draw against Germany in September full stop. For all their supposedly average players only Duff and Given (possibly Finnan) would get a look into their first eleven if all our players were German (or Poles as the case may be).

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I hope you're taking the p!ss here, its nothing new a team playing above all expectations to do well in a WC...see Bulgaria 94, Croatia 98, South Korea 02 and even ourselves in 1990...you're making out that Germany are unbeatable without even giving any explanations as to why. As already stated on this thread the whole world cup euphoria will have long since passed, they now have a new coach who may not get the best out of them as Klinsmann did and there's also the fact that there will probably be 10000 Irish fans over there (including myself!!:) )creating an atmosphere like no other.

I know that we are no world-beaters ourselves but the worst thing that we can do is approach this game with the attitude of "wow these guys are world cup semi-finalists, wouldn't it be great if we got a draw"....We must approach this game positively and set the tone for the campaign from the off...

Lad's Ireland have a chance but if your to be honest a fairly small chance of getting anything from the German game if we go on recent past form. I'd say our chances of a win are slim to nothing. If you're that confident go down to the bookies and stick a few bob on the Irish win. You'll get very good odds.

Let's look at this realistically. Frings and Ballack will tear our midfield to shreds. Our best central midfielder is Reid and he's an average (maybe slightly above average) premiership player that only established himself in the first team for Blackburn late last year so to suggest we'll have much joy in that area is pure dellusional nonsense.

Podolski and Klose are capable of tearing Dunne and O'Brien to pieces. O'Brien is very very average at best and Dunne always can be counted on to f**k up at the most inappropriate times. We should have better luck down the flanks and hopefully Doyle and Keane can strike up a partnership that can test the slightly dodgy German central defence.

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Originally Posted by livehead1

are you shteaming??? their centre back, mertzacher, has hardly played football at all, and your telling me that damien duff would not make their squad. he would make their side, hands down. I would also like to mention robert huth, the chelsea reserve who is a regular german international. you seem to forget robbie keane also, one of the best strikers in the premiership. better than neuville and podolski, and probably better than klose. s.reid is another who would be likely to make their squad, if he was english there would have been all kinds of clamouring for him to be in their squad, at the expense of someone like jenas.

if you are going to post, maybe you should construct the post better. ending it with "thats it" doesn't really give many people an idea of why other players wouldn't make their national squad.

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Robbie keane was getting slaughtered on this forum a year ago, and now he's better than Klose, get your head out of your arse.... As for Huth, Ok didn't play regular for Chelsea, but he was only a squad member with the Germans. So who else would make their squad, I don't want to go thru the Irish squad 1 by 1 explaining the reasons why x won't get in, but I think based on current form, Finnan, Given, Keane would make the squad, with only Finnan a definite starter.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Watch thos Blasphemous words Donal81, or I'll send the Bomber Liston round after ya!

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The bloke is well into his 50s, I'm sure, and that's still a fearsome threat! They needed him at the weekend, that's for sure.

If you're consistently successful, people's expectations of you are raised. So, like Kerry, Germany do well in most tournaments but yet people bang on about them being rubbish, overrated, etc. Player for player, a very good Irish team might come close to matching up. As a sum greater than its parts, the German team leaves us floundering. We'll have to pull out a magnificent performance - one that is long, long, long overdue - to get a good result against them this autumn.

People shouldn't take to much notice of Germany's WC performance. Portugal was the only good side they beat and that was only in the third place playoff.

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Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

People shouldn't take to much notice of Germany's WC performance. Portugal was the only good side they beat and that was only in the third place playoff.

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They bet argentina,albeit on penos,and were unlucky against italy.They weren't outstanding but deserve more credit than they got because they work hard for eachother unlike a lot of teams.

PaulB - don't be silly. I doubt there's one international squad in the world that Duff would fail to get into.

I think Germany are strong in central midfield and upfront and we haven't exactly got world class players to stop them in those positions. Judging by the bits I've seen of Odonker I don't rate him in the least and I don't rate Scheider too highly either. Schweinsteiger can blow hot and cold and thankfully he's up against Finnan. I think Duff is the key for us going forward as Germany are weakest down the right.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

PaulB - don't be silly. I doubt there's one international squad in the world that Duff would fail to get into.

I think Germany are strong in central midfield and upfront and we haven't exactly got world class players to stop them in those positions. Judging by the bits I've seen of Odonker I don't rate him in the least and I don't rate Scheider too highly either. Schweinsteiger can blow hot and cold and thankfully he's up against Finnan. I think Duff is the key for us going forward as Germany are weakest down the right.

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At his best I'd agree, I was basing it on his performances over the past year..