Euro 2008/future

O'Shea has buckets of talent but I really think he's lacking mentally, be it belief, or concentration or whatever. I've generally been very supportive of him but it really is time for him to remove any doubts & he's been doing anything but. He has all the physical attributes & the passing range, but not a central midfielder's instinct or awareness. But as Robson says, if he just learns to do things simply...

I do share Colster's optimism in several respects though. In fact I'm looking at Japan vs Australia live at work at the moment & I really think we're better than both. Australia exhibit none of the flair you expect from a Hiddink side and play a very direct Ango-saxon game ( though as I type they have just equalised & now Cahill has just scored a 89th minute belter & now a solo third goal too!!).

Aiden McGeady would have a field day down Australia's left side which has been wide open a few times. Robbie Keane has far more to offer than many forwars I've seen in this tournament.

Just look at how Robben flourishes away from Mourinho's control-freakery. I think Duff would do the same.

There was a whole cocktail of reasons why we've been underperforming. Lack of a winning mentality, too much respect for the opposition, Robbie Keane not being match fit prior to any key game, Finnan not being favoured, sub-standard midfield in terms of creativity and so on. Some of this can be put rigfht immediately & despite Chile I think Staunton & Robson can get this lot to improve.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Just look at how Robben flourishes away from Mourinho's control-freakery. I think Duff would do the same.

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Ditto Essien againt Italy, showed a far greater range of skills than the usual terminator role he plays for Chelsea. Long passes, tackles, and if he had his shooting boots on he could have a had a hat trick. I think the form of Robben and Essien, never mind Lampard, could show what Mourinho is doing to these players, and why Duff should get out of there ASAP

The Czechs were hugely impressive last nite albeit against a poor US side, I shudder to think what Rosicky will do to the Irish Midfield in the Autumn. I think we are in for a rough ride with these qualifiers perhaps our worst in years!

The so called demise of the Czech team is great exaggerated, they were brilliant yesterday. Clinical, well organized, Bruckner's tactics were perfect against the US. The US are not as bad as they looked yesterday as the early goal more or less finished them off. Plus they didnt even have Baros and Koller(for most of the game).

Even if Nedved retires after the WC, they still have a lot of quality in the team.

I have to say I honestly believe that the US are shocking. Yes the Czechs were very good but I would rate the US as being in the bottom 8 sides in the tournament..... It will be hard - we need to find our starting team

I hope/dream that Andy Reid will lose about 2 stone this summer and S Reid goes to Spurs - that could work very very well in our favour.

There are also rumours of Duff going there - being a Liverpool fan I would prefer us to buy him, but for an Ireland point of view - it would be nice to have 3 midfielders at spurs

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Originally Posted by concanta

......but for an Ireland point of view - it would be nice to have 3 midfielders at spurs

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It would be good to have one midfielder playing regularly at Spurs.

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Originally Posted by colster

IMO The team below would beat that team.

Given

Carr Dunne O'Brien Finnan

McGeady S.Reid O'Shea Duff

Doyle Keane.

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Given - Top Class
Carr - Eternally injured and never performs for Ireland. Can't be relied on.
Dunne - Steady but prone to mistakes.
O'Brien - Prone to mistakes. No pace. The new Gary Breen.
Finnan - Great player, but no good to us if he's constantly played out of position. Left back? Should be ahead of Carr at RB everytime.
McGeady - Has potential, but that's all at this stage. Not convinced by him.
S.Reid. - Should stay put at Rovers cos Martin Jol doesn't know his @rse from his elbow. Could easily end up warming the bench there. Bit of a headless chicken for Ireland without an experienced player alongside him.
O'Shea - Sweet mother of Jesus........
Duff - Needs to move from Chelsea and Jose's poisonous football, and fast. A shadow of his former self, and not getting any younger.
Doyle - Potential. We'll see how good he really is next season. Still behind Morrisson and Elliott IMO.
Keane - He's fine as long as he's flavour of the month at Spurs, otherwise forget about it. As I said about Jol........And he'll have Berbatov to contend with next season.

Just to add - If we're depending on John O'Shea to pull the strings in our midfield we're in serious trouble. Steven Reid is a bit of a headless chicken, but in a good way because it's all energy and aggression. O'Shea is a headless chicken because he's brainless. His decision making is bland, and as a result his passing is bland and his influence on the game is minimal at best. Pairing O'Shea with Reid is a recipe for disaster. Especially when we have a defence with no pace behind them.

What we can hope for is that some of our potential young players step up a level next season, some new players come on the scene and that our existing players like Andy Reid move and get some first team football.

4tothefloor - You're glass is certainly half empty. Why did you try to find the negatives in all the players you mentioned? I'm suprised you didn't comment on Givens kickouts.

Staunton has some really good players to build around in Given, Finnan, Dunne, Duff, Reid and Keane. As good as the 6 best Czech players that'll travel to Dublin in October if you ask me. They're weaker players are just not that weak though.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Keane - He's fine as long as he's flavour of the month at Spurs, otherwise forget about it. As I said about Jol........And he'll have Berbatov to contend with next season.

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No time to go through all of the whining here but one point is that Robbie wont be competing with Berbatov, who is a replacement for Mido in the big guy role. If, as is thought Jermaine Defoe moves on he may have less competition

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Given - Top Class
Carr - Eternally injured and never performs for Ireland. Can't be relied on.
Dunne - Steady but prone to mistakes.
O'Brien - Prone to mistakes. No pace. The new Gary Breen.
Finnan - Great player, but no good to us if he's constantly played out of position. Left back? Should be ahead of Carr at RB everytime.

