Dream ticket' would not stop Bohs groundsharing

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Originally Posted by A face

Is it up or down though ??

It does seem to me that Bohs are getting shafted. I mean you are saying that its cause you would have a good site in Castleknock .... whats stopping you buying it yourselves ? I mean why do you have to go with the first offer you get ... there are other developers out there aswell.

Is €50,000,000 all you would get for the site ?? I actually think you'd get more given some of the stupid money that is going now on property, same prices as London ffs.

I would have also thought that Dalyer, givens its location is an easy sell no matter what you build on it, so developing on it is a dream come through. Add in Bohs throwing away a few million and there and its the sale of the century.

Thats what it seems like to me anyway !!

Exactly ... no harm in having it that big. How many times has Tolka seemed too small recently.

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The land we are looking at moving to is owned by the developer. He is offering to build the stadium to be ready for us to move into before we hand over Dalymount.

The land value around Phibsboro is currently somewhere in the region of €10,000,000 per acre and we own a touch over 5 acres. The deal sees us getting a figure close to what gael353 says we getting but that is cash on top of the completed stadium. The stadium would cost close to €20,000,000 including the value of the land so there is the 50 million gael353 cites as reasonable.

A FACE, you havent a clue of what you are talking about. To do this ourselves, acquire a site, get the PP and then build it would cost a lot more then what we have on offer currently for a site so close to Dalymount. Also, who says this is the first offer we have received?

Tolka has only be seen as too small ONCE when Shels played Deportivo. It was far from full for the Setanta cup final recently and Shels got a crowd of 7000 for the Lille game.

gael353, we will be getting a fully completed stadium, not a half built stadium. in 2004 Shels got 24000 against Deportivo but less then 1000 a week later against Derry. What need is there for 20000 seats?

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Originally Posted by bohs til i die

A FACE, you havent a clue of what you are talking about. To do this ourselves, acquire a site, get the PP and then build it would cost a lot more then what we have on offer currently for a site so close to Dalymount. Also, who says this is the first offer we have received?

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To be fair BTID, where did claim to be an authority on it, i added to the discussion. Cop on will you, what is the harm in looking at what the opinions could, should, were, will and what you want them to be, its a message board. Relax the head fella.

Anyway ... back to the point, whiles it a great deal, i'm just saying that to the guy on the street, Bohs could be losing out on a bit. The land may be valued at 50 but its return after development could be multiples of that (again i wouldn't exactly know exactly but i'm just putting it out there) ..... is that not something that any developer would jump at?

On the offers that were received, i'm not a member of Bohs so i wouldn't be privy to that info. This is the only offer i have heard of. Would there be more offers being received now that the info is public? Who knows and who knows what would become of them.

Of course we are losing out by selling to a developer as he will make money from building appartments and selling them. However we don't have the expertise to do that, plus all the costs of getting Dalymount rezoned, pp granted, building costs.

Also there were many offers for the site and none came close to this one. Mianly because the other developers had trouble getting a site anywhere in Dublin close to Dalymount for a reasonable cost. We would suffer the same fate if we tried to do that, especially if people knew we had money.

All we can do is try and get what we think is a good deal here and now and go from there. You are right though, we have to make sure we are not screwed over here, thats where I worry. :(

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Originally Posted by chippie0001

All we can do is try and get what we think is a good deal here and now and go from there. You are right though, we have to make sure we are not screwed over here, thats where I worry. :(

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That basically what i'm saying .... again i haven't a clue on this but, if the site is 50 then it is a very very reserved guess to say that at least another 50 could be made from the development of it.

That is alot of cash imo .... i mean, if they build the new place for 20 + another 30 + plus the new site, then they're still completely made up with that deal. And lets be honest, if they only make 50 from developing it, then they might aswell throw the towel in now.

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Originally Posted by chippie0001

Where is €31m coming from, you are way off the mark.

