IFA and the Maze

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22/01/2006, 8:12 PM
Dassa

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

The job .... fair play to them. It was a no brainer but its good the made the right choice. All boads well for footie up north.

Its far from the right choice we currently have 14,000 fans attending matches and the stadium is going to be 42,000 where are these extra fans coming from. Would ROI fans be happy if the government took away Landsdowne and built you a stadium miles outside of Dublin in a field with no amenities. All the fun of going to international matches the craic in the city before the matches with away fans will be gone. the day the stadium is opened is the end of football up here

New stadium for Belfast is only sensible option.

This idea that it is only Belfast people against the Maze is nonsense, Im from Armagh and so the Maze would be closer for me than Belfast.
22/01/2006, 8:48 PM
Speranza

How have you not come across any sectarian element Linfield fans sing The Billy Boys and other "party" songs as they call them.
22/01/2006, 9:42 PM
anto eile

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerrit

Geographically Windsor is excellently located, the facilities are there already, the only thing one can have against it is that it is property of Linfield. But Linfield have clearly done good effords to lose the sectarian element, so maybe the IFA should look forward instead of looking back, and looking forward means that both location-wise and money-wise expanding Windsor would be a better idea than a stadium somewhere in the outskirts of Lisburn.

very naive/innnocent/foolish comments gerrit
22/01/2006, 10:28 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dassa

Its far from the right choice we currently have 14,000 fans attending matches and the stadium is going to be 42,000 where are these extra fans coming from.

14,000? Windsor Park holds 20,000+ i thought, is Windsor not full on match day? Anyway, the fact that it is not Windsor might mean there will be more crowds there, nad the fact that it will be modern etc.
Also the fact that ye are beating sides like England for fun might mean a few new faces too yeah !?!

Quote:

Would ROI fans be happy if the government took away Landsdowne and built you a stadium miles outside of Dublin

Yeah, estatic ... and i have the prefect place for it in Cork !! :eek: :p

Quote:

All the fun of going to international matches the craic in the city before the matches with away fans will be gone.

I doubt that .... matchday will still be great, even if it were on the moon, you'll still have a good laugh.
23/01/2006, 12:12 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dassa

Its far from the right choice we currently have 14,000 fans attending matches and the stadium is going to be 42,000 where are these extra fans coming from. Would ROI fans be happy if the government took away Landsdowne and built you a stadium miles outside of Dublin in a field with no amenities. All the fun of going to international matches the craic in the city before the matches with away fans will be gone. the day the stadium is opened is the end of football up here

New stadium for Belfast is only sensible option.

This idea that it is only Belfast people against the Maze is nonsense, Im from Armagh and so the Maze would be closer for me than Belfast.

Feck Dassa - ROI fans would be ecstatic if they got a stadium out of the FAI on the moon !

And as for building stadiums miles outside of cities in a field with no amenities - well everyone seems to love the Stade de France...
23/01/2006, 1:40 AM
Dassa

windsor holds 14,000 seated and thats international capacity. Stadiums built outside of cities arent normally a success you just have to look at new stadium on the outskirts of Istanbull were there has been alot of complaints about distance to be travelled.

I dont believe either that most ROI fans would be happy to have stadium built out in the country with no railway station near it or atmosphere around it.
23/01/2006, 10:31 AM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dassa

windsor holds 14,000 seated and thats international capacity. Stadiums built outside of cities arent normally a success you just have to look at new stadium on the outskirts of Istanbull were there has been alot of complaints about distance to be travelled.

If the government said they would not redevelop Lansdowne but would build a 60-70k seater stadium for free outside Dublin then ROI fans would accept it. Redeveloping Windsor surely gives Linfield an unfair advantage financially?
23/01/2006, 11:59 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

If the government said they would not redevelop Lansdowne but would build a 60-70k seater stadium for free outside Dublin then ROI fans would accept it. Redeveloping Windsor surely gives Linfield an unfair advantage financially?

Spot on Peter.

Dassa - beggers can't be choosers. ROI fans would love exclusive use of Croke Park, or a brand new shiny 50,000 seater slap-bang in a nice part of Dublin with lots of trams, DARTS, trains and pubs nearby. But meanwhile, back on Planet Earth, they ain't gonna get that, so they have to be happy with the next best option.

He who pays the piper and all that. Of course everyone wants the ideal - but if the ideal isn't available, do you just sit and wallow in muck instead, or get on with the best you can get under the circumstances ? If the fans want a stadium in Belfast, fine - build it yourselves.....

If it was my choice I'd make it one of the few things that ever got put west of the Bann.... :D
23/01/2006, 1:24 PM
Dassa

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

ROI fans would love exclusive use of Croke Park, or a brand new shiny 50,000 seater slap-bang in a nice part of Dublin with lots of trams, DARTS, trains and pubs nearby.

