Am I Racist

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Originally Posted by Risteard

No, of course not.

Thing is you said one of them.
If you were to gain an opinion (positive or negative) out of the guys entire race/ nationality that would be racist.

What's racist and what's not isn't really a blurred line imo.
It's pretty straightforward.

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I think a lot of people in this country feel that it is quite a blurred line
because it seems that in the current climate many people have been incorrectly or indirectly called racist.
a couple of example's of this. I was queueing at the receptionist to register to see the G.P there was about 7 people in the queue, An African lady arrived and walked straight to the hatch without queueing when the Receptionist pointed out that there was a queue the African Lady began to hurl abuse at her accusing her of being racist.
I also know of many taxi drivers who have been called racist because they wont allow foriegn nationals to haggle the price of the fare.
I know a lot of people are unwilling to object to certain sections of our immigrant population basically taking the P!ss in this way for fear of being called racist


Rant Over ..................For Now

Who else is going to work in Spar/Centra etc etc? It's the economy stupid, simple as that. We need these people or else you couldn't get a tuna roll or a packet of fags or a magazine or a pint of milk at 3.00am - something that you would be hard pressed to get anywhere else in Europe.

As a nation we demand convenience and if the price is that you have to speak a bit slower to the foreign national behind the counter then so be it. Have none of you been to New York? The greatest city in the world and virtually nobody working in the service industry speaks English as a first language.

I'm not going to say that Max Power is racist but on numerous occasions I've had to remonstrate with racist Irish tossers in shop queues.

KOH

when I was working in australia I had to ring people up and this one woman asked me for my fax number which involved saying 333. she kept getting me to repeat it and I kept sayin it without pronouncing the th. until eventually she said "oh THree THree THree!...if you are going to come work in a country you should at least make an effort to learn the language!" Which i suppose is similar to max power going into a shop and making a point about the people behind the counter not speaking english properly.
I told her I was only there for the year and didnt think it was long enough to learn aboriginey and she hung up. :)

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Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

I think a lot of people in this country feel that it is quite a blurred line because it seems that in the current climate many people have been incorrectly or indirectly called racist. a couple of example's of this. I was queueing at the receptionist to register to see the G.P there was about 7 people in the queue, An African lady arrived and walked straight to the hatch without queueing when the Receptionist pointed out that there was a queue the African Lady began to hurl abuse at her accusing her of being racist. I also know of many taxi drivers who have been called racist because they wont allow foriegn nationals to haggle the price of the fare.
I know a lot of people are unwilling to object to certain sections of our immigrant population basically taking the P!ss in this way for fear of being called racist

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In fairness though, queuing and haggling are both cultural things. I know that I've done things out of place in other countries simply because I was unaware but I wasn’t knowingly taking the p1ss and I think it would have been harsh to assume that I was.

Many may regard me as a “left-wing nazi” in that I normally take the more inclusive line on these arguments, but I don’t think you’re asking too much to expect shop workers to speak english. Whose fault is it though? I don’t blame people for coming to Britain or Ireland, we've a good standard of living etc. And I don't blame the governments for welcoming immigrants, both countries would struggle to function without them. And I don’t blame those people taking whatever work they can get in order to live. But these aren't your problem, if you’ve a problem with poor service in a shop, then you’ve a problem with the shop and I'd recommend you complain to the manager or not patronise it. Repatriating immigrants has nothing to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Hither green

Whose fault is it though? I don’t blame people for coming to Britain or Ireland, we've a good standard of living etc. And I don't blame the governments for welcoming immigrants, both countries would struggle to function without them. And I don’t blame those people taking whatever work they can get in order to live.

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what the hell have we got to do with britain????????:confused:

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Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

I was queueing at the receptionist to register to see the G.P there was about 7 people in the queue, An African lady arrived and walked straight to the hatch without queueing when the Receptionist pointed out that there was a queue the African Lady began to hurl abuse at her accusing her of being racist.

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I was at a meeting last week where Fr Angelo Lafferty was the speaker. Angelo's work amongst the immigrant community has been widely recognised.

He told a story of standing in a queue in the Post Office when an African guy came in and pushed in at the front. No-one challenged him, so Angelo, who is well-built, went to the front and told the man that he should join the queue.

'I'm in a hurry', said the man.

'So am I', said Angelo. 'So is everyone here. You must join the back of the queue'.

'You're a racist', said the man.

'Do you know Fr Angelo?' asked Angelo

'Yes', said the man, 'he is a good friend of mine'.

'Well', said Angelo, 'I'm Father Angelo and I'm telling you that you must join the queue'.

The man went out and the people in the queue clapped. Angelo then turned on them and said, 'You're being racist in not expecting new comers to behave as we would expect Irish people to behave'.

It was a fair point. Failing to expect people to conform to reasonable standards is as much a form of racism as being abusive.

Perhaps receptionists and other staff should be trained to tell people that there are certain norms of behaviour and it would be racist if we didn't expect people to live up to those norms.

If staff do not communicate properly, perhaps we should point out to management that they should provide proper training.

Bit of a double edged sword, people could say that your rasist for discriminating
against a shop assistant who doesnt speak English, but you could also say that
the shop was discriminating against any customer who hasnt an adequate grasp
of the shop assistants language!

