Delaney-"All-Ireland league a possibility"

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Originally Posted by David

What do you base this on?

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I think this year's Setanta Cup will really expose the gulf in standards that exists north and south. There is a widespread feeling amongst EL fans that Linfield's victory last year was unexpected and broadly unreflective.

Only one of the Northern entrants are any good - Linfield - and for a team galloping ahead in the league who haven't lost an IL match since biblical times, I'm sorry to say you're no great shakes. You looked very average against a Derry team lacking match fitness/sharpness, even though you were at home. You can claim that as an off day - but then a weak later your team shipped 3 goals to a very poor Glens side in the same competition.

Anyways - it's all just opinion at the moment. We'll know the real answer come April. Meanwhile - 8 games into this year's competition and no Irish League side has yet managed to record a victory against an EL team. EL clubs have, on the other hand, clocked-up 2 wins out of 4 starts against northern opponents - including our 3rd best team last year beating your current champions. Like I said, we'll have the definitive answer come end end of the tournament - but initial readings of the proverbial tea leaves aren't looking too good for the IL.....

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Originally Posted by Strabane_Harp

the fact that outside the top 3 the rest of the league is **** poor and a joke

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I would agree that on the whole the EL is better but that is not what his post said. It said that the EL teams are better at the minute which to me means that the best in EL are better than anything in IL which to me is debatable. I would say at the top level there is very little difference.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

I think this year's Setanta Cup will really expose the gulf in standards that exists north and south. There is a widespread feeling amongst EL fans that Linfield's victory last year was unexpected and broadly unreflective.

Only one of the Northern entrants are any good - Linfield - and for a team galloping ahead in the league who haven't lost an IL match since biblical times, I'm sorry to say you're no great shakes. You looked very average against a Derry team lacking match fitness/sharpness, even though you were at home. You can claim that as an off day - but then a weak later your team shipped 3 goals to a very poor Glens side in the same competition.

Anyways - it's all just opinion at the moment. We'll know the real answer come April. Meanwhile - 8 games into this year's competition and no Irish League side has yet managed to record a victory against an EL team. EL clubs have, on the other hand, clocked-up 2 wins - including our 3rd best team last year beating your champions of last year. Like I said, we'll know in April - but initial indications aren't great for the IL.

Time will tell....

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So what you are saying is that if an EL team wins it this year then that is definative that they are the best team anywhere on the island but Linfield doing this last year didn't do this? Strange logic there.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Only one of the Northern entrants are any good - Linfield - and for a team galloping ahead in the league who haven't lost an IL match since biblical times, I'm sorry to say you're no great shakes. You looked very average against a Derry team lacking match fitness/sharpness, even though you were at home. You can claim that as an off day - but then a weak later your team shipped 3 goals to a very poor Glens side in the same competition.

Anyways - it's all just opinion at the moment. We'll know the real answer come April. Meanwhile - 8 games into this year's competition and no Irish League side has yet managed to record a victory against an EL team. EL clubs have, on the other hand, clocked-up 2 wins out of 4 starts against northern opponents - including our 3rd best team last year beating your current champions. Like I said, we'll have the definitive answer come end end of the tournament - but initial readings of the proverbial tea leaves aren't looking too good for the IL.....

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Linfield played Derry City and held their own despite this being our second tough game in three days. Remember, if we were so poor, you could not break us down in open play so does not say much for you. As for leaking 3 against the Glens, our defence was all over the place. Our first choice right back was away with Northern Ireland under 21's, our second choice is injured which meant playing a centre half at right back which meant the whole defence lost its shape and confidence. Also one of those goals was as a result of the most ridiculous penalty you will ever see and another was when we were very harshly down to ten men.

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Originally Posted by David

So what you are saying is that if an EL team wins it this year then that is definative that they are the best team anywhere on the island but Linfield doing this last year didn't do this? Strange logic there.

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Not at all. The debate here is about the quality of the leagues - not one team.

Last year's tournament proved fairly inconclusive in terms of which league OVERALL was the better. Linfield winning didn't change the OVERALL run of results. Regardless, it was still a surprising win for them over a team who are usually very good, but were in one of their weakest starts for years.

This year - even at this early stage - results seem to be suggesting a more conclusive OVERALL pattern than last year. EL teams beating IL teams, IL teams struggling to win and at best recording draws. As the tournament progresses, that 'for' and 'against' tally will doubtless change, but I fully expect the trend to be maintained (particularly next week, which I think will prove key to the tournament overall).

So even if Linfield did win it again this year, if the results across the tournament AS A WHOLE were strongly in favour of EL clubs, then that would state that the Irish League was weaker. One good team doth not a quality league make.....

Monaco does not have it's own National League

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Originally Posted by David

Linfield played Derry City and held their own despite this being our second tough game in three days. Remember, if we were so poor, you could not break us down in open play so does not say much for you. As for leaking 3 against the Glens, our defence was all over the place. Our first choice right back was away with Northern Ireland under 21's, our second choice is injured which meant playing a centre half at right back which meant the whole defence lost its shape and confidence. Also one of those goals was as a result of the most ridiculous penalty you will ever see and another was when we were very harshly down to ten men.

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And you only scored against us thanks to a goal-keeping error, and we were denied victory by some questionable offside decisions by the linesman (e.g. McHugh's 'goal' which deflected off one of your defenders, so couldn't have been offside). But then you'll say you should've won because you were denied a panelty. And so it goes on - yeddah, yaddah; if, but, coulda, shoulda, yawn.....