I do not want the redevelopment of Windsor, I just want NI to be treated like the other parts of the UK. Scotland,England and Wales all got huge financial backing for their stadiums built in city centres and the ROI will have Landsdowne which is in Dublin. the government lies of no alternative sites just doesnt wash its blackmail and if the IFA fall for it it will be a terrible decision.
23/01/2006, 1:34 PM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

ROI fans would love... a brand new shiny 50,000 seater slap-bang in a nice part of Dublin with lots of trams, DARTS, trains and pubs nearby.

Like the planned redevelopment of Lansdowne, you mean?
23/01/2006, 2:03 PM
thejollyrodger

The decision to put the stadium out in the H Block is a DISATER !!!!!!!!!
23/01/2006, 2:06 PM
thejollyrodger

Shelbourne should be given the home ground of Landsdowne road when its redeveloped
23/01/2006, 2:40 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dassa

the government lies of no alternative sites just doesnt wash its blackmail and if the IFA fall for it it will be a terrible decision.

Jebus, its hardly lies in fairness, there is a site that can be redeveloped and they are choosing to do it, fair play. the 'no alternative sites' is probably due to costs and planning etc. ..... they have to be practical. Dassa, i dunno fella, i really dont think it would be that bad, it might not be ideal but its hardly dooms day or anything.
23/01/2006, 6:05 PM
motorcycleman

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

It's not a mindset. It was an exaggeration to try to highlight the complexity of the situation to a consitently naive Belgian. I suppose you'll use it anyway to claim that I'm advocating ethnic cleansing of the Village before any Fenian dares to set foot at a Norn Iron game..... :rolleyes:
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As for the Brandywell :
Firstly - it isn't, nor does it claim to be, and nor has it ever claimed to be, a 'national stadium'.
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I never said the Brandywell claimed to be a national stadium.
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Secondly - given the demographics of the City of Derry in general, and the West Bank of ther Foyle in particular - it should come as no surprise that the ground is in a nationalist area. Shock horror....
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Yes it is in a nationalist area where demographics of the west bank of the city has changed due to the ethnic cleansing of thousands of unionists from the Fountain etc over the last 35 years.
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Thirdly - how welcoming is the Oval to the Nationalist community or 'Solitude' to the Unionist community ? And what feckin relevance does it have to a national stadium anyway ??
Fourthly - how welcoming is "anywhere in the Republic of Ireland" to the Unionst community ?!?! :eek: Oh dear - I think that's the only mndset being exposed here. Start by asking the numerous Orange bands who happily and peacefully march in Donegal every 12th July. Then progress onto taking a wee trip south of the border yourself sometime. You might just be surprised...
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You might just be surprised to know that I was born and live well below the border.Why was there such intimidation and threats made last year in Cork where they felt it unsafe to take part in the St. Patrick's day parade when Cork was European capital of culture and in Dublin a few years ago when the a simple ceremony had to abandoned to mark the 200th anniversary of the founding of the order.
The point is to openly display or even mention anything pro-British in the Republic is to be met with derision,suspiscion,exclusion or subtle intimidation.
So we say nothing for a quiet life.
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Again with the embattled mindset, and the feeling that Northern Ireland football has somehow been bending over backwards to breaking-point in doing all within its grasp to keep those pesky Fenians happy. Oh dear...
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N.I. football has been doing something,what has the R.of I. been doing ?
As for the Maze site ,the thought of visitors milling around before a match visiting the proposed H-Block musuem is sickening.
It should be built in Belfast where the infrastructure would be better.
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No to stupidity....

Exactly
23/01/2006, 7:02 PM
Gerrit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speranza

How have you not come across any sectarian element Linfield fans sing The Billy Boys and other "party" songs as they call them.

When did you last visit a Linfield game? I visited several recently and live in a quarter of Belfast where Linfield is supported more than any other team ; I have up until now not heard the Billy Boys a single time. And no, I have also not heard the Sash yet (although that song is not even sectarian) and have not heard any anti-catholic song. This may come as a huge shock to you, but unlike Rangers, Linfield has changed and has cleaned out its closet. Even DCFCSteve, who is strongly nationalist, has agreed with the good anti-sectarian effords made by Linfield.

Linfield is still unionist, yet not sectarian anymore. Unless you consider a Union Jack banner as sectarian, which would however be a bit stupid. Join me to a game at Windsor, or join me to the Linfield supporters pub around the corner of my street. You will not hear any song about Fenian blood.
23/01/2006, 8:43 PM
Raheny Red

Quote:

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
Shelbourne should be given the home ground of Landsdowne road when its redeveloped

:eek: :confused: :eek:

Are you being serious here??

