Holy bejaysus - we are not back to this again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
Bazunu has been in excellent form for Southampton over the past 4/5months - indeed he is one of the main reasons that Southampton are doing so well.
We are very fortunate that we have two keepers who are performing at a high level for their respective clubs. I would have no problem with them each starting a game over the next two friendlies.
It would be a bit concerning for me if Kelleher didn't start at least one of the friendlies, given his recent opportunities/form. He's doing exactly what he should be doing, so it would send a very negative message if he was stuck to the bench for non-competitive matches like these.
Keane should be in there for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Unless he's suddenly dropped at club level, or starts throwing them in for Ireland, I think he is fairly bulletproof.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
Ah, this vague argument again. I don't think there's anything to back that up other than wishful thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Unfortunately the stats Jd has shown are valid (they explain why Arsenal signed Raya from Brentford in the summer, and why Brentford have dropped back so much this season) and he could have added save % or even match rating to it (one of the lowest in the division in both cases). He's made more errors than Kelleher and was targetted as a weak link by France per l'Equipe. It's quite legitimate to have concerns about his performance this season, while acknowledging that, at 22, this doesn't amount to writing him off.
Kelleher has exceeded expectations at Liverpool the last while. I think form has him currently far enough ahead of Bazunu that he has to be considered our number at the moment. Why wouldn't we play our strongest team?
I'd agree - with a very high degree of conviction - that Kelleher is deserving of the jersey now given the form he has been in since he same into the team. He has to sart at least one of the games.
I wish people would stop dismissing Bazunu though. He was MOTM in Amsterdam in a game we were battered in and generally had a very solid WC qualifying campaign, arguably looking stronger against the better teams. He had a ropey start to the club season, an excellent prolonged run mid-season and seems to have tailed off a bit lately, along with Southampton's general performances. He was getting the same kind of plaudits as Kelleher when winning - i.e., important saves at important times. Let's see how good Kelleher is from distance (Armenia away, Ukraine at home, Belgium at home, Latvia at home...) without Van Dijk and other global superstars ahead of him and he's relying on Josh Cullen and Nathan Collins stopping shots.
And Raya was putting the fear of God into Arsenal fans in the first 10 games of the season, so much so that opposition fans jeered him receiving the ball. But he settled down. The stats don't tell you that though.
Also not true to say Bazunu has been poor all season.
I'd have Kelleher ahead of him right now but ignoring that Bazunu helped Southampton to their longest uneaten run in history is a bit silly. He's in a bit of a bad patch again now and Kelleher is doing really well. With a new manager in I think the right call is to go with Kelleher but I wouldn't be worried about either. Plenty more concerns elsewhere.
I start Kelleher for the sake of rotation, prudent to use friendlies to give squad players playing time. Bazunu is still for me however our number one. Kelleher hasn't exceeded expectations btw - there were quite lofty prior to his run of games (best no.2). He has only exceeded expectations if he has dislodged Allison from the Liverpool starting line-up. Has it done that? I think he has done well but not enough to be considered equal to Allison.
bazunus shot stopping has been poor all season. you can see that clearly in his numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
I don't think anyone's dismissing him - I think what we're saying is if someone breaks through at one of the top clubs in the world, then that has to give that player a huge boost in terms of a starting position for us. And we're also noting that he hasn't had a great season, which again isn't dismissing him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Southampton have been winning games by dominating possession against teams - 70+% quite regularly, even away from home - and by battering teams into submission. 20 shots against Sunderland and 26 shots against Birmingham in their last two games for example. They're a bit Man City-esque in that regard - and I don't think many would say Ederson is "one of the main reasons that Man City are doing so well". His form certainly improved from the opening few games, but it can't be ignored that the outfield players were giving him less to do too.
He was decent in Amsterdam alright - I think it's worth noting he may have been our MotM, but he certainly wasn't overall MotM, which is quite a difference, and it would have been a different picture again had he not gotten lucky with the shot he let through his arms. I think there's feeling still though that you don't see many Southampton games where he's earned them a point.
