I think we can disagree of different flavours of the road issues but we can all agree the governemnt is doing sh!te job in this area for which there is no excuse.
I think we can disagree of different flavours of the road issues but we can all agree the governemnt is doing sh!te job in this area for which there is no excuse.
Yeah, doubt they'll be too many arguements with that. Some kind of policy, even if I didn't agree with it, would be progress...Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
well said, its all a numbers game and with cullen at th helm little will change :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
There are so many problems with this issue it will take years to sort.I do agree that drivers are responcible for there own actions but it's down to more than just that.
Driver Education
There are to many idiots on the road.So many people on our roads have no idea how to drive or drive with due care and attention.Fools not dipping their lights.Driving up your arse and tail gating you.Idiots who constantly brake everytime a vehicle approaches.People who hug the white line and won't move over to let you pass them.I could go on and on but firstly the government need to provide a proper driver education course.
Enforcement
Most people break the rules of the road because they know the chances of them getting caught are very small.Most speed checkpoints are in 50 or 60km zones and these areas are much safer as they are usually lit up,have footpaths and are well marked out.If there is a speed checkpoint around most people will flash you and let you know one is up ahead.I have never come across a drink driving checkpoint in all my years of driving.
If the rules of the road were enforced rigorously and people were afraid of being caught this would greatly reduce road deaths.People who break the law should be punished and for enforcement to take place there needs to be a dedicated road traffic corps which works around the clock every day of the year with every resource at it's disposal for this to work.Lets be honest,there is no chance of that happening.Cases being thrown out of court on technicalities is rediculous.No matter what,if you broke the law and the facts are there to prove it then that should be enough.
The State of the roads
It is a disgrace that in this day and age we are still driving on sub standard roads.Pot holes, no markings, poor signage and so on all make driving on our roads dangerous.Every road should be or a minimum width by law and have clear markings,cats eyes and reflective posts and all signs should be further from bends,junctions ect.. and be replective so they are easy to spot.Hedgerows should be constantly trimmed and removed at all juntions to allow clear sight lines and all road surfaces should be pot hole free and turn into skating rinks once wet.I pay over €500 road tax each year along with the tax i pay on diesel and some of the roads in this country are of 3rd world standard.It's just not acceptable and it's time the government acted.The only problem is that they show an interest for a while and when the hype dies down it's swept under the carpet.
Don't have time to discuss the other topics but on this one i echo Dricky's sentiments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dricky
I have passed the National Driving Test, the Hibernian Ignition course (run by IAM) and the IAM Advanced Driving Course, which i will choose to 'top-up' every 24 months or so. By far, the most inadequate in terms of testing or proving one's driving abilities is the National Car Test. The approach taken by testers is ridiculously "by the book". It is a one-off, practically useless, waste of time, energy and money.
I don't know the figures off hand but I know those who have completed the IAM Advanced course have a significantly decreased chance of being involved in an accident. This, i believe, is because you are genuinely taught how to drive safely. The promotion of the application of 'defensive driving' i.e. actively trying to prevent an accident from occurring, regardless of who's at fault. A friend of mine has been driving on a provisional for quite some time now and still breaches the rules by driving without full licence holder in car, driving on motorways, etc. One thing I often pick him up on is when he looks for confirmation that if 'this guy on the roundabout' had hit him he wouldn't have been at fault. It's almost as if he couldn't care if the accident happened or not. And this is typical of the passive aggressive attitude that preparing for the National Test creates. i.e. As long as you stick to the rules, your A OK.
In my view, preparation for the car test needs to be reviewed along with the test. Modularisation should be looked at. There are many 'subject' areas in driving skills and these should tested seaparately - not in one 20 minute drive around an urban area. Candidates should have proof of their attendance at certified courses. Privatisation may need to be looked at here with two/three year term contracts partially based on improvements in road safety.
The amount of road deaths is a sad reflection on our society. Wanton waste of often young lives. Ignorance, inability and negligence are all to play in this but there is no system in place to prevent drivers displaying these symptons from obtaining licences.
I think thats an important point about standards in this country. I've been driving for 10 years & never had an accident as i feel i'm fairly attentive (we have the odd scare) anticipating other drivers actions. Too many people in this country are ignorant of any other user of the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by fosterdollar
I also wish the media were able to broadcast the real cause of a crash. What we get at the moment is: "Two killed in a road 'accident' in Co. Carlow".
I wish they were able to say something like: "the 23-year old female was using her mobile phone at the time, which caused the crash" or "the 55-year old man was tailgating, when the car in front had to stop suddenly" or "if the young guy had been going 10km/h slower the little girl probably would have survuved".
They can't do it now, presumably because of libel laws, but if the public were constantly being reminded of how accidents really do happen (time and time again), then maybe they might re-evaluate their own driving behaviour.
Well then human nature is what has to be changed not endless legislation. It is very simple, you are getting in a vehicle going at least 50kph, therefore it's not the safest method of travel in the world unless you are capable of handling the said vehicle. And therein lies the problem people think they can drive, but cannot. I'm sure everyone on this site and everywhere else could come up with another piece of legislation to 'help' with road deaths and road safety. This though will not stop the 'carnage'. No matter what legislation comes in, Irish people will settle into old habits again the effectiveness of the penalty points shows this. The same if not more deaths are occurring - and regardless of how detailed the penalty points system is, the old habits will return.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
When you buy a packet of peanuts, you take the responsibility that you will not choke on them or have an allergy to them, yet you still see "may contain traces of nuts" because the company has to cover themselves because some will not take responsibility for themselves and blame the company. If you decide you can eat them safely, then once you buy them, it is your responsibility. Similar to a car, once you start a journey - you are responsible for the car. The car does not do anything you don't make it. The story: "The car hit a wall". No, it didn't. The driver drove the car into a wall is the accurate story. I have heard on the Big Bite today that a father was complaining about his daughter killed because the car skid on loose chippings (?) on a Donegal road and he was blaming the county council for not signposting the chippings. If the car was being driven safely through the loose chippings, I doubt whether it would skid. How many cars had been through that stretch of road before and after and managed not to skid? This is a prime case of blaming the council/government for something where the driver was solely at fault.