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Originally Posted by klein4

what the hell have we got to do with britain????????:confused:

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Sorry wasn't connecting the two in any other way other than it being an identical experience to what is experienced over here. Or indeed throughout Europe.

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Originally Posted by klein4

what the hell have we got to do with britain????????:confused:

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Nothing at all, we live in a cocoon! :rolleyes:

We are actually a country in our own right not a province of Britain. Nothing to do with being in a cocoon. Its no more relevant than comparing us to britain than to any other country in the world. But seeing as you have Britains immigration situation is rooted in a colonialist past and Irelands has its roots a period of rapid economic growth. so I think they are different situations.

I have been called racist many times and that was in a work situtuin when people weren't getting what they wanted, i feel they thought it would shame me into giving in, but not a hope.

on the shop thing, if i pay for a serivce i expect it to be professional and up to a certain stanard, not being able to speak basic english falls well below that standard.

Dodge many times i have called someone a dublin w@nker, being a culchie it would be something that i'd do......not always but somethings.

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Originally Posted by max power

ok dont know what why to approch this but here goes,

does it get up anyone elses nose that when you walk into a store and ask for soemthing of a member of staff that they stare at you as if you have two heads,

at that moment i wished every foreigner in the land would just fcuk off home.


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i think its fair to expect a certain level of english to be spoken by foreigners if they are dealing with people ie in shops your not racist for that ,
but i would ask

1)do you have a strong accient that maybe is hard to understand , if i go up north it like a different language ! i was in glasgow and had to get the white scotish english speaking girl to repeat herself 3 times in KFC she was asking what drink i wanted !!! :D

2) what where you asking for maybe they had never heard of it next time your in the uk ask for red lemonade and see the way they look at you !!:D


your i wish they'd all feck off home comment is racist as you include all foreigners even english speaking ones that you may not consider foreigners ( ie: english scotish south african austrialian etc etc ) but i dont think its your normal point of veiw but you should ask your self serious questions about why you get so upset over nothing .


i take into account how bloody hard english is to learn , the fact they may not have had the oportunities to learn languages

you have the choice not to pay for a service if you dont think it is good enough.

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Originally Posted by klein4

you have the choice not to pay for a service if you dont think it is good enough.

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indeed and the company in question wont get another cent from me.

Yeah but you were already ****ed off enough to be asking for the managers name and number

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Originally Posted by klein4

We are actually a country in our own right not a province of Britain.

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Sorry did someone dispute that? I wasn’t aware that the discussion being held was on an issue specific to Ireland or that the thread was one only people in Ireland could contribute to. I’m often the first to say to the english that they can’t complain about immigrants as they were the ones that went out to get an empire in the first place, but I don’t think all of their current immigration can be put down to the empire, Britain’s also had some economic growth and also experienced the same wave of Eastern European migration following the expansion of the EU. If you check out other countries news sites you’ll find immigration is an issue being discussed in many countries and my attitude's the same, fine disagree with government policies but don't take it out on the migrants.

In my opinion- you are not racist but there is a degree of ignorance. I once held the same view as you (which I totally regret) but think about it:

-You're driven out of your country through proverty/impression/attack/forced marraige/corrupt police force
-You come to Ireland/UK desperate to find a new life (though you miss your family and home country a lot you know you cannot go back)
-You want to learn English (come on no "foreigner" deliberatly wants to be isolated through lack of language skills)
-You also need to earn money to live (most people int his situation work every hour God sends)
-You don't have the time or money to learn English before going to work-you have to go straight there-you also figure out than constant contact with people through work you will pick up English quicker than sitting in your flat reading books (true fact)

Give them a chance!

Yes the guy who said "it's your language you write it down" was in the wrong but most immigrants don't have this attitude. Most are desperate to learn English and fit in-believe me I've seen it. Give them a chance and just remember they are facing hardships and are just trying their best. They probably don't want to work 18 hours in a shop to pay the rent on their cramped flat but they have to start somewhere and unfortunatley its lower down than us who are privelaged enough to come out with qualifications and fluent grasp of the language of the country.
And I'm not saying every "immgirant" has been beaten up by facist soldiers or climbed over borders to escape execution (though lot's have) but I think you'll find the majority didn't want to leave their homes and famileis in the first place and are jsut trying their hardest in a difficult new land which is intimidating enough without not speaking the language.

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Originally Posted by liam88

And I'm not saying every "immgirant" has been beaten up by facist soldiers or climbed over borders to escape execution (though lot's have) but I think you'll find the majority didn't want to leave their homes and famileis in the first place and are jsut trying their hardest in a difficult new land which is intimidating enough without not speaking the language.

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Not disagreeing with your sentiments but this passage is untrue. The VAST majority of nonEU nationals in Ireland are voluntarily migrant

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Yeah but you were already ****ed off enough to be asking for the managers name and number

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i was but that was due to a desicion the manager made in relation to store policy and not anything personal against the employee in person, they were only doing what the manager told them to do.

it was the comment, "its your language, you write it" that pushed my buttons. if he had said my english isn't very good i would have said nothing but it was his attitude and the way he said it.

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Originally Posted by anto1208

i take into account how bloody hard english is to learn , the fact they may not have had the oportunities to learn languages

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Fair point but I feel in order for these people to be allowed to come here and work their should be a pre-requisite that they have at least a fundamental understanding of the language