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Firstly, that back 5 is better than the one we had in the 2002 World Cup. It has more pace than the 2002 world cup and a better left back. Dunne is quick, good in the air, strong and a decent passer of the ball. O'Brien is better than Breen. It is a pretty solid defence.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

McGeady - Has potential, but that's all at this stage. Not convinced by him.
S.Reid. - Should stay put at Rovers cos Martin Jol doesn't know his @rse from his elbow. Could easily end up warming the bench there. Bit of a headless chicken for Ireland without an experienced player alongside him.
O'Shea - Sweet mother of Jesus........
Duff - Needs to move from Chelsea and Jose's poisonous football, and fast. A shadow of his former self, and not getting any younger.

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The wingers are better than 2002. Duff and MacGeady v Kelly and Kilbane no contest!!! Central Midfield is debatable but I feel that O'Shea and Reid have potential. O'Shea needs to concentrate on defence and making simple passes and let others give the attacking impetus. I think Reid, McGeady, Duff and Keane can give us that impetus.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Doyle - Potential. We'll see how good he really is next season. Still behind Morrisson and Elliott IMO.
Keane - He's fine as long as he's flavour of the month at Spurs, otherwise forget about it. As I said about Jol........And he'll have Berbatov to contend with next season.

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I like Doyle. He has a bit more about him than the other 2.
Keane has matured into a very good player. He no longer tries to take every one on and has become a better and more intelligent passer of the ball.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Just to add - If we're depending on John O'Shea to pull the strings in our midfield we're in serious trouble. Steven Reid is a bit of a headless chicken, but in a good way because it's all energy and aggression. O'Shea is a headless chicken because he's brainless. His decision making is bland, and as a result his passing is bland and his influence on the game is minimal at best. Pairing O'Shea with Reid is a recipe for disaster. Especially when we have a defence with no pace behind them.

What we can hope for is that some of our potential young players step up a level next season, some new players come on the scene and that our existing players like Andy Reid move and get some first team football.

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I'm not suggestinng that O'Shea become the play maker. I see him as the destroyer. Reid gives us energy from box to box and is a threat from long distance and in the air. I think they'll do with support from Kavanagh, A.Reid, Miller and the younger players like Ireland, Garvan and O'Brien hopefully making the step up.

We do have some really good players that is true - but the problem is that in any team Centre Midfield is probably the most important area of the team and that is where we are weakest by a mile! Keane and Holland have just retired so the next twelve months will be real test for Staunton. If he can sort out the centre of our midfield even adequately we'll have a good chance in next season's Euro qualifiers

Steven Reid is going on to be the best box to box player we've had in a long time imo. John O'Shea doesn't do him justice. Stick Kav in beside him for the time being and they'd form a formidable partnership.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Steven Reid is going on to be the best box to box player we've had in a long time imo. John O'Shea doesn't do him justice. Stick Kav in beside him for the time being and they'd form a formidable partnership.

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Not entirely convinced by Kavanagh. He doesn't have the mobillity and not great defensively against stronger opposition. He is a lot better than OShea at shapinng a game and might be better used against weaker opposition. Against the likes of the Czechs and Germany we may have to use a more defensive midfielder which is where the likes of O'Shea comes in.

Having said that, who knows maybe the likes of Ireland, O Brien, or Garvan will make a big statement next season and make the position their own.

Agree with you about Steven Reid - but his is just potential right now ... fingers crossed he will come in and perform well. I think it might also be worth looking at moving someone like Duff who we all know is exceptionally talented into the middle to play alongside him. I don't think Kavanagh or O'Shea are good enough tbh

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Originally Posted by Emmet

Agree with you about Steven Reid - but his is just potential right now ... fingers crossed he will come in and perform well. I think it might also be worth looking at moving someone like Duff who we all know is exceptionally talented into the middle to play alongside him.

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That's more attacking than Sven's midfield. ;)

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Originally Posted by colster

Against the likes of the Czechs and Germany we may have to use a more defensive midfielder which is where the likes of O'Shea comes in.

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That attitude is the reason we don't qualify for tournaments. We need to produce a result, ie. beating one of the top teams, if we are to qualify for the Euros. We are always defensive and are rubbish at it. We need to take a leaf out of Israel and Switzerlands book and actually have a go in the crunch games of the qualifiers. Otherwise we'll be watching it on tv again.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

We are always defensive and are rubbish at it. We need to take a leaf out of Israel and Switzerlands book and actually have a go in the crunch games of the qualifiers.

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Which one of the big teams did Israel and Switzerland beat in the last qualifiers? :confused: Israel were never ahead in their games, and Switzerland are one of the luckiest sides in football, ffs. Switzerland lost to France and Ireland on away goals, Turkey lost to them on away goals after scoring 4 times. We could, and should have qualified, and even though we didn't play well, we never got any lucky breaks, that the Swiss got. If we had scored at Lansdowne against them, the situation now would have been reversed.

At home yes, but I think a draw away from home would be an excellent result.

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

Well so much for all the Czech-lovers on here . . . they were made to look dog average tonight by Ghana. Anyone else think we can turn them over?

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I reckon theitalians will turn them over too and we should get 3 points at home in October.

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

Well so much for all the Czech-lovers on here . . . they were made to look dog average tonight by Ghana. Anyone else think we can turn them over?

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Couldn't agree more. I've always thought if we can sort ourselves out we can get out of the group. Possibly top it. Germany and the Czechs are okay teams, you'd expect them to be well organised and to put up a fight but neither are what they were. A few good players but they're hardly top notch. How the Czech Republic are 2nd in the world has always amazed me.