Cork City boos - what's going on?

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Cork (city) has a population of 224k in a county of 584k, with only Cobh for local competition. As of end-April their average attendance was 4.3k
Contrast that with Sligo Rovers, who are attracting 3.4k crowds in a town of 20k and a county of 70k. And all this in a season where Sligo's results have been little better than Cork's.

Obviously they are at opposite ends of the spectrum and these figures are at much a reflection of Sligo's outstanding crowds as they are of Cork's low crowds. But I still fail to see how one may disagree with the 'safe argument' [bold] of my point, when the figures are so stark.

Isn't all that supportive of the point that Cork's diehard support is actually quite low, with their "bandwagon" support being (potentially) very high?

As I say, I'm not having a pop, merely curious as to why this should be.

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Different sporting profile areas though. Sligo do great work and I'm not taking away from that at all, but they've less competition. City are up against Cork GAA and occasionally Munster Rugby - the latter being a 5 minute walk down the road from the Cross.

Connaught play nowhere near Sligo, Sligo has no hurling team, and their Gaelic Football team are a division three level side that hasn't competed seriously for any trophy of note for decades.

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Originally Posted by Crosshead

Different sporting profile areas though. Sligo do great work and I'm not taking away from that at all, but they've less competition. City are up against Cork GAA and occasionally Munster Rugby - the latter being a 5 minute walk down the road from the Cross.

Connaught play nowhere near Sligo, Sligo has no hurling team, and their Gaelic Football team are a division three level side that hasn't competed seriously for any trophy of note for decades.

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Hmmm. When you consider Cork (city and county) has around 10 x times the catchment, I still don't buy the "competition" argument as completely explaining the disparity.

Or do GAA and Rugby crowds also rise and fall depending on on-field success?

And in any case, don't many sports fans support more than one code?

(Not having a pop at you, Crosshead, or other regular City fans, merely curious)

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Hmmm. When you consider Cork (city and county) has around 10 x times the catchment, I still don't buy the "competition" argument as completely explaining the disparity.

Or do GAA and Rugby crowds also rise and fall depending on on-field success?

And in any case, don't many sports fans support more than one code?

(Not having a pop at you, Crosshead, or other regular City fans, merely curious)

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Perhaps you can ask in the relative active Cork AUL thread on the forum or factor in the MSL? MSL is a de facto regionalised third tier of football in Ireland and all top MSL clubs are based in and around the city of Cork (would imagine the standard is similar to the Championship in the north). Cork City is the only LOI club in the city, but it would be incorrect to assume the club has a monopoly on the footballing public in the city. Galway, Sligo, Waterford doesn’t have a MSL- standard equivalent.

The Cork AUL Thread facinates me.
The LOI is becoming more mainstream these days but i used to regard myself as something of a niche loving lunatic who other people semi pitied.............and then i discovered there were people keeping a forum going about the MSL and started to feel like i was mainstream :)

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Originally Posted by Crosshead

I don't think you should underestimate Friday's performance. The supporters had been tolerant to a point because the players were at least putting a shift in, and many of the losses were due to late concessions.

Friday though, was abysmal. Only Troost can say he played well and a good few of them looked like they were still feeling the midseason break poolside cocktails.

Usher has over promised and underdelivered both on and off the pitch. He made big promises about improving the matchday experience that he hasn't come close to matching, simple things like the state of the toilets which is ironic given his background!

His biggest mistake IMO is ignoring Foras and not giving them a board position to advise him on the mood of the supporters. He's from Kildare, has no connection to Cork, and knows nothing about the fanbase.

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... and yet the fanbase voted him in.

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Originally Posted by redobit

... and yet the fanbase voted him in.

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100% Reaping what we've sown.

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Originally Posted by redobit

... and yet the fanbase voted him in.

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To be fair only FORAS members voted him in, which is a few hundred people at most. It was also really pushed through by the board at the time, as was the previous attempt to sell to Trevor Hemmings which really put the club in a bad situation when he didn't follow through. I was very disapointed with how the argument was framed by the board at the time of that first vote. It didn't feel like both sides were given the same opportunity to state their case, and they used cub employees to guilt a yes vote. I didn't even bother attending the second vote because it felt like it was only ever going to go one way.

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

To be fair only FORAS members voted him in, which is a few hundred people at most. It was also really pushed through by the board at the time, as was the previous attempt to sell to Trevor Hemmings which really put the club in a bad situation when he didn't follow through. I was very disapointed with how the argument was framed by the board at the time of that first vote. It didn't feel like both sides were given the same opportunity to state their case, and they used cub employees to guilt a yes vote. I didn't even bother attending the second vote because it felt like it was only ever going to go one way.

