Duff's decline into mediocrity?

I think while Duff has added a sense of defensive responsibility to his game I also think that this has been to the detriment of his attacking play which is the reason he was so highly thought of and also why Chelsea paid as much for him as they did. When Duff played in the U20 World Cup in Malaysia he was voted as the best European player at the competition and at the World Cup in Japan he was voted on to the tournament 11. So he has been a great attacking player in the past and he can be again, but not under Mourinho. He has done what any other player would do, he has adjusted his game in order to fit into the system and style of play that the manager prefers. I don't blame Duff for this, as I said any player would do the same. It's just that I think were he to play for a team like Barcelona or Real Madrid we would see his real attacking potential fulfilled. When Duff's career is over in 10 years or so it is quite possible that he will be remembered as nothing more than a Premiership grafter, a hard working player who occasionally was able to beat a man. If he gets to play for a big team, under a different manager, he could be remembered as much more than that. I know he has won the league with Chelsea and if he stays with them he will no doubt win more trophies but surely if he does move it will be to one of the bigger clubs where he does not necessarily have to sacrifice his ambitions while also being allowed to play his natural attacking game.

I can't help but feel Duff would be a much better player now, if Liverpool, Man U or even Arsenal had come in for him before Chelsea, I don't find self racing to watch a Chelsea match anymore to try and catch a bit of the Duff magic of old cause you know it just ain't gonna happen! Mourinhos sides are about collective team work rather than individual talent.. and Duff is another cog in the system! I was so glad to see individual talent overcome a crude system on Wednesday nite when Barcelonas flair outdone Chelseas soulless workman like unit of which Duff is just another foot solider...

There are a few factors to this supposed loss of attacking flair
Firstly, he's playing for a big team now. The opposition defend more against them.
Secondly, he's playing with better players. When he gets the ball there are other players in better positions to receive the ball. Why dribble past a few players when there is a player already to pass to.
Thirdly, he doesn't get the ball as often as he would for Ireland. There are a number of attacking options at Chelsea.
Four, football is a passing game. Dribbling past players is all very well but there is no guarantee of an end product at the end of it e.g. Ronaldo.
Lastly, if he's tracking back that means he is in a better position to receive the ball. If anything he is a better player than he was. He is more disciplined. His passing is better. He defends better.

all very interesting comments lads. foot.ie at its best.

Of course we should not forget that Chelsea lost :D


Wasn't this Chelsea's first home defeat (or something like that) under the
charge of "the special one" ;)

I think the best move for duff would be to move to liverpool in the summer. He would suit liverpools tactics a lot more than chelseas. Does anyone agree with that???

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Wasn't this Chelsea's first home defeat (or something like that) under the
charge of "the special one"

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you forgot the word 'needs' in between 'special' and 'one'....:D

This debate has been done before and I'm struggling to re-write evrything I said back then but i know I thought that it was a form issue and I stick by that. I've heard nothing but excuses (imo) for why Duff isn't performing and hardly a mention about the player himself. I've heard it all, it's Mourniho & the system for Chelsea and the tight marking for Ireland (even heard Kilbane used as an excuse for Duff's form on foot.ie once).

If,as people are suggusting, that as a result of Mourniho asking him to play a different way that this has affected both Duff for Chelsea & Ireland, then he is not the world class player any of us believe he is. And I do believe he is World Class, so cannot go along with that assessment at all. Players play in different positions and formations all the time and then head off to their national team and play in another system and put in performances.

When someone's game becomes less effective over a period of time, the first place you must look is at the player. I haven't seen how his form is everyone's fault but his - it's baffling to me.:confused:

I am big fan of duffer but somethimes I sense that Keane-esque feeling where Irish people just can't see any wrong in his game. He's a smashing player suffering from a gradual loss of form in my opinion - it happens to the best of them and he'll come good again, that I'm sure of.

Even with what I consider a loss of form, he's still the second name any Ireland manager will put on the teamsheet after Breen (oops.....I meant Given!!! :) ) without question.

Wednesday in a meaningless friendly really isn't where we need to see the old Duffer - we just need him to perform in those big games again starting on 2nd September 2006 in Stuttgart..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

If,as people are suggusting, that as a result of Mourniho asking him to play a different way that this has affected both Duff for Chelsea & Ireland, then he is not the world class player any of us believe he is.

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I don't agree with that. If taking on players wasn't in Robben's role he'd be pretty average too.

I've put together all my clips of Duff btw:
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.ph...uffer_full.wmv

download link

The first time I saw Duff play I was amazed by his skill and his overall ability to play football. I was glad he was Irish and still am of course. I loved watching him play whether it be for Blackburn, early Chelsea day’s but especially for Ireland.He lit up the field, everyone loved him and his presence alone on the pitch gave everyone hope that we might go along way towards achieving our objective in the football world.He outshone all his colleagues on the pitch and most of the time was un markable.I felt optimistic about our chances every time Duff played. Then Mourinho came along and changed all his game.The spark and excitement went from Duffs game.He still is a great player but is playing the way his boss wants him to play not the way he wants and needs to play...I want the old Duff back and if it means going to Wigan to get that I don’t care.I don’t give a flying Fcuk if Chelsea ever win another game all I want is for Duff to go back to the player I first saw don an Irish shirt.I watched that guy Messie (spelling) for Barsa the other night and he reminded me of how Duff used to be (Best Player and most dangerous one on the field)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I don't agree with that. If taking on players wasn't in Robben's role he'd be pretty average too.

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I know we disagree on this Eirebhoy and neither of us are likely to budge! :) .

