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Some good points about asking for a slice of the betting tax if at the same time saying clubs can't benefit from betting via sponsorship. I'm unsure if the restrictions on alcohol brands had had an impact - presume deals like Rascals/Pats; Bohs/Porterhouse Sligo/White Hag? work well. Some cracking jerseys with drink sponsorship back in the day - CCFC/Guinness/Beamish Bohs/Bass Dundalk/Harp.
Waterford had local brew Hoffmans lager as shirt sponsors back in the 80's and it's considered a classic shirt with some fans getting retro versions of it even now. UCD had Budweiser at some stage too.
The gambling sponsors here don't seem to be in your face as much as the Premier League ones with flashing advertising boards and regular ads on tv during matches urging you to gamble
For about 20 years - 1985 to 2005 or soQuote:
Originally Posted by trevy
We had Kaliber before that (alcohol free!)
Not my first good auld rant on this but it is a topic or particular interest for me but at least I wont go off on the comparitave pointless methods of the 'war on drugs'.....888 could be a phone company to me or Mr Green a veggie man.
If we are serious about dealing with societal issues on gambling then we ban horse and dog racing. I dont think Im projecting here that the attraction to horse racing is different to football or tennis etc. with exceptions, and is not rooted in being awe struck by the guile and talent of the mount or jockey - (try getting Paddy Powers top 10 most famous race horses just as quick test, even i got red rum and shergar, dogs??? something Bob is as far as i got compare to sports of similar economics or even that last 10 GAA foty).
People that are vulnerable to destructive gambling are (sounding very blunt)generally identified as predisposed to psychological addiction and or are from fairly well defined socioeconomic groupings. With this in mind it is not an issue that can be piecemealed in to the background for another day, one size fits all rubbish. Lip service efforts only undermine future proper and extensive efforts and this issue is a developing one as technology increases access to a lot more people than the high street bookies. Restricting razmataz shop fronts makes sense, arguably branding on club gear, enforcable age restriction, banning adds on Cheltenham where people are jumping up and down screaming with their bookies chit in hand, but its almost whats the point in that when the problem is predominantly online, smartphone based, and for example when ye watch a live EPL game theres very enticing live odds wagering with a celebrity practically imploring people to have a punt. By all means deal with the issues at hand in every way that matters but make it count 1st time, across all eccentricities of the gambling industry, users and make an actual difference rather than follow the outdated modalities of other connected socio-health mitigations.
Past examples are very closely linked to this, we've known for decades that cigarettes are bad for public health, cost a fortune to the health service and tax payer. People say things like the public purse couldnt do without takes on tobacco but it is a net cost to society. Now public health wornings in conjunction with the smoking ban, scarily 2 decades ago, with increased pricing, proper policing of sales to minors, and punitive measures for flouting the law, widespread public support iresspective for a vocal and vested interest minority and we have significant falls in the number of smokers, still a way to go though. Next up the issue of vaping among our youth and that public health disaster coming a decade or so down the road - evidence of this is already jumping out in both acute and primary heathcare.
The alcohol example, restricted by age, advertisemant and sponsorship restrictions, years of public health campaigns, lowering limits, zero safe levels of consumption (like smoking a proven carcinogen) - anecdotally I felt drink driving campaigns worked and public attitude seemed to have changed but lafter an initial fall stats plateued with 38% of road fatalities involving alcohol - just road fatalities!! hundreds arrested each week and they are the one just caught. €4billion annual bill for destructive consumption habits just in healthcare never mind policing etc. I like, pardon the term, of the more recent method of referencing stats in Disability Adjusted Life Years (DALY) and annually almost 65,000 years are lost in Ireland to 'risky' alcohol consumptionand and this with more kitchen sinks than any LoI club could muster thown at the problem. A Lancet review of the impact on initiatives such as the type proposed on gambling company sponsship found... '(initiatives) can improve alcohol-related knowledge and awareness.....the available evidence does not appear to reduce consumption'. But 'Campaigns may have an indirect effect on behaviour by providing support for other policies more likely to reduce alcohol consumption'. It is this latter finding that needs to be looked at and isolated in greater detail and applied rather than the tried and tested and largely failed precedence we have. (Some people will find this too much state intrusion but novel deterrants to drink driving or speeding, the Finnish access tax records and issue fines according to wealth so it hits where it hurts while not disproportionately penalising possibly the more vulnerable either, engagement with appropriate health services can be mandated, and hard hitting education courses thrown in for the young or ignorant. Just a small example of a possibly better thought out process).
I'm not saying that problem gambling should be ignored and people abandoned, do we even have capacity in support services to assist people at risk, for treatment, or reduce relapse. Im udoubtedly labouring the point here but these issues are too complex to just offer a nod to things and then start patting on the back for a job thought well done. Has there been engagement with the people most affected even? Will any potential proposed ban be in consulation with appropriate public health groups or will it be a publicity ploy. Not a rival supported dig but someone like Conor Hoey pontificating about such an issue without understanding or even acknowledging the broader complexities and needs, sweeping gestures, well it just does more damage than good however well intended. I wouldnt rail against any legitimate efforts to improve things for our league supporters and needs but at the very least lets not have clubs or the league make decisions with a presuption that they know what is all good without talking to those at the coalface.