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I read it in the star on sunday. So is it far off the mark? Their are GAA clubs in limerick being offered 9/10 milion for their pitches when in fact there worth about 15 to a housing developer. Bohs are shafted imo

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Originally Posted by gael353

I read it in the star on sunday. So is it far off the mark? Their are GAA clubs in limerick being offered 9/10 milion for their pitches when in fact there worth about 15 to a housing developer. Bohs are shafted imo

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your very gullible.

Don't believe everything you read in the star on Sunday!

Yeah we've been shafted :rolleyes:

Well they did have quotes from certain Bohs officials and had all the plans and other inside stuff. I agree with you that you cant always belive what ye read but lads when it comes to shafting, Bohs dont have the best of records when it comes to land deals now do they? :rolleyes:

I see nothing wrong with what Bohs are proposing to do.

In truth - they would maximise the value of Dalymount, with only a small amunt of effort, if they teamed-up with someone to get plannign permission on the site before selling it. The biggest gain in value for the least amount of work is the difference before and after PP is secured.

The down-side of this is that firsttly, Bohs are a football club, not a property developer, so would have limited knowledge on this. And secondly, a large site like Dalymount could be redeveloped in numerous different ways. Any purchaser would rather work their own planning than take on planning with a site.

Bottom line is that Bohs could maximise the resale value of Dalymount by getting planning before they sold it. But in reality, they probably wouldn't know where to start on this, so the Option 3 on the table is a very suitable alternative.

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Originally Posted by gael353

Well they did have quotes from certain Bohs officials and had all the plans and other inside stuff. I agree with you that you cant always belive what ye read but lads when it comes to shafting, Bohs dont have the best of records when it comes to land deals now do they? :rolleyes:

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were figures quoted from Bohs officials?

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Originally Posted by gael353

Bohs dont have the best of records when it comes to land deals now do they? :rolleyes:

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go on.........

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Originally Posted by gael353

I read it in the star on sunday. So is it far off the mark? Their are GAA clubs in limerick being offered 9/10 milion for their pitches when in fact there worth about 15 to a housing developer. Bohs are shafted imo

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Here`s a hint, basic economic theory: things are worth different amounts to different people.

As chippie has pointed out, unless Bohs have hidden construction & property development IP, a site will always be more valuable to a developer than the current users.

As for E50m being undervalued, I suspect you're comparing it with the E230m in Ballsbridge for the Jury`s site. Different kettle of fish I`m afraid!

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Originally Posted by gael353

I read it in the star on sunday. So is it far off the mark? Their are GAA clubs in limerick being offered 9/10 milion for their pitches when in fact there worth about 15 to a housing developer. Bohs are shafted imo

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Lets look at it for a second, every business in the country aims to make money, why should a property developer be any different. Lets not forget that he has to actually put the houses on site, and market the development and then sell it. If he can negotiate a suitable price and can then make a profit is this not good business sense.

You can't hold that against someone. who cares if this is at the expense of a private individual, football club or a religious order or something. The key word in the whole process is NEGOTIATE. at all stages its possible to say NO.

At the moment Dalymount Park is a liability for Bohemians, if they don't sell and move out, they must maintain and develop the ground, with little or no cash reserves this may pose a problem. If someone is prepared to build a new stadium (which will only require maintainance) and set up a nice stock pile of cash (well in eL standards) its a win-win situation. So what if they then get their cut.

but we need 30,000 sized stadia around the country if we want to hold the european championships !

a 20,000 seater groundshare with two clubs would work well.. of course it would be empty a lot of the time but we could just close off the top tier. The public is more likely to attend a proper stadium than a minging old Dalyer

Ok justification for a 20,000 seater capacity stadium in Dublin
1/ All Dublin EL clubs who qualify for Europe could play their more attractive European Club competition fixtures there.
2/ All Bohs v Rovers Derbies could be held there :D
3/ All other Dublin Derbies liable to attract greater than 10,000 could be played there too.
4/ Mickey Mouse friendlies V English opposition being hosted by any Dublin Club could be played there.
5/ Any club building or rebuilding a stadium in the Dublin area could be hosted there while the building work takes place.
6/ It could host some international matches if we remain in the doldrums.
(i.e 4th or worse seeds , qualifying for nothing etc)
7/ It could be used in the summer for one or two open air gigs!