How does this example with Robben explain Duff's performances for Ireland? Playing two different roles and systems hasn't effected the likes of Joe Cole with England, or Van Persie with Arsenal & Holland or a list of countless other players playing difering roles for club & country. I just don't go along that Mourniho in one season can radically change a player so much that if affects his performances in 'any' position for 'any' team that player subsequently plays in. He certainly plays in a different style for Chelsea (i'm not doubting that) but I don't go along with the notion that this one year under Mourniho has overiden all the previous years as a winger taking on players and is the sole reason why he is not as effective recently for us. For me it sounds like a cop out as Duff is playing is his usual position just doing a different job. There's lesser players in his league playing 4 or 5 different positions a season without a bother nevermind just playing the same position with a different focus. I don't see the co-relation between his role for Ireland and his role for Chelsea. A player of his calibre should be more than capable of doing both. His role for Chelsea doesn't excuse his Ireland performances in my opinion.


I maintain, when the form drops the first thing that must be looked at is the player himself and not who esle is to blame for why. I don't believe the excuses given for Duff for example would be acceptable if we were talking about Kilbane or O'Shea - where's the outcry against Moyes & Fergie for asking these players to play different roles than normal thus effecting their Ireland performances?

I love Duffer alot more than 'the special needs one' but I won't make excuses for him when he's out of sorts. However I've every faith he'll be back to his normal self soon enough - I'm assuming however that many of you don't believe that will happen as long as he is a Chelsea player under Jose? :confused: :)

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Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

I know we disagree on this Eirebhoy and neither of us are likely to budge! :) .

How does this example with Robben explain Duff's performances for Ireland? Playing two different roles and systems hasn't effected the likes of Joe Cole with England, or Van Persie with Arsenal & Holland or a list of countless other players playing difering roles for club & country. I just don't go along that Mourniho in one season can radically change a player so much that if affects his performances in 'any' position for 'any' team that player subsequently plays in. He certainly plays in a different style for Chelsea (i'm not doubting that) but I don't go along with the notion that this one year under Mourniho has overiden all the previous years as a winger taking on players and is the sole reason why he is not as effective recently for us. For me it sounds like a cop out as Duff is playing is his usual position just doing a different job. There's lesser players in his league playing 4 or 5 different positions a season without a bother nevermind just playing the same position with a different focus. I don't see the co-relation between his role for Ireland and his role for Chelsea. A player of his calibre should be more than capable of doing both. His role for Chelsea doesn't excuse his Ireland performances in my opinion.

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Mourinho has changed him. He now feels he doesn't have to take on a player all the time. That's probably a good thing. With Chelsea though he'd probably try take on a player once or twice a game and will probably fail. With Ireland he got a lot more freedom and while he was taking on players a lot more, he was still taking the short option regularly. That's fair enough. Against France though he didn't try to take on a player. This is probably because he had so many players on him that he felt he couldn't get the better. The Duff of 2 years ago would have tried to take them on anyway. Duff didn't play badly at home to France. It wasn't his form causing him to play conservative. He just didn't try to do anything spectacular.

As I mentioned a few times, when there was nothing at stake and he is not being marked as tightly he is 10 times the player. His performance against Italy was the best I've seen him in years. Against Portugal and Croatia he was the best player on the pitch too. It's no coincedence that that's our last 3 friendlies.

The only game I can remember him playing badly against in the last campaign was Faroes away. Every other game he played as well as he tried to play. This is down to Mourinho, I don't think there's any doubt about that. If Mourinho never took over Duff would be still dazzling crowds game in game out. You're probably right and it's up to Duff to change his game for Ireland whenever he plays for us. That doesn't change what I'm saying. If he joined Man Utd in 2003 we would not have these threads opening up every few months.

he should look for a move this season! to either Man Utd, Liverpool or arsenal! would get startin regular for those 3 and would improve again

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I don't agree with that. If taking on players wasn't in Robben's role he'd be pretty average too.

I've put together all my clips of Duff btw:
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.ph...uffer_full.wmv

download link

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Thank's for that eirebhoy...Thats the Duff i want back..I see he came on as a sub against Portsmouth this afternoon..Dont know what way he was allowed play though.:)

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Originally Posted by FarBeag

.Dont know what way he was allowed play though.:)

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Left back. :o

he's definately not a left back but I thought he showed promise going forward at every opportunity. Took on players and was intelligent with his passing. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

How does this example with Robben explain Duff's performances for Ireland? Playing two different roles and systems hasn't effected the likes of Joe Cole with England, or Van Persie with Arsenal & Holland or a list of countless other players playing difering roles for club & country. ,,,,,,,, I don't see the co-relation between his role for Ireland and his role for Chelsea. A player of his calibre should be more than capable of doing both. His role for Chelsea doesn't excuse his Ireland performances in my opinion.

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The simple answer could be in the reported quotes of Duff, he has taken the coaching changes on board fully, and incorporated the changes into his game wholesale. Rather than playing one game for Chelsea and another for Ireland.
Maybe Kerr supported the conservative role. You'd hope that Robson in particular, given a chance, could swing a change in Duff's mood.

Duff is suffering from the same malaise as many players of various different nationalities in the Premiershi*. He's over frigging paid!

Seems like we have found our left back, the place everyone has been struggling to fill in their Sweden Squad!

Given
Finnan Dunn O'Shea Duff
etc.........

Is he defensively that much better than Hartey? :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Seems like we have found our left back, the place everyone has been struggling to fill in their Sweden Squad!

Given
Finnan Dunn O'Shea Duff
etc.........

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That means we can have Kilbane back at LM.