12 Team Premier Does not work

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

Ah I thought you were comparing them with each other.

Yeah fair point then.

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.....although granted both were on Bank holiday weekends.....by coincidence - not sure what effect that has

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Originally Posted by wws

.....although granted both were on Bank holiday weekends.....by coincidence - not sure what effect that has

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Meant probably extra 100-150 City fans last week.

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

More to the point, you're comparing an average mid way through the season with one by the end of last season. Attendences will rise for the last series of matches when the season is reaching its climax and bring the average up.

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Was wondering who'd have the sense to raise that point. Definitely a very valid point. I would hope that the attendances this year will in fact end up showing a slight increase.

Whatever about the other points, let's look at the attendances (being my baby and all that! :) )

The attendance thread shows a decrease in average Premier attendance of about 3 to 5%. Given so few official figures, that can't be classed as a decrease - that's static given margin of error. Cork fans' huge overestimates last season alone would have caused last year's figure to be too high.

Some crowds are way up - UCD, Bray and Harps are up 40% to 150%. This is because of the expanded Premier. This can only be good for the clubs concerned. Why harm them by taking this away?

Some crowds are down for non-footballing reasons - Dublin City were relegated and are homeless; Dundalk are also homeless. If they were playing at home, the First Division average would be higher this year.

In any case, in the lack of official figures for last year and this year (and previous years), we can't make any conclusive conclusion on attendances.

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Originally Posted by pete

Attendances are down.
Quality is worst.
2 tier Premier Division.
10 team 1st Division worse.

I can't think of any positives to the 12 Team Premier aside from City top of the League ;)

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You don't have to play the same teams as much.

Plus your point bout Shels doing worse in Europe is ********. Steaua are better then Hajduk.

When you look at attendances that colleges in the USA get for American Football and Basketball, I am surprised at just how small UCD's attendances are.

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Originally Posted by superfrank

You don't have to play the same teams as much.

Plus your point bout Shels doing worse in Europe is ********. Steaua are better then Hajduk.

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......or Hajduk were never good in the first place??? A lot of people overestimated that team here forgetting that similar standard Croatians had already suffered the same fate to a part time pats side two years previous. The facts are that Croatian football was/is in decline and shels made little breakthrough last year, they scored two precious away goals in crotia - so did pats - different cup, same standard of oppossition.

I just wonder now how Shels business plan holds up to the euro reality rather than the fantasy.....

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Originally Posted by superfrank

You don't have to play the same teams as much.

Plus your point bout Shels doing worse in Europe is ********. Steaua are better then Hajduk.

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Hajduk got whooped 5-0 at home (i think) last night

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Originally Posted by ThatGuy

When you look at attendances that colleges in the USA get for American Football and Basketball, I am surprised at just how small UCD's attendances are.

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Why? We obviously don't have the same college culture as them. College sport is the second tier of sport under the NFL, NBA etc. over there and they compete against other colleges representing massive catchment areas. It's not comparable at all. Don't forget the Irish public's general apathy towards the eL compared with the attitude of Americans towards their own sports and the attdences their sports draw at the top level.

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Originally Posted by fosterdollar

Hajduk got whooped 5-0 at home (i think) last night

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By Hungarians Debrecen.

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Originally Posted by pete

Last season there were few foregone results but this season is clear divide in the league & at least 2 to 3 certain results every week. I just don't remember so many one sided contests in the last few seasons.

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Rubbish.

UCD have drawn twice with Shels and Bohs, beaten Derry and Drogheda and drawn with Cork.
Rovers have beaten Shels, Drogheda and Derry and drawn with Bohs.
Bray have drawn with Shels, Drogheda and Cork.
Waterford have beaten Bohs and drawn with Cork.
Pat's have drawn with Derry and a couple of others, I think.

By definition, top half teams will do better against bottom half teams, but there's no evidence that there's a marked gulf in quality developing.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Rubbish.

UCD have drawn twice with Shels and Bohs, beaten Derry and Drogheda and drawn with Cork.
Rovers have beaten Shels, Drogheda and Derry and drawn with Bohs.
Bray have drawn with Shels, Drogheda and Cork.
Waterford have beaten Bohs and drawn with Cork.
Pat's have drawn with Derry and a couple of others, I think.

By definition, top half teams will do better against bottom half teams, but there's no evidence that there's a marked gulf in quality developing.

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And Longford.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Rubbish.

UCD have drawn twice with Shels and Bohs, beaten Derry and Drogheda and drawn with Cork.
Rovers have beaten Shels, Drogheda and Derry and drawn with Bohs.
Bray have drawn with Shels, Drogheda and Cork.
Waterford have beaten Bohs and drawn with Cork.
Pat's have drawn with Derry and a couple of others, I think.

By definition, top half teams will do better against bottom half teams, but there's no evidence that there's a marked gulf in quality developing.

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And to be fair to UCD they deserved 6 points from the Bohs games.

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Originally Posted by ThatGuy

When you look at attendances that colleges in the USA get for American Football and Basketball, I am surprised at just how small UCD's attendances are.

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The collegiate cultures in the US and Ireland are polls apart.

Firstly America has a big tradition of people going to college near where they are from - probably due to the expense involved in US college attendance. This has created a very strong sense of affinity between town and gown - even for people who have themselves not gone to their local Uni. This therefore creates a very large potential market for college sports teams in the US. This is not the case in Ireland - the people of Cork, Limerick and Galway, for example, feel little connection to the Unis there.

