Great result For Scotland, Strachan out of order though in my view.

[QUOTE=Poor Student]I think the decision damages McManus and Marshall a lot more than Maloney. Maloney is one of the most, if not the most talented Scottish player around.



I think they are Scotland's hottest young talents along with Webster, Gordon and a few of the Hibs lads. I think they should all hope to figure regularly within a year.



Celtic pay the player's wages though Neil.


I think the last comments is true however. If that is the argument for every international game then where is the future of international football. Maybe I am biased cause I love international football and I really only watch club football in order to check on the progress of those for international football so my bias is there. I think the integrity fo international football should be kept.

If Celtic are allowed to pull players out of an international squad why should other clubs not be allowed to do it also. Scotland would have been then left with non entity of a team Also Strachans line that if Walter Smith insisted that they should he would have let them go is rubbish. Smith was in no position to insist as it was a friendly and not a competitive game.

The old firm clubs are not too popular with the Tartan Army as it is and this does not help. This is for many reason but mainly due to the fact that many Celtic fans do not support Scotland but support Ireland and many Rangers fans support England instead of Scotland. I have been told of cases of Scotland fans getting physically and verbally abused by residents of Glasgow from boths sides of the footballing divded due to the fact they are wearing Scotland jerseys on the way to a home game. This is mind boggling to get abuse for supporting your own in your own country. The thoughts of that happening in Dublin woudl sicken me. I think Strachans are not helpful in this context. By the way I am not blaming Strachan for this viewpoint been held by the Old Firm supporters.

I think it's well known that Strachan and Stan Petrov are not geting on and in pulling him out of the Bulgarian squad, he also pulled the other three out of the Scottish panel. Maybe he's being pig headed on the Petrov issue but he has already said the team are a bit light and maybe inexperienced for the Champions League next season. I know they were only testimonials but it did give the likes of Maloney and especially McManus, Wilson etc some sort of (limited) experience of playing games out of Scotland in decent atmospheres instead of trekking half-way across the world

Come are you trying to say that playing Man Utd and newcastle in testimonials is any preparation for Champions League. You must be having a laugh.

Internatinonal managers get very little time with their players to work on set pieces tactics, team morale etc. That is why any time you get with the players is important in my view. Its one of the reason I am fully behind Staunton taking the players to Portugal for that purpose. Club managers are working with their players week in week out. If Ferguson can let Fletcher go to Japan instead of playing in Keanes testimonial why cant Strachan do the same with is players.

In my view it was a 2 fingers to the SFA for not giving him the job. He was letting the fact that he did not get the job in the way in my view.

Maybe. I'm all for people playing for their country and it used to really peeve me off when club managers complained about, for example Nobby Solano lining out for Peru. But from Strachan's point of view, letting his better young players go to Japan to play Bulgaria is a totally lose-lose situation. And i only mentioned the testimonials as it was something Strachan himself brought up. Basically, I think he used that as back up if you know what i mean

Well if it is a lose lose situation for the club, why should Rangers FC have to let their players go like Boyd and Burke or Man Utd have to let Ferguson go or Everton let Mc Fadden go. Why should Celtic FC feel that their players do not have to go on this trip and all the others do with the exception of Hearts who have the Cup Final.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Well if it is a lose lose situation for the club, why should Rangers FC have to let their players go like Boyd and Burke or Man Utd have to let Ferguson go or Everton let Mc Fadden go. Why should Celtic FC feel that their players do not have to go on this trip and all the others do with the exception of Hearts who have the Cup Final.

---

They didn't have to. Nobody is better at having players withdrawn from internationals, especially meaningless ones, than united. I'm sure the SFA or smith or whoever could've arranged something closer to home or even a Stan type training camp. I don't see the sense in Japan and obviously, neither does strachan

Thats hardly a way forward for international football that the managers dont have to release their players is there. I see nothing wrong with the Scotland trip and neither did the thousands of Scotland supporters that went over too and seeing their team win 5-1. I agree about Ferguson and the point I would make is that even he let his player go for the game and did not withdraw him. that shows how bad Strachan has got. In my view he let his failture of getting the Scotland job get in the way in the international careers of Mc Manus Marshall and Maloney.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by klein4

if thats how ya feel ban away.....:)

---

Hilarious. God loves a smartarsé, but I don't. Bye bye. If you want back in, feel free to apologise for your idiotic behaviour.

Neil,

1) Do Celtic get some kind of preferential treatment with regards to being allowed to withdraw players from the Scotland squad? No the same rules apply for all.

2) Strachan bitter at not getting the Scotland job? I think he has enough concerns with a forthcoming CL campaign and squad strengthening to be getting on with, He's managing a massive club with massive expectations,I doubt he's that petty.

