Government Position on US Illegals

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Originally Posted by klein4

Have to say I disagree with ya there. I might want to live in australia(for example) cause of the weather and the lifestyle but it wouldnt mean I would want to ever be an australian. cause Im Irish. it probably sums up whats wrong with america at the mo if they think being proud of where you are from is anti american if that place is not america.

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Very assumptious of you regarding Americans. The typical american whether their ancestors came from Ireland, Italy, Africa, Asian or are Jewish etc are very proud of their background.

I am an immigrant from Ireland and was proud to become a US citizen a few years ago. Am I any less Irish now? Nope. My problem with some of these protestors is that they give a bad impression when they are waving their Mexican, Guatamalan or wherever flag. It is not about where they are from is the issue. They want more rights in the US. Then appreciate the country and fly the US flag.

I wasnt making assumptions about americans.
But I dont agree with you that they should be waving American Flags.
If it was in Ireland and a load of Nigerians/Polish/British immigrants started walking down o connell street waving Irish flags we would all be thinking "chancy *******s!"

Lads both of you are makiing assumptions that you speak for the majority. Stick to I think rather than "we'd think"

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an immigrant from Ireland and was proud to become a US citizen a few years ago. Am I any less Irish now? Nope.

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I think you are

I dont have an arse what you are on about.:confused: what i meant was I dont go in for this whole "americans are stupid and to blame for everything" lark. so I wasnt makin asumptions. I was referring to the "with us or against us" attitude prevalent in the states. which metrostars comments bout the flags kinda illustraes...for me!

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Originally Posted by klein4

I dont have an arse what you are on about.:confused: what i meant was I dont go in for this whole "americans are stupid and to blame for everything" lark. so I wasnt makin asumptions. I was referring to the "with us or against us" attitude prevalent in the states. which metrostars comments bout the flags kinda illustraes...for me!

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And you are missing my point. My point is that the illegals would get more sympathy if they fly the US flag instead. Being from Mexico, Ireland, China etc is not the point, it doesnt really matter where they are from, they are trying to get more rights in the US. It's like when I watch say Man Utd versus Chelsea on my TV and I see all these Ireland flags. Why? I just don't get it. Bring a United or Chelsea flag instead.

As for the "with us or agin us" attitude, this country(USA) is divided down the middle. TBH I dont spend much time in the "red" states but where I live, that is not the prevalent attitude.

Metrostars your "flag" sentiments are leaning to the right.

Lou Dobbs was whinging about the carrying and waving of Mexican Flags. When asked "What about St Patricks Day when everyones waving the Irish Flag?" he replied ""I don't think there should be a St Patrick's Day...I don't care who you are. I think we should be celebrating what's common in this country." What a d!ck :rolleyes:

My opinion is, the immigrants aren't coming here to be American, they're reasons are purely economic...so there's no need to wave the American Flag. Do you honestly think they'd get more sympathy waving the stars and bars? Thats b@lls - unfortunately most people in this country would be "Look at those foreigners waving OUR flag!!".... and thats putting it in a polite way.

Every side of this issue use it for their own devices. All these people claiming the illegals are costing the country billions but in the same breath saying "Sergio, don't forget to pull the weeds out...por favor". :mad:

In fairness to Metrostars, he's only making a point about PR. And it's a point I've come across in a few places this past week. E.g., in an op-ed in the New York Times last week (Sunday, I think) there was a piece from someone involved in the immigrant rights movement saying exactly the same thing. The author also seemed to think that the prevalence of non-US flags had hurt the movement the last time this was an issue (California in the 90's when there was a referendum on immigration policy). Apparently, after a big march back then, U.S. born Californians did react poorly to all those foreign flags (and lack of U.S. flags), as reflected in the change in the opinion polls before and after the demonstration.

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Originally Posted by Metrostars

Very assumptious of you regarding Americans. The typical american whether their ancestors came from Ireland, Italy, Africa, Asian or are Jewish etc are very proud of their background.

I am an immigrant from Ireland and was proud to become a US citizen a few years ago. Am I any less Irish now? Nope.

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Well legally you are no longer an Irish citizen. You renounced Irish citizenship when you became an American citizen under Irish Law and could technically be deported to the USA if you infringed Irish laws on a visit home.

An Irish citizen on the other can never be deported from this country!