We'll see in the Brandywell. :D

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Originally Posted by BohsFan

Think you are being a bit unfair, to say the least. Last year you say Linfield win was not reflective yet if they don't deliver this year somehow that will be reflective. I don't get that at all. I think Linfields win last season was fully merited. Shels were at that stage in good form (not after it though) and got to play the final on their home turf. Yet Linfield won the match comfortably.

I do though think that Linfields absolute stuffing of all and everyone in front of them up north this season might actually be working against them this season. Matches have simply become routine affairs and maybe some of the players have got used to winning at a canter. If they want to achieve again in this competition then I think they are going to have to raise their game, there is no mistake about that. I don't think it is fair to write off their achievement of last season simply because it doesn't conform to how you think it should have turned out.

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Bohsfan - that's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about results OVERALL - not a single team's performance. See my last response to David for elaboration.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Not at all. The debate here is about the quality of the leagues - not one team.

Last year's tournament proved fairly inconclusive in terms of which league OVERALL was the better. Linfield winning didn't change the OVERALL run of results. Regardless, it was still a surprising win for them over a team who are usually very good, but were in one of their weakest starts for years.

This year - even at this early stage - results seem to be suggesting a more conclusive OVERALL pattern than last year. EL teams beating IL teams, IL teams struggling to win and at best recording draws. As the tournament progresses, that 'for' and 'against' tally will doubtless change, but I fully expect the trend to be maintained (particularly next week, which I think will prove key to the tournament overall).

So even if Linfield did win it again this year, if the results across the tournament AS A WHOLE were strongly in favour of EL clubs, then that would state that the Irish League was weaker. One good team doth not a quality league make.....

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I have already agreed that on the whole the IL is weaker, to me there is no arguing that, but at the top level there is very little difference as has been proved in the closeness of all north v south games with the exception of Shels v Glens. You say about Shels being poor last year but am I not right in saying that they were doing pretty well up until we beat them and then had a disastrous run?

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Originally Posted by David

I have already agreed that on the whole the IL is weaker, to me there is no arguing that, but at the top level there is very little difference as has been proved in the closeness of all north v south games with the exception of Shels v Glens. You say about Shels being poor last year but am I not right in saying that they were doing pretty well up until we beat them and then had a disastrous run?

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And I'm saying that this year's Setanta Cup will expose that there IS a difference between the top level teams - as that's the only ones who get to play in Setanta.

We've only had 4 meetings between the 2 leagues to-date. 50% of those were EL victories, and 50% draws. There have been NO wins by an IL club in 4 opportunities. A win is a win - regardless of the margin, so you can't scrub any results from the board just because you consider them 'close'.

As I said, time will tell....

And as for shels start to last season - true, their performances did take a dip after the Setanta Cup Final. But thei start to the league wasn't great either. They recorded 2 draws in their first 4 games - including a home draw against UCD on the opening day. Hardly a strong start for the team every bookie had as absolute favourites for the title.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

And I'm saying that this year's Setanta Cup will expose that there IS a difference between the top level teams - as that's the only ones who get to play in Setanta.

We've only had 4 meetings between the 2 leagues to-date. 50% of those were EL victories, and 50% draws. There have been NO wins by an IL club in 4 opportunities. A win is a win - regardless of the margin, so you can't scrub any results from the board just because you consider them 'close'.

As I said, time will tell....

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But yet again you are being selective by saying this year's results are a true reflection yet last years were not. I think I am right in saying that Irish League clubs came out in front in the head to heads last year by 4-2 with the rest being draws. Does that mean that last year the Irish League was a stronger league?

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Originally Posted by David

What do you base this on?

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go figure:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

go figure:rolleyes:

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The fact that the last two all Ireland competitions have been won by a team down south? Oh, here hold on a minute......:rolleyes:

Linfield look a good team with decent facilities. Glentoran not too bad either. Beyond that standard & facilities drop away a lot. Its not surprising as republic has about 3 times the population.

Portadown are the 3rd team in the IL & have more in common with Longford (not disrespect) as town only 20k population. Would Dungannon wbe the equivalent of Bray or other eL side.

I used to be optimistic of an all-ireland league but the feeling i get now is IL sides feel they need fulltime players & not willing to adapt to that change.

BTW both the FAI & IFA could maintain 1st divisions of their own below an All-Ireland Super League thereby ensuring they mean FIFA obligations.

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Originally Posted by BohsFan

Steve, I don't think thats right. I think Shels went into the final on the back of good recent form and it was only after defeat in the final that they lost the plot. I am sure one of our resident Shels fans will wither confirm or not the accuracy of this claim, but I think my memory is reasonably reliable on this one.

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Good form results wise but we weren't really playing convincingly.

As for the standard, European results is the best way to measure it and it says it all.

I hope the idiots rioting last Saturday hasn't set the All-Ireland league back another 80 years.

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Originally Posted by ThatGuy

I hope the idiots rioting last Saturday hasn't set the All-Ireland league back another 80 years.

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Certainly not ThatGuy. The 2 won't even be connected in anyone's heads.

There's a sepaarte thread on this anyway....

The issue of an All Ireland/ All Island league was debated in Portlaoise (see Great Soccer Debate).
On another note the FAI has just apppointed a project manager to work on the amalgamation of the eircom league into the FAI

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

Good form results wise but we weren't really playing convincingly.

As for the standard, European results is the best way to measure it and it says it all.

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Surely matches against each other when both clubs are in their season is a better way to judge than how clubs get on against different opponents. :confused:

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Originally Posted by David

Surely matches against each other when both clubs are in their season is a better way to judge than how clubs get on against different opponents. :confused:

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The odd matches in one short period alone v consistent results over the past 5/6 years not all of which we were in summer football? Seems pretty obvious to me.