Printable View
In a word, no.
The longer they are in jail, the easier it might be for a lesson to be made that you cannot break the law.
I don't care what they did, what they were doing it for, what they hoped to gain or who they were against, I have no sympathy for them. :rolleyes: :mad:
And I will continue using Shell. Because they have what I want at that particular time (I use Shell very rarely anyway).
Sorry my mistake; all that means is that all the EU countries are to cowardly to impose unilateral sanctions against the most brutal regime in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Student Mullet I made that post in reply to Pete,
With regards to it happening in MAyo the Irish government has not let them get that far but has imprisoned men for protesting against Shells conduct where the Nigerian government executed men for protesting against Shells conduct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Proportionally the actions being protested against are different, yes, but the principle remains and the fact remains that the Rossport 5 are not criminals.
same here. I also avoid american petrol companies due to their support for Bush.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Two mistakes here Liam; the government cannot imprison men only the courts can. Secondly they were not imprisoned for protesting but for blocking a public roadway and refusing to stop when instructed to by the court.Quote:
Originally Posted by liam88
Unlike Nigeria we have a democratic system. When someone takes action outside the law they are punished by the courts. That is what happened here. The men can leave prison as soon as they agree to abide by the law in future. If they don't like the law they should vote for a politician in favour of changing it.
The farmers were not jailed (or indeed felt no sanctions) when they blockaded the meat plants and refused to stop when instructed by the court.Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
The government had a major role in this fact.
1. The government has a major role to play in this just like they did adversley in monutdfc's example. The men are being sould-out for the money from Shell which leads to.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
2. ....blocking the public roadway was their form of protest. Why should they have to abide by an unjust law which means that their land is taken from them and a potentially dangerous pipeline in laid near their homes. What if it was your land and your children who were in danger from the pipeline? The people who are going to be affected by this are the people of Rossport who overwhemingly support the 5. The government, court judges of Shell officials will not have to live with a pipeline running through their land.
Justice and Shell just don't go together as was proved back in Nigeria. Nothing has changed and it's the same old story just in Ireland and with toned down levels of corruption, slavery and murder. Still these men have been imprisoned for standing up for their rights which is wrong wherever it is the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anto1208
Why didn't this all go through the normal planning process ??
It is all above board then it should have go through the same process as everyone else ??
[QUOTE=liam88]
2. ....blocking the public roadway was their form of protest. Why should they have to abide by an unjust law which means that their land is taken from them and a potentially dangerous pipeline in laid near their homes. What if it was your land and your children who were in danger from the pipeline? The people who are going to be affected by this are the people of Rossport who overwhemingly support the 5. The government, court judges of Shell officials will not have to live with a pipeline running through their land.
QUOTE]
a fair point it is potentially dangerours but so are esb cables that run along and over famers land all across the country , do bord gais not have pipes all over the country , in fact i have it in my house there for i have potentially dangerous cables and pipes outside my house ,
its just the way it is .
also did ye hear on the news 191 workers were laid off from the site , thats 191 people out of work , that cant feed there families because of these 5 idiots . thats who im worried about not some farmers field blowing up in a freek accident , that could just as easily be him hitting esb cables .
Boycott the cheapest petrol around? Are you mad? We get ripped off so much in this country I'm sticking to the cheapest - Shell it is so.
P.S. I don't drive, the better half does and she says Shell and she wears the trousers :)
It is possible to protest without blocking a roadway. Protesting is legal, blocking a road is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by liam88
If the men feel the law is unjust they should vote for someone in favour of changing it. They are disrespecting me and the million or so Irish people who voted for the laws by breaking them.
In matters of pipeline construction I'll take the word of the several independant sets of experts who have declared the pipe safe ahead of five farmers from Mayo who presumably have no experience in pipeline construction.
Bottom line, there is 2 billion euro worth of gas down there and it is increadably selfish of these men to expect us to leave it there because they find bringing it ashore inconvenient.
Celtic Fuels are the cheapest i thought ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldini98
anyway ... try www.irishfuelprices.com and go to Motor fuel ... and check your area !!