The stats do take into account Raya's jittery opening btw - I'm not sure why you think they wouldn't. In fact, they show him with a poor PSxG figure this year (-2.5). But last year he was +5.0 (and so Arsenal signed him up) and this year Flekken is -7.3. Result is Brentford have already conceded ten more goals than last year, and are in a relegation battle whereas last year they were pushing for Europe. Obviously there's other factors in there too, and I would never argue the stats are correct to the decimal point. But like it or not, this sort of big data is very relevant.
Overlooking what Southampton fans were saying - that the run coincided with big saves at big times. 0-0 or 1-1 in games they'd go on to win 3-1. He made a super save against WBA recently. Match winning I think.
You're just nitpicking: dismissing, underplaying, whatever way you put it you just can't give him the credit he's due when he's due it. Even qualifying how he was only our MOTM in Holland.
My point about Raya isn't that big data isn't revealing, but rather that even with the data behind he can still suddenly be perceived as a weak link. I think he now has the confidence of everyone and brings calmness which goes beyond data.
Mad to think they went unbeaten for so long with a keeper playing badly all season. Makes you wonder if the numbers don't always tell the full story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
You don't need to knock Bazunu to think Kelleher is a better option right now.
Not knocking him at all. People on here get extremely defensive when any negative is thrown the way of bazunu. You cannot get away from what the numbers are telling you, whether you like it or not. He is the worst shot stopper in the championship. that is bad in anyones book and it should be a worry for us going forward as the drop in level from the PL hasnt helped him in this regard. Nobody is questioning his ability with the ball, even southampton fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
There's certain people on this forum who have not liked Bazunu from day one and have never let it go. It's pathetic really
Not nitpicking at all. I'm not dismissing him. I don't think I'm underplaying him either. I think others are giving him far too much credit, and see anything to the contrary as people not giving him credit. But that's circular logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
What's wrong with qualifying he was our MotM, and not (as you suggested) overall MotM? It's long been noted here that the practice of limiting MotM to Irish players is a bit of a farce, especially when we play badly overall.
I think you're arguing a point with Raya that I wasn't making. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance - so he can have been excellent for Brentford but a bit ropey for Arsenal. That's fine - but not the point I was making about big data. My point was that big negative PSxG figures can't just be dismissed as easily as some (JRG for example) would like.
You don't think keeping the ball away from the keeper as well as they did would have helped?Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
I don't think data can be dismissed either but I think you can read too much into it too.
If Bazunu was our best player in Amsterdam, he was our best player in Amsterdam, no more no less. He played very well. I think some here will only say so through gritted teeth.
You've pivoted to shot stopping now. You said he was playing badly all season. In a team that went 25 games unbeaten. Unbelievable effort from the other 10 lads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
Why the hyperbole? Say his shot stopping needs to improve and your prefer Kelleher right now.
A casual read of the Southampton forum shows you his uptick in form and the recent downturn. He has plenty of fans and critics and they have all had their moment in the sun this season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Pivoted? Its literally the only thing ive commented on. Whats hyperbolic about mentioning his shot stopping numbers being as bad as they are? is it not a worry? it should bem, especially after relegation when youd have hoped it would improve.
This is what you said earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
I've no problem with the shot stopping numbers. They definitely tell a story and you're right to say it's concerning. No issue there.
But he's been playing well this season for long stretches which is encouraging. You don't go on a 25 match unbeaten run with a bad goalkeeper.
Even if he was in the middle of his good stretch of form I'd play Kelleher now though. Kelleher is doing it at a higher level.
Bazunu is already a very good keeper who will only get better. Ridiculous that it is being suggested otherwise.
Kelleher has taken advantage of some good fortune to now stake an appropriate claim for the starting spot and is showing himself to be capable of handling the pressure and performing well over a few games in a row.
Most definitely think it is time to give him his shot to win the Irish #1 jersey but I also hope that the issues that have prevented him from staking a claim until now are addressed somehow through a move to be the starter at another club or that he plays so well that he becomes the first choice for Liverpool even when Allison is back.