I would love to see Shels in a 40,000-50,000 seater stadium but
our attendances are sh�t in a 12,000 capacity stadia. It would be like a fcuking ghost town in Lansdowne!!
23/01/2006, 8:57 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dassa

I do not want the redevelopment of Windsor, I just want NI to be treated like the other parts of the UK. Scotland,England and Wales all got huge financial backing for their stadiums built in city centres and the ROI will have Landsdowne which is in Dublin. the government lies of no alternative sites just doesnt wash its blackmail and if the IFA fall for it it will be a terrible decision.

Since when were Wembley or Murrayfield in city centres ? You can just about manage the walk out of central Edinburgh to Murrayfield (primarily because there is no other way of getting there or back faster though), but try walking from Leicester Square to Wembley !!

You'll be claiming next that Twickenham is a city centre ground too..... :eek:
23/01/2006, 9:00 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

Like the planned redevelopment of Lansdowne, you mean?

No - that's not an FAI ground - which is what I was talking about.

The FAI could technically be hoofed out of there at any time
23/01/2006, 9:28 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorcycleman

I never said the Brandywell claimed to be a national stadium.

So what relevance did it have to a discussion on the national stadium then ??:confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorcycleman

Yes it is in a nationalist area where demographics of the west bank of the city has changed due to the ethnic cleansing of thousands of unionists from the Fountain etc over the last 35 years.

Oh sweet lord - I've heard it all now ! You, sir, are an idiot if you even jokingly believe this. Derry managed to avoid anything like serious inter-community trouble - unlike large sections of the rest of the province. You mention the Fountain - you mean that area that is still a protestant stronghold ? Not very good at ethnic cleansing are we !

So - with you being the expert on Derry, would you care to list for me the parts of the Cityside that, being formerly Protestant, saw demographic change due to ethnic cleansing ? Culmore ? Culmore Rd ? Northlands ? Duncreggan ? All areas that had a significant protestant population, but no longer do (though Culmore still does). Have you even heard of any of these parts of Derry ?? I can guarantee you that those changes in demographics were both gradual, and by no means due to ethnic cleansing. As happened throughout Northern Ireland in the Troubles, the two communities slowly gravitated towards areas populated primarily by their own community. Yes - a lot of this was for perceived 'safety', but ethnic cleansing is a phrase that strongly suggests a heavily coercive/enforced/violent motivation behind it. Like what the Catholic community suffered in Bombay Street in Belfast in 1969. Now - THAT was ethnic cleansing. So too was a period of the IRA's border campaign in the 70's, where they targetted the sons of protestant farmers to prevent the land staying in protestant family hands. That was ethnic cleansing. There was none of anything even vaguely near any of that in Derry. And you are a f u c k i n g delusional muppet for even suggesting this.... :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorcycleman

You might just be surprised to know that I was born and live well below the border.Why was there such intimidation and threats made last year in Cork where they felt it unsafe to take part in the St. Patrick's day parade when Cork was European capital of culture and in Dublin a few years ago when the a simple ceremony had to abandoned to mark the 200th anniversary of the founding of the order.

Firstlky - why should that surprise me ? :confused: Secondly - don't play naive MCM. You know full well that the Orange Order (I assume you're referring to them - your Cork example in particular just says "they") is an incredibly divisive and anti-Catholic body. Substantial numbers of the protestant community north and south have deliberatly nothing to do with it themselves as a result. To hold-up treatmnet of the Orange Order as proof-evident of anti-protestantism would be like holding-up negative reaction to a Republican rally in Ballymena as evidence of anti-Catholicism. Neither would be accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorcycleman

The point is to openly display or even mention anything pro-British in the Republic is to be met with derision, suspiscion, exclusion or subtle intimidation. So we say nothing for a quiet life.

Ahhh - so now we get down to what you really mean. You're not claiming that being protestant is a problem in Ireland, but that being pro-British is. They are 2 entirely separate things, and very often do not overlap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorcycleman

As for the Maze site ,the thought of visitors milling around before a match visiting the proposed H-Block musuem is sickening.

If idiots wants to spend their cash wandering around a Maze museum - or anything else for that matter - you know what ? That's their right. That's democracy. You may feel happy with the thought of telling people what they can and can't do with their own time and money, but thankfully most of the world doesn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorcycleman

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

No to stupidity....

Exactly

Change begins at home MCM - change begins at home.....
24/01/2006, 2:15 AM
Dassa

Im sorry lads but this debate for me and NI fans has nothin to do with sectarianism or what religion people are. I dream of the day when every NI person can come and support their country in a match. but this can happen in a new stadium in Belfast aswell as the maze.

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