The driving test cannot test how people react on a foggy morning or similar unsuspecting hazard, it can just go through the theory and hope that the person will have gained enough experience to cope with the problem at the time.
Driving is taken for granted. Everyone thinks they can drive. I say this as a test taker soon enough. I want to be able to drive, but at this rate I don't see myself driving very much when I see the lunatics on the road. I don't know how I would react, but I know that I wouldn't be blaming the council or government.
It will be my responsibility to ensure that I am capable enough to drive my car from a to b safely. This regardless of enforcement of already ridiculous amounts of legislation and whatever state the roads are in. If safety is dependent on roads being perfect, we have some shocking drivers in Ireland - you should be capable of driving on any surface if you are to take the wheel.
It is time for drivers to take the responsibility for their mistakes. What I see as the causes of death are irresponsibility and being too quick to blame the Government like everything else it seems in this country. Driving a car etc. is not as routine or easy as some people think it is - if you were use to a plane as often as we do a car, eventually you'll be on a flight where something goes wrong.
I'd love to know how many road journeys are taken in this country in one year to see the percentage of journeys that cause death to the amount of journeys. I am sick of the emphasis on speed in this country. Every single time you get in a car, you can die - either going at 10kph or 1000kph.
Perhaps if concentration was focussed on the road rather than interminably at the Government the number might decrease somewhat. Ultimately the Government is a much easier target than human nature, I suppose.
I find it hard to take your post seriously after that comment.Quote:
Driving is taken for granted. Everyone thinks they can drive. I say this as a test taker soon enough. I want to be able to drive, but at this rate I don't see myself driving very much when I see the lunatics on the road.
Given that the full test is basically sh!te anyone who cannot pass (even if this means they just learn to drive in a test passing manner) such an easy test should not be on the road.
No one is going to dispute that irish people are idiots on the road & need to change their habits but such is life that a stick is required to beat those habits out of people. Anyone who says they have never broken the speed limit is either a lier or does not drive.
Well a small percentage of those killed on the roads last year, were immigrants from the EU states who are used to driving on the other side of the road.
Some of the worst and most dangerous driving i have seen has been from Northern and Non national drivers.I know they're not the only offenders but i was coming out of my estate one morning and i witnessed right in front of me a non national driver who couldn't even get the car to move without it jumping and stalling it.Before she knew it she was out in the middle of a busy road.I walked up to the car and offered to move it out of the middle of the road and she gave out to me and told me to leave her alone.Some other lady rang the Gaurds and i don't know what came of it but these are the type of people we have to deal with on our roads.As long as there is no enforcement and weak penalties to those who do get caught then people will break the law.You need to put the fear of god in people and have them think that they will be caught and when caught they will pay the penalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie
To be fair, that's just an example of unqualified drivers being able to drive on our roads. Nationality doesn't come into it. Most of the shít driving I see is in Irish reg cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiseguy
It's all very well people going on about deficiencies of the test, but lets get everyone on the roads through that first. It's the equivalent of people wanting to reduce the drink drive limit when the majority caught are at least 2 times over the present limit. Enforce what we have first, then look at improving it.
crc - I whole heartedly agree with giving the causes of accidents. The safety council says speed kills, but then it came out in the drink driving campaign before christmas that most deaths involve drink. We need a proper break down of the causes of the accidents, the road conditions (including markings, potholes etc), time of night, speed etc to make informed decisions. It would help with enforcement too, as with proper back up they can justify where their focusing resources.
Well I have long believed the following maxim
Yellow licence plate 3 letters 4 numbers = homicidal maniac :D
not only that but southern irish drivers driving on english licences can't get points so speed away.....Quote:
Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie
also out of 50 or so dead on our roads so far this year, 9 are from eastern europe, that is alomost 20% and a large number
I wouldn't say that, as they still get the fines and the points are backdated if you ever get an Irish licence. Also the cops give you shít (even at checkpoints etc), and say you have to change even when legally you can keep another eu licence for ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by max power
My UK licence gets me cheaper insurance as the standard of testing is higher, and it's valid till i'm 65 so I don't have a stealth tax every few years to renew it. I don't keep it to avoid points, as it will still affect your insurance by having the conviction whether points are applied or not.
Thing is, people in the north will say the same about irish plates up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie
does the picture ever change, i can imagine a 65 year old being stopped with a pic of him when he is 17 :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Macy
i can understand the garda givin you sh1t and its good to know the insurance companies realise the british test is of a higher standard and cost insurance in line with it.
What photo?Quote:
Originally Posted by max power
But legally I'm entitled to hold it. Cops will tell you otherwise, but that's they're problem, they can see me in court over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by max power
the one on your licence ????Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
No photo on an old style UK licence. Think new ones now have to be photo one's, but sure I'll worry about that around about that around 2041. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by max power
Correction, valid till I'm 70, so 2046.