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My father always told me not to act the príck, cause I was too dim-witted to not have it bite me back on arsse with plenty to spare.
Wiser man than his son, that's for sure.
It's Ian Lawlor I was thinking of, not the lanky gouger off the Cork senior football team.
Mid Match ? !Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
Ah! I had a google and there is an Aaron Maguire at Spurs, a 17-year-old who looks a proper ginger Irish fella, but he's played for both Ireland and English at youth level. He's only 17, so I didn't think he was an option right now!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Lawlor's not getting his game for Dundee and seems to have struggled with the step from English fourth tier up to third tier, so I'd say he's not really an option either.
If the timing of everything had been different I think Kelleher would be #1 right now and would likely hold on to it for a while based on how comfortable he has looked albeit without much to do.
But the way things worked out, Travers messed up his shot and Bazunu ended up getting one and hasn't let us down even though he is now playing at the lowest level of the 3 and making more errors than the other 2, even if Kelleher isn't playing enough for that to be relevant. It's a weird situation.
He's made mistakes you'd expect a 19 year old to make and now we are in a position where we either drop him or stick with him because we think the positives have outweighed the mistakes. If you drop him and another keeper comes in and does worse do you just keep changing? That said, if he can't get back to his earlier club form and his last two games become a trend, then we'll obviously have to switch things up and that case I'd go with Travers who deserves it on form for me. It's really disappointing for me that Kelleher hasn't demanded a move. He needs to play at his age.
I personally think Bazunu might have the highest ceiling of the 3 but it's tinted by the fact he played for Rovers and I saw him doing his thing at age 16. I'm happy for him to continue playing and learning despite mistakes but I completely understand why others think Kelleher or Travers are the more complete article. I do think there's a bit of grass is greener going on though. They are all inexperienced.
I'd also say that my position is that our whole team is a work in progress and I'm absolutely fine with that. They will make mistakes. So I'm ok with a keeper learning things the hard way and gaining as much experience with the team as possible until we are ready to properly challenge for qualification. I want the best keeper ready to go for the euros and I'm ok to wince through a few errors if he isn't quite there now. All 3 look promising but Bazunu is in there now so I'd stick with him pending a bad run.
Kelleher has explained why he’s happy to be where is. No2 at one of the best club sides in the world. He’s working alongside a world class keeper, manager and first rate coaching staff - and getting some game time. Allison has had lengthy spells out with injury in the past, so it’s highly possible he will get more games. Liverpool rate him and are quite happy to pick him for very big games when Allison is not fit - bigger games with more at stake than Ireland have been involved in recently. It’s Klopp and Liverpool’s confidence in him, as well as his performances, that should offer reassurance about his readiness for international football.
Liverpool don’t think he needs loan experience to be ready for big matches. Pep clearly thinks that Bazunu does.
Sure, he's in a great position for his club career but great as it may be, if he was playing he'd be Irelands number 1 now if he's as good as you believe and we all hope. So in the context of this discussion, it's holding him back. He was also unlucky to be injured when he might have gotten the nod to be fair but he may have already had the position locked down if he'd been established at another club.
Pep thinking Bazunu needs to play isn't shocking is it? He's 19. We all think he needs to play don't we? Kelleher took a different path that may end up working out great for him but my point was that if he'd had a loan spell in between 19 and 22 he'd have a better body of work behind him. Relying on Liverpools confidence in him and the associated confidence of Liverpool fans like yourself or John Aldridge is less useful to people like me who don't know much about Liverpool. Karius was Liverpool's #1 at one point wasn't he? :)
I want to see the lad play in tough games to see what he's about. That doesn't mean he isn't or won't be a better option for Ireland.
Thought you’d mention Karius and you could throw in Adrian as another counter example. They were painful lessons in relying on substandard goalkeepers for cover. They went out and bought Allison after Karius and quickly promoted Kelleher when Adrian let them down. Ultimately, the only way to see whether he is ready for international football is to give him a decent number of games. He isn’t going to go on loan so waiting for that to happen is not an option. Nor should he be denied an opportunity simply out of loyalty to a 19 year old who is out on loan in League 1 and making some rather alarming errors. It’s all about opinion, and possibly a bit of Liverpool bias, but my gut tells me, Kelleher will prove to be our long term No 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
What kind of errors was Kelleher making at 19? We dont know because he wasnt playing any football. Bazunus experience that he is gaining now along with the natural talent that he has, I see nothing to suggest that Kelleher is better than him or will be better than him.