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Originally Posted by Breifne

Lets look at it for a second, every business in the country aims to make money, why should a property developer be any different. Lets not forget that he has to actually put the houses on site, and market the development and then sell it. If he can negotiate a suitable price and can then make a profit is this not good business sense.

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Yeah, theres nothing wrong with making money is just how much or more precisely, too much is the problem .... percentage wise. Just because a property developer who Bohs dont owe any favours wants to make money doesn't mean they should stand to lose out on potential. Why can Bohs get a percentage of the profit or something? Again i dunno but why should there be a problem in questioning this?

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You can't hold that against someone. who cares if this is at the expense of a private individual, football club or a religious order or something. The key word in the whole process is NEGOTIATE. at all stages its possible to say NO.

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Valid point ... its actually up to Bohs to get their spoke in. If they dont ask/push/barter/whatever then nothing changes

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At the moment Dalymount Park is a liability for Bohemians, if they don't sell and move out, they must maintain and develop the ground, with little or no cash reserves this may pose a problem. If someone is prepared to build a new stadium (which will only require maintainance) and set up a nice stock pile of cash (well in eL standards) its a win-win situation. So what if they then get their cut.

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Agreed .... win win !!

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Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Ok justification for a 20,000 seater capacity stadium in Dublin
1/ All Dublin EL clubs who qualify for Europe could play their more attractive European Club competition fixtures there.
2/ All Bohs v Rovers Derbies could be held there :D
3/ All other Dublin Derbies liable to attract greater than 10,000 could be played there too.
4/ Mickey Mouse friendlies V English opposition being hosted by any Dublin Club could be played there.
5/ Any club building or rebuilding a stadium in the Dublin area could be hosted there while the building work takes place.
6/ It could host some international matches if we remain in the doldrums.
(i.e 4th or worse seeds , qualifying for nothing etc)
7/ It could be used in the summer for one or two open air gigs!

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If you'd added 'viewing platform to observe Haley's Comet' to that list it would've made it complete.... :D

Dublin derbies attracting over 10,000 people ??? When was the last ?!?!

The odd friendly, once-in-a-blue-moon stop-gaps for clubs having stadia developed to such an extent that they can't play at home (i.e. currently no EL club, even though many have developments under-way), international matches if we start doing really sh!te, Bon Jovi and Neil Diamond in August, the one big euro draw that a Dublin club gets every 3-5 years.

It would be insane to put a penny into building a stadium to cater for the above level of demand.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

If you'd added 'viewing platform to observe Haley's Comet' to that list it would've made it complete.... :D

Dublin derbies attracting over 10,000 people ??? When was the last ?!?!

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Last Dub derby 10,000+ ... Bohs were getting 6,000 a few years back and add Rovers in there and clsoe enough i'd say.

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It would be insane to put a penny into building a stadium to cater for the above level of demand.

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Thing is, they wouldn't have to put a penny in technically, by that i mean it wont effect their cash flow, it'll be there. Maintaining it is the thing alright though.

Its a good idea to have at least a decent 10,000 no question of that .... 15,000 would be good aswell and not insane. Depending on how Bohs would approach this, a 20,000 would be good if they can work on filling it with other events.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

but we need 30,000 sized stadia around the country if we want to hold the european championships !

a 20,000 seater groundshare with two clubs would work well.. of course it would be empty a lot of the time but we could just close off the top tier. The public is more likely to attend a proper stadium than a minging old Dalyer

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Top tier :eek: :confused: so we just leave the middle and bottom tiers open then :p

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

but we need 30,000 sized stadia around the country if we want to hold the european championships !

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You can only have two stadia per city in a European Championship bid. We'd be aiming at Croker and the new Landsdowne in that event.

X marks the spot


Proposed place for the ground, please dont play your games on friday nights, jesus the traffic there is crazy as is :D




kdjac