Michael Noonan's hoodie ban

i used to work in a off licence and we had to ban people wearing hoodies , hats or motor bike helmets , after being hit over the head with cans , punched head butted treatend with screw drivers knives and even guns i felt it was ok to impose what is a tiny request on the customer to take a hood down . and yes it cut the crime rate by at least 95 % in that shop anyway .

whats even more annoying about a nanny state is the people that are opposed to the laws they have to bring in , is taking down a hood really such a big deal i wear hoodies all the time if i was asked to remove the hood id have no problem what so ever , but thats because ive nothing to hide i suppose .

also with the asbo's people are very quick to dissmiss them , normally they are the same people that dont have scum drinking on the wall outside there house , trowing rubbish into there gardens , breaking windows , trowing horse sh1t at the house, kicking in doors , setting fire to the house , shouting abuse at them as they go about there day , stealing there car , writting grafety all over there house ... listening to either j ryan or joe duffy 's shows have highlighted such activities ..

asbo's work i really dont care if some scum bag has his liberties infringed on slighty im sick of do gooder's putting the criminal ahead of the victim

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Originally Posted by anto1208

listening to either j ryan or joe duffy 's shows have highlighted such activities ..

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And you were doing so well up to then...... :eek:

KOH

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Originally Posted by Peadar

You have to catch them and convict them first.
Think about it Adam.

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I don't get it Peadar, are you seriously trying to tell me that we should round up all guys in shopping centres with their hoods up, because they're criminals? Or because they're potential criminals? Both are misguided, dangerous precendents.

And isn't that why we should have more policemen and women on the beat, like we were promised? You don't think that would go some way to solving the problem?

And aren't you getting into Minority Report territory with this? I like watching bank robbery and burglary movies, and often fantasise afterwards about pulling off the ultimate non-violent bank job myself. Should I be arrested because I have the potential to succeed?

It's a ridiculous policy, I can't believe you're giving it any credence whatsoever.

adam

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

I don't get it Peadar, are you seriously trying to tell me that we should round up all guys in shopping centres with their hoods up, because they're criminals? Or because they're potential criminals?

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Bring back internment, it worked perfectly.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

I don't get it Peadar, are you seriously trying to tell me that we should round up all guys in shopping centres with their hoods up, because they're criminals? Or because they're potential criminals? Both are misguided, dangerous precendents.

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I think he is suggesting that you can be refused entry to retail premises if you are wearing a hood up which seems perfectly fine to me. At the moment retailers have no right to do this as would be discrimination.

There are too many freeloaders in society these days who content to steal from others so we have higher taxes & pay more for goods.

I suggest you live in Dublin for few months Adam as research.

The guards don't lock up innocent people - isn't it better to prevent the crime by arresting in advance? ;) Wouldn't it be great if the guards could arrest all the criminals they know breaking the law but can't catch?

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

And you were doing so well up to then...... :eek:

KOH

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how else are you going to hear such stories i dont live in a dodgy neighbourhood plenty of my mates do they tell me these stories but there isnt much point in me quoting them as no one here knows them ,so i used a reference most people would be familar with .

Mates tell lies. FACT. Its ****ing scare mongering f the highest order. Poxy evening herald and talk radio....

I think the hoodie ban is just being suggested as a proxy to a skanger ban.

To annoy stewards and the Guards at football games wear your hood up with your scarf over your face:D

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

Don't you guys get that this kind of idiocy is what led to the riots in Paris? Just because it's not religious doesn't mean it's not stupid.

Whatever happened to punishing people for committing crimes?

adam

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As Peader pointed out - if you can't identify them you can't convict them....

I am way more libertarian-minded than the average person, but I see no harm with asking people not to wear hoodies up in warm places where there is a fear of crime being committed by people using them to hide their identities.

Who the hell needs to wear a hoodie up inside a warm shopping centre anyway ?? It makes no sense. There is no justifiable reason for doing it, and it's as ridiculous as walking round with a big golf umbrella over your head in Dunnes Stores. People do plenty of weird things, but when some of those are closely associated with criminal activity - and in fact reduce the ability to counter criminal activity - then we shouldn't be surprised if the freedom to do those 'weird things' declines.