I saw a piece on RTE where the Project Engineer for Shell was arriving on site. One of the protestors was demanding he accompany the Engineer on site. Shell guy asked told the protestor he couldn't come on site cos he not trained & was dangerous construction site to unqualified people. Protestor asked Shell guy was he hiding something that he wouldn't let him on (private land) site. :rolleyes:
This is the usual nimby attitude in this country. Its the same way people complain about mobile phone masts but want good phone reception, protest against wind farms but also maon about pollution from coal/oil burning power plants.
This country has one of the slowest planning systems in the Western World & there are plenty of legal means for people to protest & block development.
BTW irish petrol distributers like Emo, Maxol etc (same for Tesco) do not have their own oil refineries as they get their refined oil from variety of oil companies including Shell, Esso, Texaco so buying your fuel at their pumps is as likely to put money into Shells back pocket as anyone else.
Less money. If we're to go with this argument, we should all use Eircom for our telephone and Internet services because the OLO's have to use their lines and exchanges anyway. And we all know how cool monopolies are.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
There's no doubt that some of the protestors have been silly. But by the same token some people in the oil companies are being silly too. There's no doubt some of the protestors have broken the law. But by the same token so have some of the oil companies. On a lot bigger scale.
Sauce for the goose.
adam
Going with Adam here yes a bt of your money might end up with Shell anyway but for example if you spend €20 filling up it is the choice between €5 to Shell or €20 to shell.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
As a general rule i prefer facts that stupid protestor stunts. I think the majority of people realise that only those 5 men can decide when they leave jail.
Years ago people in this country backed every stupid protest, now they seem more discerning looking for facts before backing...
I agree pete, but it would appear in this case that a lack of facts is at issue, i.e. that the technology being used for the pipeline is unproven. That gives some people cause for concern, and, obviously, cause for protest.
As to the method of their protest, I have to admit I'm finding it difficult to make a decision because of the abundance of "facts" being presented on the matter.
I disagree on the "discerning" comment. As someone who's managed campaigns, I'd use the words laziness. Discerning doesn't come into it.
adam
Without going off topic what i was trying to suggest is that back in the 80's any state employees who protested automatically get public backing but not that easy anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
I agree irish people are lazy & protest doesn't come easy.
I'm probably just a cynic who doesn't take sides easily.
I'm pretty uncomfortable with the entire project from conception to execution.
Why do I get the feeling that if this gas field was just off the Dutch coast rather than the Irish coast -then the Dutch government wouldn't have signed away a massive national natural resource for a song to a private company with intentions of selling back to the Dutch public that which is theirs already -and for not a penny less than market value.
There's an old saying that goes something like "If the Dutch had Ireland they'd all be rich and if If the Irish had Holland we'd all drown"
Those five guys are in a catch 22. On the one hand the courts have to be respected and their contempt has to be purged -on the other - I'm certain if I was one of them I couldn't give an undertaking NOT to protect my family, my livelihood and that which was mine.
The protestors have been protesting long before the jailing of the 'Rossport five' and this includes the planning of this project. If they apologise to the courts they will have a criminal record against their name and these people are far from criminals. They are standing up for not only their livelihood but also the safety of their families.
The problem is that the gas that will be coming through their land is high pressuised 'dirty gas' which is then cleaned on land. The land on which these pipes are been laid is bogland and this has never been done anywhere in the world ever. Bogland is very unstable. All the protestors want is for the gas to be refined out at sea where it is safer.
Is a criminal not someone who breaks the law, and if the court instructs you to do something and you disobey, is that not breaking the law?
I am also sick of the amount of NIMBY's in this country, it is getting ridiculous. All you need is one rabble-rouser in a community to spout a load of unqualified rubbish and you will get a load of people believing this nonsense. I remember about 20 years ago the Tara mast was being erected in Meath and there were massive protests, and claims saying that Meath would be like Chernobyl (sp), and become a waste land, because there would be so much radiation. 20 years later and there is not so much as a three eyed fish in the area. These statements were taken as fact by the protestors at the time though.
These men would not accept an independent study on the issue, unless it rules their way.
They deserve to stay in prison until they accept the law.