Secondly - college sport in the US is extremely lucrative and competitive. It really is big business, particularly in the chunks of the country where Pro-ball is under-represented (e.g. Notre Dame in Indiana, Gainsville in Florida). The standard is extremely high, many of the stadiums are huge and as good as the pro-ball ones, and there's a lot of prestige and money involved. UCD and the Eircom League could not be further from this.

There is also a peculiarly Irish lack of identity with one's own Uni. Every weekend it seems that the vast majority of UCD students feck-off back up the country to see their mammys/girlfriends/boyfriends/muckers. This appears to be the norm, not the exception. For comparison - this would be extremely strange if not unique to do at an English Uni (going home every weekend would see you considered a bit of a loser). This seems to do very little to foster any sort of pride in the college that people attend in ireland (with the elitist exception of Trinity).

In summary, and to generaliase, UCD students don't particularly feel any strong identity/affinity with their college, all feck-off home at the weekend when games are on anyway, and the standard of fare on offer is hardly world class, so it's entirely understandable that their situation differs from the like of American college teams.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The collegiate cultures in the US and Ireland are polls apart.

Firstly America has a big tradition of people going to college near where they are from - probably due to the expense involved in US college attendance. This has created a very strong sense of affinity between town and gown - even for people who have themselves not gone to their local Uni. This therefore creates a very large potential market for college sports teams in the US. This is not the case in Ireland - the people of Cork, Limerick and Galway, for example, feel little connection to the Unis there.

Secondly - college sport in the US is extremely lucrative and competitive. It really is big business, particularly in the chunks of the country where Pro-ball is under-represented (e.g. Notre Dame in Indiana, Gainsville in Florida). The standard is extremely high, many of the stadiums are huge and as good as the pro-ball ones, and there's a lot of prestige and money involved. UCD and the Eircom League could not be further from this.

There is also a peculiarly Irish lack of identity with one's own Uni. Every weekend it seems that the vast majority of UCD students feck-off back up the country to see their mammys/girlfriends/boyfriends/muckers. This appears to be the norm, not the exception. For comparison - this would be extremely strange if not unique to do at an English Uni (going home every weekend would see you considered a bit of a loser). This seems to do very little to foster any sort of pride in the college that people attend in ireland (with the elitist exception of Trinity).

In summary, and to generaliase, UCD students don't particularly feel any strong identity/affinity with their college, all feck-off home at the weekend when games are on anyway, and the standard of fare on offer is hardly world class, so it's entirely understandable that their situation differs from the like of American college teams.

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True - I'm a big follower of American sports, and college teams are akin to "club" teams, with NFL, NBA sides then being like "national" teams for a town/city/state.

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Originally Posted by wws

Pats read out official attendances at the end of every game

1800 v Shels top of table
1300 v Cork top of table

we hoped for home crowds in the region of 2,000 this season


attendances are fcked in the club thats honest enough to admit it - anecdotally I can say shels attendances are also muck

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There will always be poor attendances in the NL until the games are played at a civilised time, i.e. not 7.45 on a Friday night, which prevents most away fans from travelling, (except derbies), nor on Sunday afternoons of Bank Holiday weekends which coincide with live GAA tv coverage. No bogball fan is going to watch NL football over it.

I have already stated when and what time that NL games should take place, and in the Premier Division, only Longford and Finn Harps do it, even if the kick-off times are relatively early. If every club fell into line with those two, attendances would improve. Ffs, how many other leagues in Europe play the majority of their games on Friday nights?? :confused: :mad:

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

it was a shock for us to get thumped by Rovers at home.

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Why??

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Secondly - again, how can you say the quality is "worst" (though clearly not as worst as your spelling... :p ;) ) ?

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The collegiate cultures in the US and Ireland are polls apart

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Live by the sword, die by the sword - that should be "poles" :D

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Originally Posted by gufct

is the only future for soccer in this island.Strict enforcement of UEFA Licensing criteria and rules in relation to facilities for players and spectators. The league will prosper if tis is done at the moment its stagnating.

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16 teams would be magic, need the infrastructure though. Galway, Sligo, Limerick and maybe the Kerry League or Mullingar would add a bit more diversity to a Dublin dominated league (not being biased here, I'm a Dub myself). Ten teams was crazy, took the occassion out of special matches like Dublin derbies when there's four a season.

Spot on , DCFC Steve - I'm a researcher in UCD in real life (sometimes) and the football team is next to invisible on campus - I bet if you polled undergrads. at the end of their first year as to how many even know there's a team there you'd get blank looks (actually thats what you get from most of them all the time).

Anyone who is into the EL will generally arrive at UCD with a prior affiliation; but the vast majority of kids there are either D4 Ross O'Carroll- Kelly rugby types or county jersey wearing muckers who probably don't realise there is even football in this country.
Still think the club could do more tho' - it can't be that hard to at least advertise games on campus a bit more

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Originally Posted by sonofstan

Still think the club [UCD] could do more tho' - it can't be that hard to at least advertise games on campus a bit more

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Meh. I've been there and done that with regards putting posters up around college for games. It was done for years. Those that don't get postered over within half an hour of going up get lost in the shouting match that is the posters in Belfield. Your point about having an affiliation before coming to UCD means there's little point anyway. The college papers the last few years have given the team great coverage. Yet when we move away from students to the locality, our fan base immediately starts to grow. Students supporting the team would be great, but unfortunately in reality, the decision not to target the college is a no-brainer.