Aas there is no sensible reason for doing so, wearing a hoody up inside a warm shopping centre often suggests intent to hide one's identity in the pursuit of a criminal act. Carrying a knife doesn't mean you will ever do anything with that knife, but it's still suggests intent, and is therefore a crime. There's obviosuly a gulf between the two, but it goes to show that suggesting intent is considered illegal in other aspects of the law.

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Originally Posted by pete

The guards don't lock up innocent people - isn't it better to prevent the crime by arresting in advance? ;) Wouldn't it be great if the guards could arrest all the criminals they know breaking the law but can't catch?

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Wasn't that the unofficial policy of the Donegal Gardai for year.....? :eek:

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

I've been outed - stop sniggering down the back - usually I agree with your postings on politics and social issues. So much so that it saves me the bother of posting myself.

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Well - no-ones actually seen us togethEr in the same room at the same time (unless the 2002 Cup Final in Tolka is taken into account...) so we could actually be the same person....!

Wooo-ha-haa-HAAAA ! :D

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

As Peader pointed out - if you can't identify them you can't convict them.

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If we had enough cops on the beat, which is the real solution to this any many other problems, they would be much more likely to be apprehended. This is putting the cart after the horse, trying to fix things on the cheap. This is a politician - an unimaginative, failure of a politician - trying to budget my security.

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I am way more libertarian-minded than the average person, but I see no harm with asking people not to wear hoodies up in warm places

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Will the relevant locations be defined as warm/enclosed places in the legislation Noonan proposes? Ten gets you twenty they won't be, because legislators are notorious for writing open-ended legislation, particularly right-wingers (viz. "Patriot" Act).

And if I want to wear my hoody with the hood up in an enclosed, well-heated place, it's my damned right to do so. It's clothes ffs.

Clothes! CLOTHES! Would you listen to yourselves?

adam

That's ridiculous. Rerstricting what people wear is surely an infringement on human rights. And I thought FF were the right-wing party!!

....... And I thought FF were the right-wing party!![/QUOTE]

Didn't Charlie McCreevy say at the weekend that Bertie was one of three real socialists in the Dail:eek: He said Joe Higgins was another but didn't name the third one.

Could it be Noonan:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

I would encourage everyone to .... hide their identities. Big Brother has all the advantages, at least lets hang on to one for the little people.


KOH

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an interesting case. most countries dont allow anonymity,ireland is slightly less strict in the sense that were not obliged to carry id cards..though the shower of fascist ****s running this country are looking at this idea.

i remember a case in the usa about a year ago.a cop pulled over some fella who refused to give his name.got big coverage in papers and on tv about the right to anonymity

ban tracksuits being worn unless its for athletic purposes

Hats and sunglasses because they hide your eyes. Everything else because they could disguise tattoos, birthmarks, body frame, artificial limbs, penis length and girth. Then we can start using cellulite patterns as an identifier and have this information logged in horrendously insecure RFID tags implanted under our skin. Live life in the nude, tracked constantly.

You think this is exaggeration? Look at America for chrissake! If you want to go there now you have to give a thumbprint in the airport, and you have no idea where that goes, or where it will go in the future. Social Security numbers are a commodity in the US, do you want your thumbprint to become one too?

adam

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

And if I want to wear my hoody with the hood up in an enclosed, well-heated place, it's my damned right to do so.

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And if a business owner wants to exclude you from his premises that's his right. I don't even see the need for a law.

Also, talking about numbers of guards is irelevant because they don't police shoplifters, private security does that.

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Originally Posted by Bald Student

And if a business owner wants to exclude you from his premises that's his right. I don't even see the need for a law.

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Exactly! There isn't. I absolutely guarantee that if a business owner did exclude someone because they were wearing a hoodie with the hood up, and it went right to the top of the court system available to Irish people (the European Court of Human Rights), it would go in favour of the business owner. That's what makes this whole thing such garbage, such blatant bandwagon jumping by that hack of a politician.

Like I said, if these muppets had our best interests at heart, they'd be promising more guards on the street. A lot more. And they'd follow through on that promise, unlike the current bunch of pathological liars. And Irish people would have the brains not to vote for those pathological liars again.

Course now I'm living in la-la-land, where Irish people vote with their brains, not with the encouragement of collective stupidity, and newspapers not good enough for lining a budgie's cage.

adam