3) Whilst I can see that you clearly have some empathy with the Tartan Army and how they are so hardly done by Celtic & Rangers. TBH It didn't feel that way when Celtic players were regularly getting booed by the wonderful Tartan Army, if indeed Celtic players were lucky enough to be noticed by the SFA.

I do not support Celtic Rangers or Scotland so I have no bias here other than my declared bias for love of international football. #

How many Celtic fans have posted on this thread and declared that they are Celtic fans.


1) Celtic dont get preferential treatment, but there manager has decided to withdraw them whereas other managers have not withdrawn their players. So it seems that Strachan does not regard the national side as important.


2) I have not doubt that Strachan is happy with his current role and is getting better paid than he would be if he was manager of Scotland. However he did apply for the Scotland job and was turned down and was not too happy about that. I would not rule out the possibility that he does not have much time for the SFA after that.


3) I dont have any empathy but I do know that Scotland fans have been beaten up and get abused regularly on their way to Hampden from people who live in Glasgow. This is fact and has nothing to do with empathy. I did not know about Celtic Player been booed while playing for Scotland by the Tartan Army. If this is the case well then that is a disgrace also. Again it was probably an Rangers element that support Scotland. Most Scotland supporters do not like to see Old Firm prejudice brought into supporting Scotland.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

2) However he did apply for the Scotland job and was turned down and was not too happy about that. I would not rule out the possibility that he does not have much time for the SFA after that.

---

My understanding was that the SFA spoke with him among others but that he hadn't actually applied for it. I could be wrong though.

I agree with Neil McD. International football, even if friendly, must take priority over friendly testimonial club games. If it doesn't, then clubs will simply pull out players on a whim. (Overall, internationals are more important than club games, but to be reasonable you can compare like for like. If Steve Archibald was still playing, you wouldn't expect him to miss Barcelona's cup final to star for Scotland in Japan).

They shouldn't use the 'we pay their wages' argument to avoid criticism. National FAs do pay, both in fees to the players plus insurance costs against injury etc. And ultimately, part of any club's 'contract' with FIFA/ UEFA etc. is that they accept the authorities' rules. One of the most fundamental being the importance of internationals.

As others say, Smith and perhaps Ferguson are hypocrites. Yes, but that dosn't lessen that Strachan is too. Either the players involved weren't needed for the Shearer-Keane love-in, so they could have gone, or they played and might have been injured. The likelihood of which is as real at St James' Park as against Bulgaria's fringe players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I do not support Celtic Rangers or Scotland so I have no bias here other than my declared bias for love of international football. #

How many Celtic fans have posted on this thread and declared that they are Celtic fans.


1) Celtic dont get preferential treatment, but there manager has decided to withdraw them whereas other managers have not withdrawn their players. So it seems that Strachan does not regard the national side as important.


2) I have not doubt that Strachan is happy with his current role and is getting better paid than he would be if he was manager of Scotland. However he did apply for the Scotland job and was turned down and was not too happy about that. I would not rule out the possibility that he does not have much time for the SFA after that.


3) I dont have any empathy but I do know that Scotland fans have been beaten up and get abused regularly on their way to Hampden from people who live in Glasgow. This is fact and has nothing to do with empathy. I did not know about Celtic Player been booed while playing for Scotland by the Tartan Army. If this is the case well then that is a disgrace also. Again it was probably an Rangers element that support Scotland. Most Scotland supporters do not like to see Old Firm prejudice brought into supporting Scotland.

---

I didn't declare I was a Celtic fan, but its fairly obvious from this and many other threads I have posted on.

Im a Celtic and Ireland fan and Im not trying to defend Strachan as like you I don't like the international game being belittled by this or other issues, such as choosing your nationality based on career progession etc......

I just don''t see that this particular instance is any worse than the numerous other examples of it that go on throughout a season and I really can't see how you can make a judgement on Strachans view of the SFA or indeed playing for Scotland based on it. Strachan gained 50 caps for Scotland and features in the Scotland hall of fame. Personally I reckon he fully understands the pride young Shaun, Marshall and McManus would have featuring for Scotland.

Could Scotland be rapidly catching up with Ireland in international terms? Or even overtake us again? Their U19s knocked out the holders France, Belarus and Bulgaria to win their group and qualify for the finals for the first time in 20 years. The squad contained 6 of the double winning Celtic squad, Charlie Grant was voted player of the tournament by UEFA officials.

I would say they have been ahead of us as they have a better record over the last 2 qualifying terms we finisehd 3rd and 4th they finished 2nd and 3rd.

As said right at the start of this thread, if we had players performing like some of theirs are, we'd be very excited. That said, I don't think the core of their side is as goods as ours: Given, Duff, Finnan, Robbie. There does seem to be a lot of good happening in Scottish football though.

On a bit of a tangent, but it's of note for our qualifying group, Wales beat a Basque XI at the weekend. Useful result.