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I dont think you can really point the finger at FORAS when any Cork fan was able to join FORAS and have a vote, its sounds like er passing the buck. I know the fanbase is bigger than FORAS but they were the owners at the time and had to make a decision, one that was probably the least worst option considering how the fan model backfired in this case rather than protecting the exstance of the club starting with not overspending on players and budgeting on a wishlist of income streams. Im conscious too that if Dundalk had been fan owned that we too could have sold to an Ainscough. It does bring back in to question things like due diligence and getting things like supporter group's reps on a board which I think helps guage an owners attitude toward a fanbase.

If there was an obvious onesided agenda yup its tough but was there any dissenting voices really? It certainly wasnt general knowledge if there was. Tke the Rovers example where its was known generally that there were issues behind the scenes on concern about ownership and supporters ability to remain in the decision making process, among other stuff.

Crowds at Cork are ok, enough to sustain the club, higher than many or most, its just relative to past peaks and potential, but cutting the cloth and numbers are still good enough to be a PD club. Cork have struggled due to recruitment and not resources.The odd arrangement with the previous manager as an example.

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Originally Posted by Dalymountrower

So your point is that large Cork City attendances are based on success only
That may be true, but given the catchment area, it isa bit of a shocker that the core support is down to 2,500-2,700 or so
The fact that TX is a popular venue for way fans , brings the average up , but 25 Euro will dissuade a lot of those away punters.
I am old enough to remember C Celtic and Hibs derby games getting 15 k.
50% of that on a regular basis is what Usher needs to be aiming for.A drop to 30 euro might help that.

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Well most teams increased attendances over the years in the LOI are based on success, which is a reasonable fact. I think that Usher and the club have a budget based on attendance figures of 3-4,000.
The fact is that the Cork soccer public will return to the TX if there is an improvement in form and results. If the new manager Nash can turn things around you will see this reflected in the home attendances.
There is a following for all sport in Cork, the GAA have an element that follow a winning team as they have only 4/5 games to attend which if they are lucky 2/3 are in the Pairc!
The Rogby have a set following who are tied to their clubs and Munster with a big following from Limerick even when the home games are in Musgrave Park!

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

To be fair only FORAS members voted him in, which is a few hundred people at most. It was also really pushed through by the board at the time, as was the previous attempt to sell to Trevor Hemmings which really put the club in a bad situation when he didn't follow through. I was very disapointed with how the argument was framed by the board at the time of that first vote. It didn't feel like both sides were given the same opportunity to state their case, and they used cub employees to guilt a yes vote. I didn't even bother attending the second vote because it felt like it was only ever going to go one way.

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How did 70% get conned by it? A blind man could have seen through it despite its biased framing. And it was a bad biased framing at that. As a former member, the result of that vote turned me off the club and I’ve been to only 1 game since. It made no sense and city are now in the predicted death loop. These things are totally connected.

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Originally Posted by Dalymountrower

A drop to 20 Euro, is what I meant.
Usher's tariffs on fans are not at the 30 euro lel ..yet!

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The price of Cork GAA tickets varies depending on the competition and the type of ticket. For the Allianz Leagues, adult tickets are €20 with student/OAP AT €15. In the Munster & All-Ireland Championship, stand tickets for games are €50 while terrace tickets are €40, and U16 tickets are €10.

According to the Munster Rugby tickets can start as low as €20, with family packs of four at €55 also available for certain games.

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Originally Posted by Crosshead

Different sporting profile areas though. Sligo do great work and I'm not taking away from that at all, but they've less competition. City are up against Cork GAA and occasionally Munster Rugby - the latter being a 5 minute walk down the road from the Cross.

Connaught play nowhere near Sligo, Sligo has no hurling team, and their Gaelic Football team are a division three level side that hasn't competed seriously for any trophy of note for decades.

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Not really up on GAA but I don't think the respective counties of Athlone, Longford, Bray, Dundalk, Drugs or Monaghan and Kildare when they were in football were setting Croke Park on fire in my lifetime and most of those places expect maybe Bray are culturally if not geographically distant from ruggers without packing out their football stadiums.

Kildare were definitely significant GAA players in the late Nineties/early 2000s, Monaghan had an excellent decade-long run from 2008-18, and Westmeath did win their only Leinster title in 2004. As for Louth, they're proving at the minute that it's possible for local teams from multiple sports to be simultaneously successful.

