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Well I'm trying to work out what your point is. Why should they have a progression plan for example? They want the best first-team squad, that's all that matters really.
Celtic are a Premier League-standard club. How many 18-year-olds players have gone from LoI into a Premier League team lately?
No, not that good but obviously our players going there aren't that good either. Celtic are miles ahead of where our players normally make a breakthrough though. You'd need to have the talent of someone like Aiden Mcgeady to make an impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by CSAD
Only in a Celtic fans mind they are. I don’t think even having that would matter, it’s not even talent but just the overall package. They constantly don’t look ready at all for that level, I remember Lawal in last pre season when he looked the most ready from their underage set up, looked totally out of his depth at senior level. That sadly seems to be a common trend at Celtic, and true a an extremely talented player could defy those odds but the issue with that is any player with that talent will stay 1000 km away from Celtic.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
Well conveniently picking the best foreign players they have as a way to prove your point isn’t wise. “Why should they have a progression plan”…**** me did you really just say that, try it again with a straight face.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Maybe in a Celtic fans mind they are…but many have their head shoved right up their own hole they are still licking their esophagus. No amount of chatter will ever make them a Premier league standard club.
Your issue seems to be with Celtic. They're a fantastic and massive club but that makes it hard to get into their senior set up. Our players who've gone there might just not be up to it, we might have to accept that. It's the same as at premier League teams, it's very hard to make a breakthrough. Is that the fault of academies in England? No, it's just extremely difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by CSAD
Nope, genuine question - why should they have a progression plan when they can buy in better players? That's the way of the game these days. None of the Irish players I mentioned have exactly proven Celtic wrong in their judgement of them. If you're good enough, they'll take notice (or maybe try cash in). If you're not good enough, why should Celtic care? Kenny unfortunately seems to have struggled at Queen's Park, so was hardly about to move up to the Celtic first team.Quote:
Originally Posted by CSAD
(Though that said, wiki says four of the current Celtic squad came through the youth team - though obviously that's over quite a while and gives fairly low odds for any given academy player, but for a senior squad it's probably a reasonable return)
We've had a chart on here many times (and here it is again) before showing a rough evaluation of various European leagues based on Euro results and Celtic/Rangers come out as lower mid-table Premier League sides in it. I think that's quite reasonable.
Wait wait wait… let me guess…you’re a Celtic fan?!Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Nope that’s not the way the game is these days, put trying to explain this is like trying talk logic with a Shamrock Rovers fan so I won’t even waste my time.
Next you can explain to me why little to no Scottish u21 players play for Celtic either? I’m noticing a pattern here.
When Kenny joined he scored 11 goals at Sligo, after a year at Celtic he is struggling at QP. What exactly has his time at Celtic done to help progress his development.
You think 4 is a reasonable return…just wow, just please don’t put the bar too high!
Only a deluded Celtic or Rangers fan actually believe their PL quality.
But anyway one question that should be asked for all this, if Celtic don’t have a progression plan then why the flying **** are these young players being advised to go there? Do their agents have a screw loose, are they being given a payment to send them to Celtic or are Celtic just lying to these youngsters and being made promises they never intend to keep.
Not a Celtic fan. But I have been trying to bring some facts into this (Celtic haven't really rejected anyone who's come back to bite them; a direct comparison of various results has them around lower mid-table PL) and you're just spouting off. It's not helpful.
Yep, I think four is a reasonable return. Here's more facts - it's what Liverpool have at the moment for example (Jones, Kelleher, Alexander-Arnold, Phillips). Villa have two (Archer and Ramsey). Sheffield United have about six (Sharp, Arblaster, Norrington-Davies, Gordon, Jebbison, Sachdev - most of whom have played around 10 games and will probably move on before long) How many do you think they have?
I've already said that it's quite possible it's not a great place for a young player to go to. I could see it being a tough one to turn down though when you're at Sligo. How has his time at Celtic progressed him? Maybe he was a one-season wonder at Sligo? You don't seem to be willing to face any outcome here other than that Celtic are at fault.