Is that a serious question? Even if he was making similar errors to those made by Bazunu of late, he’s not making them now. I think your argument, along with others, actually supports the case that Kelleher is further along in terms of development even though he has not had a loan spell. Bazunu has obvious talent and Pep obviously thinks he needs loan experience to iron out issues that we can all see need attention and development. That sounds like a reason for not rushing into a decision about making him our number 1 .Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Yep all fair but along with Bazunu's errors are some fantastic performances that seem to be ignored to an extent. My point is, we don't know if Kelleher is a great back up or a first choice. He's made the call to stay on the bench and I understand it. But it would have been fantastic for us if this was a no brainer because was first choice already elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
I'd imagine Bazunu will be dropped for Portsmouth's next game and that might give us an opportunity to bring in Travers or Kelleher so he might get that run you're talking about. Thankfully all 3 are young enough that they can suffer a few bad spells here and there as they progress and Ireland should end up with at least 1 great keeper and maybe even a backup as good as.....Kelleher?
He didn't need a loan spell in those years, because he was playing PL2 games every week. Now he's promoted to No. 2, he can step up further at a moment's notice. His next game is at Preston next week, so 3 first team appearances already this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Only 35 more to go to have as many senior appearances at club level as 19 year old Gavin Bazunu then!
In League 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Yes. Playing men's football in in important games behind leaky defences. Where does the PL2 stand?Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
You said he wasn't playing games at 19, and it turns out that yes he was. He's been at Liverpool 5 years. He made his senior team debut in 2018 in a pre season friendly v united, his competitive debut in 2019 and his European Cup debut in 2020. Now he probably doesn't want the instability of jumping from one loan move to the next every year, at lower level clubs, with leaky defences that are not really the standard of European Cup winners. He has played 10 senior games for Liverpool, and impressed every time. When Liverpool qualify out of the European Cup group, he will get gametime at the end of the group phase again.
By contrast, Bazunu will never play a first team game for City. Next year he will be at some other club, making the same mistakes as he has recently. He will be permanently on loan from City until the end of his contract. As for Travers, he got his chance in Serbia, conceded three goals, and we lost. So he will never play for Ireland again.
With three such good goalkeepers should we be allowed to loan one of them ( at least ) out for Cash.
You really can't envision the circumstances where a promising goalkeeper plays for Ireland again, ever?Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Good to see you got your crystal ball back but it paints a grim enough picture. The thread started with 3 promising but unproven keepers to talk about and now two of them should hang up the gloves already. I must reassess everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Kelleher has played a handful of games and done well. My point isn't that he is not our best keeper, just that he he isn't our obvious number 1 one but might be if he'd gotten a season or two of senior football under his belt. Bazunu has had good games and bad. If he'd only played 10 in 5 years he might look like the best keeper in the world.
But look I can absolutely see why people think Kelleher is the best of the three. If you read my earlier post, I said he'd probably be the #1 if not for timing.
If you look at the photo of the 21s from tallaght before the game, he looks closest in height but a smidge smaller than Kayode who is listed at 6’3. He’s definitely smaller than Mark McGuinness at 6’4/6’5 and also smaller than Jake O’Brien (listed height unknown) and well taller than Wright (5’10) and Coventry (5’10)Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
So I’d guess he’s 6’1 or 6’2
Watched the Stoke Bournemouth game the other night, and Travers didn't have much to do. So looked into this a bit more to see if that is a typical evening's work for him. Travers has faced just 34 shots on target from 13 league games, conceding 8 goals. This works out at facing 2.6 shots on target per game, and Travers is conceding a goal every 4.2 shots on target (76% save percentage).
As a comparison, Bazunu has faced 63 shots on target in 13 league games, conceding 18 goals. That's 4.8 shots on target per game, and goal conceded every 3.5 shots on target (71% save percentage). However, if you removed the wobble he has had in the last two league games, his goal against stat is every 4.5 shots (79% shave percentage)(a slightly better stat than Travers who has a stronger defence/ team ahead of him (Bournemouth topping their division, Portsmouth's a lower mid-table)).
The above doesn't say anything about the type of shot on target/ the difficulty of saves/ dealing with crosses and corners etc. But Bazunu is the busier goalie and appears to be doing quite well.
As for Kelleher, he looks calm, composed and confident the few times he has played the last couple of seasons but hasn't really been tested. Because he is not playing it is hard to know if he is still the goalie we saw for the U21s/ league cup games for Liverpool a couple of seasons or if he has genuinely moved up a level.