Anyone who chooses to be an illegal in the USA is an idiot!
Why be illegal in the USA when you can be perfectly legal in anyone of 25 member states of the EU?
I personally think it is because punters are too lazy to learn a language. You only have to see how teachproof many Irish students are when it comes to their own language to see what I mean !

Teachproof. What a great word.

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Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Well legally you are no longer an Irish citizen. You renounced Irish citizenship when you became an American citizen under Irish Law and could technically be deported to the USA if you infringed Irish laws on a visit home.

An Irish citizen on the other can never be deported from this country!

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Irish law permits dual citizenship and does not require applicants to renounce any other citizenship held at the time of application.

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http://www.irelandemb.org/fbr.html

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Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Anyone who chooses to be an illegal in the USA is an idiot!
Why be illegal in the USA when you can be perfectly legal in anyone of 25 member states of the EU?
I personally think it is because punters are too lazy to learn a language. You only have to see how teachproof many Irish students are when it comes to their own language to see what I mean !

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Well the 50,000 Irish there would have something to say on being called an "idiot":eek:

They choose to stay there because of the life they have made for themselves. They choose to stay there because it can be a great life if you work hard. I worked for guys there with no papers who have their own successful businesses. Maybe they choose to stay to get away from the negativity of the above comments.

KOH

Surely the main aim when going to another country is to respect that country and their traditions but not to the detriment of your own beliefs and pride in who you are. It is surely about incorporation of your old beliefs and traditions and new ones that you pick up. I can however see the problem that has arisen in the US, 11 million does seem a very large number. I remember reading that the current number of illegal immigrants in the UK is 500,000 quite a large number as well. Not sure what the figure is for the ROI.

I noticed with the most recent demonstrations here in the US, that the Stars and Stripes was more prevalent. What I found amusing was that most of the speakers spoke in Spanish! How can they expect to garner sympathy from the average American when they won't converse in a public arena by speaking English. My point is that if you are going live in a foreign Country, or attempt to live in a foreign Country, at least try to communicate in the native tongue. Easy for me to say as an immigrant who speaks English, but if I had decided to move to say,Germany, I'm going to learn that language. Is that too much to ask?

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Surely the main aim when going to another country is to respect that country and their traditions but not to the detriment of your own beliefs and pride in who you are. It is surely about incorporation of your old beliefs and traditions and new ones that you pick up.

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Well said Dassa.

This idea of immigration has always puzzled me and one question in particular. When someone moves to a country and has children. Should that person go out of their way to bring up their child in the main traditions of the country that they have moved to for the future non alienation of that child in years to come or should the parents bring them up in the major traditions of where they have come from even though this could have a negative effect for the child? very tough to know what is the right approach.

I don't have kids, but what would be wrong by doing both? Assuming that it would not have a negative effect on the child of course. If I did have kids and they were born over here, I would try and give them the best of both worlds. Simplistic answer I know, but not having any children, I couldn't say for sure what the right approach would be. Interesting question for someone that is raising a child in another Country or for that matter, someone who has already been raised by immigrant parents.

I have 3 kids and they are American kids. Whose father is from Ireland. IMO, the only real way to raise children as "irish" is to actually move to Ireland, to live with all irish people, go to Irish schools etc. I meet people here whose are second or third generation Irish-descent but some of the things they experienced in childhood, IMO, appears to be too forced on them. It still gets to me (after 14 years living here) when people come up to me and tell me they're "Irish", to which I usually reply, "Oh really, what part of Ireland are you from?" With my kids we all celebrate the Irish heritage to an extent. I met another parent at my kids' school recently who couldnt understand why we did not have our girls taking Irish dancing lessons. They dont because they prefer to do gymnastics instead. They dont "have" to do it just because it's the irish thing to do here. We go back to Ireland every 2 years (actually we're leaving on Friday again!) and they know it is part of their lives but I'm not pretending that they are anything other than Americans.

Of course, thats just my opinion, there is not right way or wrong way.

As for the language issue, for some this is a educational issue, for others, laziness. I work in the IT field with a lot of people from all over the world and we all speak english. Because we all have to. Like it or not, most illegals are less educated or had not the resources to learn english prior to moving here. And when they do move here, a lot only ever have to deal with people in their community and then dont bother to learn the language. There are some people who have live here 20 or 30 years and still have not picked up the language.