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Originally Posted by culloty82

As for Louth, they're proving at the minute that it's possible for local teams from multiple sports to be simultaneously successful.

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So long as it doesn't involve any geographical navigation ;)

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

The Cork AUL Thread facinates me.
The LOI is becoming more mainstream these days but i used to regard myself as something of a niche loving lunatic who other people semi pitied.............and then i discovered there were people keeping a forum going about the MSL and started to feel like i was mainstream :)

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Hey now , Dont get us CORK AUL people confused with the MSL people . the MSL thread is dead just like the CBL thread

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Originally Posted by Neish

So long as it doesn't involve any geographical navigation ;)

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I didnt know whether to laugh or cry!! The most Louth GAA...thing...ever and thats saying something, like putting a landmark in Meath on the Louth crest, having that pointed out, but the county secretary being so sure he was right he ordered thousands of repica shirts so the crest had to stay for over a decade...that level of stupid!

Im not too worried about an improving Louth impacting on our LoI clubs, certainly not until the county ground is built (ye know how quickly these things get done) and games could clash. Horse and dog racing is the main competition on Friday nights. There is a good rugby tradition in Dundalk, even in AIL for a season or 2 not so long ago, towns cuo gets crowds up to Mill Rd, but not having a top class stadium in the county means nnot having the provincial side roll in every so often like in Cork.

I suspect Usher will sort Cork out in the end. He has made it very much a personal issue for him and he has the money to sort it.
Unless of course he gets fed up with the abuse.

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

I didnt know whether to laugh or cry!! The most Louth GAA...thing...ever and thats saying something, like putting a landmark in Meath on the Louth crest, having that pointed out, but the county secretary being so sure he was right he ordered thousands of repica shirts so the crest had to stay for over a decade...that level of stupid!

Im not too worried about an improving Louth impacting on our LoI clubs, certainly not until the county ground is built (ye know how quickly these things get done) and games could clash. Horse and dog racing is the main competition on Friday nights. There is a good rugby tradition in Dundalk, even in AIL for a season or 2 not so long ago, towns cuo gets crowds up to Mill Rd, but not having a top class stadium in the county means nnot having the provincial side roll in every so often like in Cork.

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Why would the new stadium in Dundalk have any issue, compared to now

Club games will still be played the odd Friday night

Louth will have at most 4 maybe 3 home league games in the league, plus no more than 2 or 3 champ games at home a season all played on a Saturday or Sunday

Just an opinion of course, but if the Cork fans want they're club to stay in the division they are gonna need to get behind their players and team not spend their time chastising the owner.
Cork need to find a way to finish 9th and then they should have too much for either cobh or dundalk in the playoff.
The frustration is obvious and probably well needed on a club ownership level but in my opinion it won't help the team, and cork will bounce around the divisions for years to come.

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Originally Posted by dundalkfc10

Why would the new stadium in Dundalk have any issue, compared to now

Club games will still be played the odd Friday night

Louth will have at most 4 maybe 3 home league games in the league, plus no more than 2 or 3 champ games at home a season all played on a Saturday or Sunday

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In general I dont mean in a head to head way. But people follow success and for many still it will be a choice GAA or fooball, Louth or Dundalk/Drogheda. Louth have been for most of our lives mediocre at best and truly awful until now, a sustained period of real success, now moving on from just winning a provincial title and I think a signficant number of people will get their glory fix to the detriment of the LoI clubs. Add to this a new stadum exeperience at Louth games at all levels, high profile county games, maybe even other sports, if done well, it should be a concern for what Oriel and United Parks offer. Louth GAA will schedule games head to head if they take the notion and that will impact Dundalk most when the County Ground is built.

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Originally Posted by placid casual

Just an opinion of course, but if the Cork fans want they're club to stay in the division they are gonna need to get behind their players and team not spend their time chastising the owner.
Cork need to find a way to finish 9th and then they should have too much for either cobh or dundalk in the playoff.
The frustration is obvious and probably well needed on a club ownership level but in my opinion it won't help the team, and cork will bounce around the divisions for years to come.

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I dont think its unusual in LoI for 'fans' tp abaandon ship when they are needed most. Its easy supporting a winning team but who is left when things are floundering on or off the pitch is what a clubs support should be evaluated by, not really attendances at the height of success or potential crowds. Its fickle, I consider a good chunk of Dundalk support to be fickle and Cork in relative terms to be even more so. Bohs and Sligo I consider the opposite end of the spectrum.