Ha after my rant on alcohol consumption bad habits....Hoffmans was Irish?? It used to be sold in my old SU in London for 50p (noughties era not the flipping 50s) cause it was absolutely rank, students bought it by the lorry load but the bar probably made a real wedge on blackcurrant cordial trying to disguise the taste. One chuckle I had in Oriel Park volunteering in the Lilywhite Lounge back in the day was running out of Harp on a match night, was told to put on Carlsberg kegs and say nothing - bunch of people came up after praising the 'Best pint of Harp ever'. Sooo the pwoer of suggestion....not sure Ive said that out loud before as its as close to sacrilege as youll get in Dundalk.Quote:
Originally Posted by trevy
I remember that one, Waterford possibly had light pinstripe blue top too, it was a strong lager too if I recall. Dundalk had Harp for a very long time, 86/87 to 2002, final outing was winning FAI Cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by trevy
Rovers also had Powers Whiskey, pretty sure Cobh had beamish too (Sligo might have it also), Derry had Smithwicks a long time too if I recall.
Waterford / Hoffmans, I was at a FAI Cup QF game in Kilkochan Park, 86, WU got to the final, always recall the attendance as easy to remember, 5454.
Derry's Smithwick's jerseys were great (see my avatar). There an Umbro one that's particularly good. Think the green works well on the stripes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry 'da' Wyse
Hoffmans sounded German but was made in Waterford in the brewery near the quay(which is now a whiskey distillery). It hasn't been made in years which is probably a good thing as by all accounts it gave people a terrible hangover.
Wasn't there proposals a few years ago that all alcohol sponsorship would be banned from sports jerseys but I see some GAA clubs still sponsored by pubs? It must not have been implemented.
Is a pub an alcohol sponsorship? Or would it be classed as a venue sponsorship? A lot of pubs serve food now and all restaurants serve alcohol, all concert venues serve alcohol and many run club nights? At what point does it change from a venue sponsorship to an alcohol sponsorshipQuote:
Originally Posted by trevy
That's a fair point. I wouldn't have any issue with pubs sponsoring teams and not bothered either if an alcohol brand sponsored a team. Alcohol consumption has actually dropped a good bit in Ireland in last 20 years.
I think the final score on LOI clubs gambling related jersey sponsorship (hate that word 'shirt') is 5 then.
Dundalk 2024- ? (888 Casino) ...........and 2021-2023 with Bet Regal.
Rovers - 888 (2022)
Bohs (Mr Green) not sure on seasons but at least 3?
Pats - Paddy Power - Mid 2010's etc - at least 2 seasons?
Waterford - Bet 21 and Casino?, combined, at least 3 seasons.
Dundalk the sole one in 2023 (not in 2022) but only one again in 2024 and probably for at least 2 more years unless others follow suit, but its unclear if there is an appetite but money offered could change things.
Had a quick google on thisQuote:
Originally Posted by oriel
Pats was 2007-2009
Bohs was 2014-2019
Rovers was 2021-2022
Waterford was 2017-2019 (2 of those years with 21Bet and 1 with Spin Casino
in general is there limited brand recognition of these sponsors compared to others previously like Harp, Beamish et al, Fyffes, Pepper etc., as international brands? Paddy Power the exception. Or is it generational for want of a better term. I probably knew 888 from general Sky Sports advertisement, Bet Regal, Bet 21 could be all the same to me. 888 and Rovers had the horse signing thing but did the online betting sponsors openly encourage downloading apps, or offer free bets to supporters in a hook them effort. You do see red top papers giving free tokens for betting during racing festival meets. Bet Regal got a nod as sponsor on Dundalk FC media channels at the end of interviews but was there active selling of their product beyond just the brand presence on the jersey/club media/Oriel Park. I genuinely dont know not being home much recently. BoyleSports were often touted as Dundalk FC sponsors with the HQ based in Dundalk, they sponsored Louth GAA and while John Boyle and company staff were often in Oriel Park (a bar tab could be as big as some actual sponsors) they were just seen as a GAA company but are sponsoring Crusaders up north and are all over Coventry, club and city.
I wonder if it worth considering how the LOI is becoming more family friendly in these kinds of debates? I know that when I think of football clubs there are certain brands/sponsors that I inevitably think of e.g. Bohs/Des Kelly, Pat's/Autoglass, Rovers/Woodies and I'm sure there's more if I put real thought into it. The point is I know that these were sponsors of the teams at some point during my childhood or early adolescence. With the exception of Bohs/Des Kelly no other sponsor is currently a jersey sponsor for the club. These sponsorships can build a lasting impression for many people and while gambling sponsorships on the hole might not affect match going adults they may stick with the younger supporters for longer than we realise. TLDR "Won't somebody please think of the children!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
I never became a Harp Lager fan, was never a good lager except when there was nothing else, awful hangover Im told until recipie was changed as a 1994 (I think) World Cup celebration brew. The brand sticks, it was all I knew as a Dundalk sponsor from mid 80s to 2002 so from kid to early 20s. Its crops up as part of retro jerseys and not really as beer association. Oscars Bar was a brief sponsor also.
Hangover off Harp is absolutely cat. Blows the head clane off yaQuote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Limerick FC in 2018 had BetSat.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
Pint o' Harp and a packet o' dates there Lawrence.
Yeah and Pigs might fly!Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Thanks, either didn't realise or had forgotten, so that makes 6 out of the 20 clubs, or 30% who had a betting main sponsor at one stage, with Dundalk the only one now left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer
Casino 888 not yet officially confirmed, it will be soon though as new kit launch meant to be this week.