That’s beacause they have ****ed up most of these players careers before they’ve even started.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Nice to see you are keeping the bar nice and high. The difference is the teams you mentioned are in the English football system, where you need to spend money, imagine how low the number would be if Celtic played in England?
“Quite possible” it’s simply not a good place, say it how it is, the evidence is there for all to see. This is the point in having good agents, the agents should advise them to stay well clear like I’d imagine Scottish agents do with their clients. I would buy the one season wonder if he was the only one, but like I’ve said there’s a pattern emerging which Kenny is the latest addition to.
Celtic are at fault though, a player playing regularly in the LOI is sent to play the Scottish 5th division for a year…how is that aiding is development? No wonder he went downhill so quickly. How you can see all this along with the previous examples I’ve given and still defend Celtic proves you really are a devoted Celtic fan.
What - you don't need to spend money in Scotland? Bizarre logic. It's almost as if pushing the club to get into the Champions League isn't a factor for them. I hope Celtic have the receipts for the £23m they spent in the summer; they should get a refund and fo with Kenny, Afolabi and Connell instead. Did you know Kenny scored 11 goals for Sligo? He's shown he's ready (though you've never clarified what that actually means). And it would clearly have no impact on their team at all.
I'm aware I'm not a devoted Celtic fan - or any sort of Celtic fan - so the fact you keep throwing that accusation out proves to me that you're just interested in a bit of a random rant rather than any sort of discussion about it.
Come back to me when one of the Irish players rejected by Celtic does something to make them regret their call maybe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
for celtic to be getting rid this soon it screams bad talent ID on celtics part. thinking a player was either better than they are (now) or the player not having enough upside for development (in the future). this one shines a bad light on celtics scouting for me.
people are quick to bring up afolabi but rarely mention he was let go from southampton the summer of that flash in the pan euro u19 tournament. celtic did what a lot of senior teams do and took a punt on a guy after a bright 3/4 games of tournament football. those moves rarely if ever work out.
He wasn't let go, they offered him a new contract and he rejected it
he said at the time it was a shock to be released. doesnt sound like a guy who rejected a contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Towards the end of the most recent English football season, however, the 19-year-old was told he was surplus to requirements at Southampton.
“It was a bit of a shock, because I thought I was doing well. They saw other aspects and probably favoured someone else. I’m not in control of that.
Yep, and Lee O'Connor was let go by United, Celtic took a cheap punt on both of them, not a big deal for them. Connell a different story, but Kenny wasn't at the level to make an impact at Celtic from the little i saw of him, plenty of time for him to rebuild though. Poor advice to make the move to Celctic, particularly Kenny who had other options and who had seen the record of the other young Irish players who went there. Frimpong didnt need to get loaned to a pub team to develop, if you're good enough you'll get a chance. None of the Irish lads were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
He signed a 5-year deal in January?Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I think mipo rejected a contract with man u to go to the hammers as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Nope that’s you putting words in my mouth again, the issue here is you comparing English and Scottish teams and think the two are on par with each other. They spent 23 million to get pumped in the CL, great work. The issue here is spending money is fine if you at least have the results to back it up and quite frankly winning a 2 team league I’m not quite sure makes up for it especially when you add in their terrible record at bringing through young players. Also you conveniently move the goal posts and only mention a-few Irish players but then ignore the fact they brought through little to no Scottish players or any nationality for that matter. It’s a trend that you seem to side step as you refuse to accept that Celtic could do anything wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I will give Celtic , and Rangers, some credit though. I admire their confidence despite the absolute embarrassment they served up in Europe this season, I wish I had that confidence in life.
Nah you are, you sound just like all the other fans from Celtic I’ve spoken to. One click on these fans account and you’ll find they have a Celtic profile picture or Celtic posts in the past, sadly I can’t do that with you.
It’s really pointless even trying to explain this to you.
It could also possibly highlight that Kenny realizes he made a mistake and wants to get out of there asap. A good sign at least as he appears to have more common sense than his predecessors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
But that’s the issue at Celtic. There’s no proper system at bringing through these players, if a player gets through it’s almost by accident than design. That’s why a young Irish player in particular must avoid like the plague.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exgrad